Digital Paint Discussion Board

Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Official Feature Votes => Topic started by: Cobo on January 05, 2008, 08:28:23 PM

Title: Feature: New map format
Post by: Cobo on January 05, 2008, 08:28:23 PM
Move away from the quake 2 bsp format into something better. I really dont know what other options there are though. (q3 I guess)

I would like to see things like concave brushes or patches.

If you dont know what patches are, here's a pic of it on BSP, sort was working on implementing them on BSP.

(http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/images/patches.gif)
(http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/images/patches2.gif)
Title: _
Post by: P!nk on January 05, 2008, 08:43:57 PM
Post removed
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: DaRkNeSS on January 05, 2008, 09:00:51 PM
Why do people want a map review board?  Who are you to shoot down someone's map?  If a map gets played a lot then obviously people like it, so there is no point in having some map review board who can try to control the map releases.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: jitspoe on January 05, 2008, 09:02:02 PM
The game already has "soft shadows".  Real-time soft shadows, however, don't have much to do with the map format.  A new map format will basically just alow more detail to be drawn faster and possibly have a scalable level of detail so that more detailed maps will be able to run on older hardware.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Cobo on January 05, 2008, 09:55:37 PM
http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10019
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Garrett on January 06, 2008, 02:47:08 AM
The more graphical updates to the maps, the better.  How would you be able to use a q3 map in a q2 based game?
Title: _
Post by: P!nk on January 06, 2008, 03:18:46 AM
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Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: sk89q on January 06, 2008, 03:30:16 AM
I think a free market would work better. Besides that, there's not actually a way to regulate what maps get played, unless of course, the silly idea of a list of map file checksums is proposed...
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: MosheD on January 06, 2008, 07:09:04 AM
In association with a new map format, the maps, which being redone should be realeased with an official mappack*. By making official maps like in e.g. warsow, the big amount of useless maps would be deleted and more 'matchable' maps would be played. Of course you should put some pubmaps into the pack, but not too much. See the warsow example, none complains about just playing like 15 maps all the time.

*The community/committee/skilled mapmaker could vote, which maps should be redone in the new format and realeased.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: sk89q on January 06, 2008, 12:48:05 PM
Whatever "official maps" get bundled with Paintball doesn't matter I think. Given fast downloads now, pubs determine what maps newbies play.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Cobo on January 06, 2008, 05:41:24 PM
In association with a new map format, the maps, which being redone should be realeased with an official mappack*. By making official maps like in e.g. warsow, the big amount of useless maps would be deleted and more 'matchable' maps would be played. Of course you should put some pubmaps into the pack, but not too much. See the warsow example, none complains about just playing like 15 maps all the time.

*The community/committee/skilled mapmaker could vote, which maps should be redone in the new format and realeased.
I think the current map supprt should be kept for backward compatability.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Garrett on January 06, 2008, 06:13:18 PM
I think the current map supprt should be kept for backward compatability.
I second that.  If there is a new map format, some errors could arise when trying to use the old maps.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: cusoman on January 06, 2008, 07:54:09 PM
Yes, why not just have the engine be able to support q2 and q3 .bsp files, and just use q3 dynamic lighting in everything.  Then every map looks better, old maps can be played, and new maps will be in the rather robust q3 .bsp format.
-Cusoman
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: jitspoe on January 07, 2008, 12:17:30 AM
Q3's dynamic lighting was worse than Q2's (albeit faster on some video cards).
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: webhead on January 29, 2008, 01:56:15 AM
any idea how difficult this idea would be to implement? i would imagine it's no small task - given that it means a complete overhaul of the engine (right?).
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: y00tz on January 29, 2008, 02:03:28 AM
The whole united states is covered in 4 feet of silver dollars, except one silver dollar is a red one, hardly a silver dollar I guess...
You parachute out of a plane, and randomly land near Dallas, TX.
You reach behind you with your left arm, and dig 15.4inches, and grab a silver dollar.
It's the red one, and it says:
"Wow y00tz,  this is one long ass analogy"

The odds are greater of that happening then they are for people to vote for a new map format at the risk of losing those gems we play now, you know, Blitz... Barrels... Rally21...

edit:  And heaven forbid the 2000 jump maps... tsk
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: webhead on January 29, 2008, 03:15:38 AM
y00tz...

I think the current map support should be kept for backward compatibility.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: cusoman on January 29, 2008, 03:29:34 PM
Actually I think y00tz was using a sort of double-satire, and was actually supporting the new map format.
-Cusoman

PS: I hate having to type out things instead of speak them, because the meaning always gets lost somewhere.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: webhead on January 29, 2008, 06:30:44 PM
Actually I think y00tz was using a sort of double-satire, and was actually supporting the new map format.
i know ;) but with backward compatibility, people would be more likely to vote for it. that was my point.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: spam on February 04, 2008, 03:32:49 PM
I think that bsp should be easier to use to make maps.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: ViciouZ on February 04, 2008, 03:45:14 PM
It's simplicity itself, you make the map out of blocks. If you can't handle blocks, you probably shouldn't be making a map. Try going through all of the tutorials in the mapping section. If you're still stuck, post a new topic asking for help.
Title: _
Post by: P!nk on February 26, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
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Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: xav93 on February 29, 2008, 06:39:13 PM
Quote
I think the current map supprt should be kept for backward compatability.
:-)


i think that some sort of program to turn bsps into a new map format should be made so that old maps can be transfered and bsps can gradually fade out of the system in favour of better map fomats being used
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: i_am_a_pirate on March 01, 2008, 09:50:56 AM
Yeah, but I don't just want to have to use counterstrike maps all the time, it'll just take DirtyTaco out of the business. Keep bsp, It's fine. Just get me a high-res texure pack!

When a match ends, and the map changes (on pubs), then there are some people who, when the map has loaded up, have very strong 'opinions' on the map. Say it is a noob map, so what? People stil like it. You'll probably get a comitte of people who judge maps so much that the really simple, old, good maps will just disappear
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: ViciouZ on March 01, 2008, 10:08:57 AM
Yeah, but I don't just want to have to use counterstrike maps all the time, it'll just take DirtyTaco out of the business. Keep bsp, It's fine. Just get me a high-res texure pack!

When a match ends, and the map changes (on pubs), then there are some people who, when the map has loaded up, have very strong 'opinions' on the map. Say it is a noob map, so what? People stil like it. You'll probably get a comitte of people who judge maps so much that the really simple, old, good maps will just disappear

What about counterstrike maps? This would either be an upgraded BSP format such as Q3's, or paintball's unique new map format. Counterstrike maps would require a downgrade, and half-life 2's map format is nasty.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: WarWulf on March 02, 2008, 03:59:35 AM
the ability to move one vertex of a brush in the map editor and not having it move the other verticies (BSP map editor)


simple mesh patching

dof system

entity auto fade 

bigger lightmapping texture.

a better stencil buffer for shading the entites to match the maps surfaces. and for brushs of the map to shade the character properly

light corona's!



Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: webhead on March 02, 2008, 05:03:33 AM
singular is 'vertex' , plural is 'vertices' ;)
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: WarWulf on March 02, 2008, 05:51:23 PM
yeah yeah, i was tired last night i fixed it.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Deranged on March 02, 2008, 06:39:01 PM
You could just use quark which already supports that :P
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: WarWulf on March 07, 2008, 04:29:59 PM
also if this hasnt been added yet. 3 layer support on rscripts so i can mask grass to show a dirt texture under it.


(http://www.warwulf-inc.com/pbmappers/abbey.jpg)
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Clipz on March 07, 2008, 05:32:27 PM
You could just use quark which already supports that :P

Quark owns bsp. Bsp is a pos.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: FlaMe on March 07, 2008, 05:36:16 PM
InDesign owns Quark
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: WarWulf on March 07, 2008, 09:24:32 PM
well if i could export .map files with 3dsmax i wouldnt ever have a problem with creating great maps lol
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: jitspoe on March 09, 2008, 03:01:01 PM
also if this hasnt been added yet. 3 layer support on rscripts so i can mask grass to show a dirt texture under it.

Can't you already do that?
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: WarWulf on March 10, 2008, 12:17:16 AM
 i tried it at one point and you said it wasnt able to be done.........
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: jitspoe on March 10, 2008, 09:35:07 AM
I guess I didn't understand what you just asked for, then.  In any case, it's probably not going to be automagically included with a new map format (and can probably be done without it), so it needs a new feature request.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: ashkenaz on May 05, 2008, 12:02:46 PM
why not have multiple map formats supported?  ??? or would that go along with this...
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Zorchenhimer on May 05, 2008, 03:08:10 PM
why not have multiple map formats supported?  ??? or would that go along with this...

It depends if we can convince Jitspoe to break backwards compatibility.  :)
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: KnacK on May 05, 2008, 03:09:51 PM
!!! that's 3 threads no Z-Man.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: ashkenaz on May 05, 2008, 03:14:40 PM
It depends if we can convince Jitspoe to break backwards compatibility.  :)

we need to sometime!

or this might as well be dead...  :'(
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: webhead on May 05, 2008, 04:12:58 PM
why not have multiple map formats supported?  ??? or would that go along with this...
It depends if we can convince Jitspoe to break backwards compatibility.  :)

i dont see how supporting multiple map formats would break backward-compatibility.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Zorchenhimer on May 05, 2008, 10:36:53 PM
i dont see how supporting multiple map formats would break backward-compatibility.

Sorry I worded that poorly.  I want to just move to a new map format and break compatibility.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: ashkenaz on May 06, 2008, 09:43:57 AM
ahhh backwards compatibility, like waiting for your younger siblings to grow up before you do... if people want to play whats hip they will upgrade, if they cant handle it, they will downgrade, nothing bad about that!
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Garrett on May 13, 2008, 10:07:27 AM
If we get rid of backwards compatibility, the fresh start for the maps would be good.  5000+ maps and only a hand full are played.  There are countless maps that have great game-play and look great but don't get any server play time.  Even if people will recreate the old maps, with harsher map release requirements, the recreations will need to look and play great before they are able to be played.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: jitspoe on May 13, 2008, 11:24:54 AM
My only concern is that,

A) People won't want to upgrade because they can't play their favorite map.

or

B) There will be a big rush to create new maps and we'll be in the same situaiton we are now, with a bunch of quickly and poorly constructed maps.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: ViciouZ on May 13, 2008, 11:40:08 AM
Maybe add the new format and slowly phase the old one out over 2 or 3 builds.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Garrett on May 13, 2008, 12:21:23 PM
ViciouZ, I like your idea.  It addresses the biggest concern, poorly made maps.  By slowly easing into a new format, it will give time to the good mappers to do their magic.

Check out my idea and leave some feedback too.  My idea directly relates to the new map format.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=13369.0
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: lekky on May 20, 2008, 10:06:31 AM
Old maps MUST be playable with any new map format introduction. This is a MUST, I don't even see why its being discussed. (Unless I have hte wrong end of the stick here)
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Garrett on May 20, 2008, 10:52:42 AM
I think you misunderstand.  ViciouZ as do many others, see that if in fact, the map format gets rid of the old map support, it can't be a sudden change.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: i_am_a_pirate on May 20, 2008, 12:11:50 PM
Old maps MUST be playable with any new map format introduction.
Nah, I'm redy for some new maps. I'm sick of:
clan1: what's your map?
clan2: blitz

or

clan3: what's your map?
clan4: ub_cliff

We really need some new maps!
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: ViciouZ on May 20, 2008, 01:50:20 PM
I was just throwing it out there - personally I don't want to totally switch, I doubt people would have enough perseverance to remake maps like summer and perfugio - DT certainly won't.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: i_am_a_pirate on May 20, 2008, 03:00:44 PM
have a program to convert .map files into the new format? As long as you have the .map file still, DT...
Oh yeah, he was banned! lol.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Garrett on May 20, 2008, 05:38:05 PM
have a program to convert .map files into the new format? As long as you have the .map file still, DT...
Oh yeah, he was banned! lol.
Bad idea.  You can get almost any .map from the OTB ftp server.  Not a good idea due to the fact that people will just rip off someone else's work plus the simple fact that the program would be difficult to write.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: i_am_a_pirate on May 21, 2008, 03:26:39 AM
You can get almost any .map from the OTB ftp server.

ooh, crap. Forgot about that one lol!.

I was just throwing it out there - personally I don't want to totally switch, I doubt people would have enough perseverance to remake maps like summer and perfugio - DT certainly won't.
So they make new maps?! That is one of the major reasons for doing this.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: hackedplayer on March 12, 2011, 10:59:20 PM
there is one problem..... WHERE THE HECK IS THE Q3 MAP EDITOR I SEARCHED UP THE INTERNET AND IT GAVE ME USELESS RESULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
besides if you want to move the game up one generation, think of those who have slow pc that only can support q2 instead of q3. I know there is very few people with these computers but just show empathy towards them. they might miss out those cooool maps. for example. I wanted MW2 so badly because it is fun (no offence to digital paintball 2) but my computer...low hardware specs I might as well play it them suddenly BOOOM my pc overheats and explodes. so think about them jitspoe... STAY Q2
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Rick on March 13, 2011, 07:28:43 AM
So you're saying that we shouldn't change the game for the better, just so you and those with crappy computers can play? May as well tell Jitspoe to stop developing it now then... Or did I misunderstand?
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: jitspoe on March 14, 2011, 05:41:11 PM
It might be a pipe dream, but I would like to have a map LOD system that would allow people with lower end computers to turn the details down and maintain playability on some of the older systems.  Collision could be a bit wonky, though.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: webhead on March 14, 2011, 06:21:14 PM
Yeah. Personally I'd like the game to not use 100% CPU so I could play it on my laptop without making it get too hot.
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: NJIN on June 04, 2012, 03:31:49 PM
having hundreds of maps is part of why this games is so great
Title: Re: Feature: New map format
Post by: Chef-Killer on June 05, 2012, 11:39:15 AM
50 really good made maps would increase the quality of the game a lot. In my opinion the hundreds of unfinished maps and bugmaps is one of the worst parts of the game. Also it doesn't really help to attract new players.

However, it has nothing to do with the topic. I'm pretty sure that old maps would be also playable with a new map format.