Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: Cobo on August 14, 2005, 10:03:17 PM
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so i started a new map.
it is:
-1 flag
-2 flags
-koth
-pong
the map is almost done, but half of it is empty and i dont know what else to put.
i have some sshots, here they are...
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Looks good for pong, but you'll need a lot more bunkers and some alternate paths for the other modes.
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im thinking of making like caves or underground tunnels for secondary path.
i have two ideas for the map so tell me which one you like.
here are two screenshots.
those brown things represents the entraces of the caves.
the red line is one idea, the idea is to put 2 caves that goes from the middle to the base.
the blue one is just one cave that goes underground and takes you to the other side. this one might be useless so im thinking maybe the red one.
i could also make all caves to connect.
so....
???
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That would work, except I think you should make the entrance be in the back of the base, like into that little hut thing, otherwise there's still only one main entrance into the base (through the crate pile). The blue path could be useful for confusing the enemy -- you run into the cave an they expect you to come out of the red entrance, but instead you come out in the middle and shoot 'em in the back or something.
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well i dont think it is possible to make the entrace on the hut because the hut is too small.
maybe if i did the entrace on top of the base so that way you just jump to get the flag. but you couldnt go back into the cave.
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I think it would be better to have it so you can easily get into and out of the cave. Perhaps put the entrance right on top of the hut?
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looks good so far
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Let me know when I can look at it.
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well i started to make the caves, i have only done the ones that are 2 so i still have to make the ones that join the caves.
the entrace of the cave that goes to the base looks very unnatural, so i have to work on them a little more.
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looks like a weird golf course...
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golf course??
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i liked the first one now lets play this one
also he added some
"Secrets" they are pretty cool
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im making a final compile so i can release the test, but its taking forever, it has 10016 numportals.
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ahhhhhh!!!!!
the compile doesnt advance.
it stopped on here:
---- vis ----
testlevel = 4
reading C:\bsp\quake2\pball\mapfiles\bok.bsp
reading C:\bsp\quake2\pball\mapfiles\bok.prt
3023 portalclusters
10045 numportals
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (171)
0...1...2...3...
and hasnt advanced
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oh no.
i accidentaly pressed a button and skipped some stuff.
im compiling again
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:) the compiler just advanced a little
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I was wondering that myself -- the map doesn't look complex enough to have that many numportals.
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what exactly are the numportals and how can i reduce them?
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i left the compiler all night so it could finish, when i went to test the map everything was all dark.
that has never happened to me, and i've never worked with lights in my maps i just made light textures.
*edit*
i took 2 screenshots of how the map looked on bsp.
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Um... do you have any lights? lol. If there's no light, it will be all dark. :) Make a small test map and play around with arghrad's sun lighting, then copy your settings over to the full map.
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it has the sky which is a light ;)
i learned to use bsp by reading a tutorial i found somewhere. i dont know how to manipulate lights because i skipped that part :)
but what about the numportals!
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The compiler breaks the map up into "portals." Basically just an area, like a room. Vis uses these portals to determine which areas can be seen from where.
http://www.modsonline.com/Tutorials-read-135.html
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well i think im ready for a test, i havent made many changes to the map because i didnt feel like making them :P
i still need bunkers and entities like ammo and guns spread around the map, maybe i need to put some lights in the caves.
dirty taco said he was going to make those cliffs more real so im just waiting.
http://files.filefront.com/bok/;4067762;;/fileinfo.html
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because i didnt feel like
#1 reason 99% of maps people make for pb2 suck :)
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well i made test 2.
dirty taco helped me a lot and made the map even better(i know i know its hard to believe that my maps can be better ;) )im not gonna telll you how the map looks so you will have to download it and see for yourself.
http://files.filefront.com/bok_test_2zip/;4084777;;/fileinfo.html
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Not working.
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it is working.
one download already!
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No work for me! Could you email it to me? eri3ch@gmail.com.
/me doesn't care if he gets spam. He needs more, in fact.
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Invalid Key or in use or Missing File
Your download key for the requested file is invalid. Download keys are only valid for 48 hours. Once your download is complete, the key is no longer valid. Keys are also only valid for the original server. Additionally this error may be caused because the file was not found on the server.
and
There was an error processing your request; it appears to be invalid or the server could not properly handle your request because the file was not found on the server.
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:/ and cant do attachments either.
well here is another link.
http://www.freewebs.com/cobo_gera/bok-test_2.zip
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ok version 3...
http://www.h4xerz.com/downloads/bok-test_3.zip
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so encouraging.
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/me encourages cobo.
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*cobo feels encouraged.
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Good! Now go MAKE A MAP!
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... did you even downloaded the map ???
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Ok, you really need to do something to cut down on the polygon count, or this is going to be unplayable for a lot of people. For starters, I think the walls of beveled crates are going to have to go. That's just way too many polygons in such a small area. They look kind of cool, but I think you lose more than you gain. Not only will converting them to regular crates reduce the polygons, but it will allow the crate walls to be used as vis blockers. This will be especially useful in the base, where there's some detail that can be blocked off.
Another thing I noticed was that vis worked a little oddly. You'd have one area that was vised well, but then you'd move slightly and half the map would be drawn (see attached screenshots). Using hint brushes should help this, hopefully. The reflected light looks too bright, but the new BSP pack I'm working on should fix that. Also, you need to put some lights in the tunnels.
In KOTH mode, you should create a "hill" entity for that whole upper platform so you don't actually have to be touching the flag. I haven't tested pong mode yet.
Edit: attached screenshots (oops) :-[
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im not sure what causes that :-\
maybe because i made a lot of brushes detail.
i been thinking about adding the lights on the caves for a while...
and what do you mean by "hill" entity?
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You should add some hint brushes. They fix everything.
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Sorry, KOTH hasn't really been documented yet. Simply make a brush entity called "hill", and anybody touching that hill will get points. Also, in KOTH mode, make sure you add some extra spawns outside of the base. Since it isn't round based, spawn camping can be really bad in KOTH mode. Oh, and I noticed grenades were spawing up on the top of the wall. Is this intentional... oh, wait, nevermind. I see what's going on. Hm. That ledge is probably going to have to go, though. The r_speeds are way too high when you're up there, and you can see through the walls, which looks bad and is cheap (I made that mistake in brainstorm). I also think it's screwing with the vis. If you want to post the map, I can try some stuff to improve the r_speeds.
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Hm... How'd you get up there?
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HAHAHAH!
never thought someone would sind out :)
and is the hill entity like "classname"_"hill"?
here is the .map file
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Yeah, you can also do it with a trigger_multiple, but I can't remember all the spawnflags and whatnot you need. I just made a hill entity to make it easier for mappers (like the base entity for the bases -- those actually get converted to trigger_multiples as well).
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Ok, I made some quick changes just to see how it would affect the r_speeds. 2006 portalclusters, 6685 numportals. What was it before? We'll see what it looks like tomorrow. I'm also testing it with the new .wals to see if the help the lighting.
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Sad to see.
Cobo explain or post a demo on how to get up there.
Back door is well lit.
All maps are well lit.
I use the Nvidia 8x apg 64 meg card, I do have to manually turn up gamma on all games, however this is not uncommon.
What is uncommon is jumping beond the average player. Here is one explanation .
There should be at best a demo showing how on each map that have jumps within them that would take remarkable skills to achieve such a jump, with out such documentations, how can you not call it a EXPLOIT.
Really, think about those who are new to the game before you spew subjective material, what is harder to learn??? ...Jumping on this engine or turning up the Gamma on the video card?
Loves~~~~ur thoughts?
**edit please keep in mind my rants are trying to be chronological
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Am I also going to have document, demo and explain every instance which I eliminate you, just to be fair? Why is it that I know the angles a lot better than you or that I can manipulate you and your teammates by feeding a decoy grenade. All of this stuff is out-of-the-box skill coupled with experience. These days, I have very seldom seen people who have extraordinary aim or sense of the game who haven't been able to perform every common jump(castle1 backdoor, getting on top of barrels in arctic, double jumping). It may be too bad that this creates a considerable gap noticed between good players and not-so-good players but that's just one of the realities we have to face.
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Ok, vis is taking forever. DirtyTaco touched this map, didn't he? I guess I'll have to return some of the brushes back to detail.
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Gold that takes a crapload of time to compile.
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Am I also going to have document, demo and explain every instance which I eliminate you, just to be fair? Why is it that I know the angles a lot better than you or that I can manipulate you and your teammates by feeding a decoy grenade. All of this stuff is out-of-the-box skill coupled with experience. These days, I have very seldom seen people who have extraordinary aim or sense of the game who haven't been able to perform every common jump(castle1 backdoor, getting on top of barrels in arctic, double jumping). It may be too bad that this creates a considerable gap noticed between good players and not-so-good players but that's just one of the realities we have to face.
Lol yeah to bad!! That maps were made that way!!!.
So what your saying if you dont know how to jump correctly then you suck period? Why not offer a helpful suggestion, lol jebus.
Hugs if iam wrong!!!!
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So what your saying if you dont know how to jump correctly then you suck period? Why not offer a helpful suggestion, lol jebus.
Hugs if iam wrong!!!!
yes.. if you can't jump, you suck. just like people say other people run way faster than them.. that's just because they're idiots and can't strafe jump. i could run faster than half of the people in DP backwards.
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and.. what helpful suggestion could someone possibly give you?
you just jump..
there's no much to it
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not*
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Sign up so you can edit your posts, please.
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and.. what helpful suggestion could someone possibly give you?
you just jump..
there's no much to it
bah scrafe jumping to go faster is not the issue, its my inability to jump upwards that is confusing.
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Okay, practice that.
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its been 5 freaking years!! perhaps i should start playing with myself :(
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Well, I've been doing a bunch of tweaks to your map -- cleaning it up and improving r_speeds and such.
- Cleaned up ladders.
- Cleaned up misaligned brushes: http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1145.0
- Fixed sun lighting.
- Fixed texture alignment on barrels
- Removed some unnecessary detail
- Fixed the func_walls in pong mode
- Added KOTH hill entity
- Made it easier to get in and out of the base bunker
- Removed your little "secret" ;) and expanded the sky a little to help VIS some.
- Added HINT brushes.
What's left to be done:
- Lights in tunnels
- Jail of some sort
I'm doing a full compile on it now to see how it turns out. If it turns out OK, I'll post it tomorrow so you can make those final changes.
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And the map....
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True -- the tunnels could have some things added without hurting r_speeds (so long as they're not too close to the openings). I'll let cobo do that, though -- his map. I was thinking it might be fun to have jails that came up to windows in the tunnels, so jailers could shoot at live people, but only within a limited area.
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ok i think ill add some rocks in the tunnels and i might add a jail somewhere in the map.
maybe i can add some sort of cave right next to a wall(from the outside)that has a little hole on the wall that went into some sort of structure made of boxes right inside the map, and there could be holes from where players could shoot.
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You could have a jailbreak button, like in Rotez... in the upper turret?
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maybe but wouldnt that open the jails of both team? and i wouldnt like that :P
maybe on the little hut of the bases?
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Too small. Also, be carful if you add any kind of jail to world access, since the r_speeds are already too high. That's why I suggested adding them to the tunnels somewhere, because the tunnel r_speeds are low.
Of course, you could just have a simple jail off on its own with some areas to practice jump tricks or something, too.
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did you fix the flag base thingy stairs going out? super lag :(
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Stairs? You mean ladder? I fixed the ladder in the base huts, yes.
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blah!@!!!!!!1*&&@(*!)!(!
THANKS!!!
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I found a little mistake on the red side...
Here are two screenshots
A very nice map, btw ;)
Screenshot1 (http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4605/sshot1534ba.jpg)
Screenshot2 (http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9071/sshot1528gi.jpg)
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Yeah, we noticed that last night. Thanks for reporting it, though. I fixed it on one side, but I guess I didn't get it all the way fixed on this side.
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;) I think you could work it out... ;)
***edited
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Here is my video card
Nvidia 64 meg 8x apg , viewed on a DIGIview 17" CRT
Here is what a simple tweak of uping gamma on vid card does.
Very common, very helpful. Jitspoe would know more about this.
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Its pretty.
*Edit, I stand corrected.
Jitspoe, You asked why dont I leave it alone. I care bro, just consider me a lumbering oaf that has known a lots of battles :)
Cobo,
Great job!!! This maps borderlines "Antioch" good.
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wow
u really can see something!
anyway i think it still need lighting(it looks pitch dark to me!)
but its been a while since i make changes to the map :-/
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Does that pic look ugly to u Jitspoe?
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That's what happens when you jack up your gamma past what it's suppost to be.
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That's what happens when you jack up your gamma past what it's suppost to be.
Really lol
I have a superior video card? Because I can tweak my ati 32meg and voodoo 16 meg card the same way.
Define what its supposed to be?
What is the difference of jacking up gamma vs double binds?. Both are un-documented on alpha. Most importantly they give you a slight but equal advantage in that:
One allows you to slightly out flank oppents in some situations.
The other allows you to see better in the dark.
Ok think which happens more often, Confrontation in the dark? Or, confrontation in light. In, either case its confrontation and the advantage in my opionin is to the person who has superior binds not gamma.
Just something to think about.
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YOU DO NOT WIN THE GAME BY HAVING BINDS.
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So basically it boils down to you wanting to have an unfair advantage?
The gamma option is there for people with dark monitors, not for people with bright monitors to crank up to see in nearly-black areas.
Also, using dark areas is a slippery slope that I've seen cause ugliness in many games. Take Quake, for example. Dark and atmospheric. Well, once people figured out how to crank the brightness up, the dark dungeons became broad daylight, and people started making "dark" maps, which were even darker, causing people to crank the brightness up more and more, until all you see is a nasty rainbow band of yuck because the color resolution is so low. Quake is stuck using colors like 0-10 because 11-255 are all white. :P I don't want that to happen with paintball2. Tunnels should be well lit. It's fair, and it looks better, Mr. "I want everything to be fair unless it gives me an advantage." ;)
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I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WINING!!
All i ask is that each and all players have equal advantages when it comes to player preferences, in the menu. Period anything else is an exploit, PERIOD. Changing values and default settings that not are in the menu has always been shunned by the gaming community.
OK explain this, why do I and others have to read up and manually type commands? in console?. Rather than an easy to use menu?
Everything, mostly is a subjective subject...... Thus making anything you and I type a partial fallacy, or better put, logical summations. Leave it at that or not.. MY point is make your user interface more reliant on menu options, rather than console cmds.
Here are some exaggerated examples, in effect of the on line help I have received here.
"YOU ARE SO intercoursiNG STUPID"
"GET intercoursiNG OVER IT"
*edit the above was intended before 115 post
I understand your point about adding more gamma to this map. It is logical, OK some players cant see what I see but If that is the case I can recommend that no ones play Midnight.bsp or Antioch.bsp and others (two of the best maps ever in dp)
Why? Because of the dark areas that were never lit up correctly? Define correctly lit or a map that has ample gamma settings,
Sorry but i feel obligated to answer, after spending 5000+hours playing this mod
*** logical assumptions and rhetorical responces on my part are my biased opinion as a fair, non=thinking oaf of a man.
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If people put commands in the menu for you Loial, you would ask how to use them. Then you would ask someone to make a simplified menu so you could learn how to use the difficult menu.
Which, of course, was made difficult only because you are too lazy to learn the console commands. Which is why no one is going to make you a menu. Case rested. (A five year old could understand, please try, I know it hurts).
Why are your posts so long and confusing btw?
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you can actually make your own custom menus, its not that hard(i just learned how!)
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All i ask is that each and all players have equal advantages when it comes to player preferences, in the menu. Period anything else is an exploit, PERIOD. Changing values and default settings that not are in the menu has always been shunned by the gaming community.
RTFM
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If people put commands in the menu for you Loial, you would ask how to use them. Then you would ask someone to make a simplified menu so you could learn how to use the difficult menu.
Which, of course, was made difficult only because you are too lazy to learn the console commands. Which is why no one is going to make you a menu. Case rested. (A five year old could understand, please try, I know it hurts).
Why are your posts so long and confusing btw?
Long yes. Confusing how? What part did not make sense?
Eio, I have read it. btw I made a point at the end. What is your opinion :)
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WOW DO YOU GUYS HAVE A LIFE....!
No?
GET ONE...!
-Termin8oR
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Loial says (or should of said):
I want a menu with all the console commands easily layed out and usable, that every player in DP uses, so that BoB and any newbie cannot use commands in the console. This is because I think it will prevent one player from having an unfair advantage over another.
The closest you came to this is a couple of sentences I have finally come to understand:
Everything, mostly is a subjective subject...... Thus making anything you and I type a partial fallacy, or better put, logical summations. Leave it at that or not.. MY point is make your user interface more reliant on menu options, rather than console cmds.
You could probably make things better if every message wasen't one exciting crossword-puzzle after another. Just a suggestion, Bye now :D
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thanks , btw have we met on public?
Its pillow talk baby :)
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WOW DO YOU GUYS HAVE A LIFE....!
No?
GET ONE...!
You give us money, we'll get a life.
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Hey, I dont know if that Is a bug with the map or in whole Pong mode, but I`ll tell you what happened when I played the map (the one jitspoe posted the download link):
I played on a local LAN server (Mode: Pong), when my opponent (blue) scored, It said blueteam was scored on and added 5 points to red score, When Red team scored, it said blue team was scored on and added 5 points to red team, so ALWAYS the red team got the points!!
The only way Blue could get points was when I (red) shot into my own goal (I think owngoal is the english word..)..
That`s really strange and should be fixed...
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There's already a thread about this, and this thread isn't it.
http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1804.0
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Actually, it's a bug with this map. I think both bases got set to the same teamnumber somehow.