Digital Paint Discussion Board

Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Official Feature Votes => Topic started by: Cobo on January 05, 2008, 10:10:32 PM

Title: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Cobo on January 05, 2008, 10:10:32 PM
Like most games, show hints, tips or helpfull information somewhere. It would probably be best on the map loading screen.
This would probably help with the issue of players leaving the game before actually playing in an online server or anything.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: FlaMe on January 05, 2008, 10:16:37 PM
like a way to randomize MOTD files so you get a new tip every server you join?
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Cobo on January 05, 2008, 10:36:40 PM
No, I mean when you join a server and it starts to load the map, textures, models, etc. When the lower half of the screen is black.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on January 05, 2008, 11:17:49 PM
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=10605.0 - perhaps these threads should be merged.

http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10024
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: webhead on January 06, 2008, 12:13:51 AM
hmm. only thing about this is that compared to some games, DP maps load pretty fast. at least they do on my computer ... i'm guessing roughly 2-4 seconds for a map to load, if it doesn't need to be downloaded. and with build 20's improved download speed, even downloading a map wouldn't provide much of an increased delay in map loading.

so my point is that if something is put there, it most likely wouldn't be showing long enough to read it.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Cobo on January 06, 2008, 12:18:45 AM
Well, perhaps the current MOTD system should be removed and instead when a player joins a server a window pops up.
In that window the player could see the MOTD and somewhere in there it should display a hint.
I guess other stuff could be done directly from this window like joining a team, etc.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: webhead on January 06, 2008, 01:04:40 AM
great idea.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Garrett on January 06, 2008, 02:39:54 AM
This sounds perfect for the newer players to learn simple things that aren't taught in the manual.  You could also add basic wisdom from the greats...
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: webhead on January 06, 2008, 04:07:29 AM
ok so who all thinks this feature needs a dependency of "Message Box Dialogs (http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10027)" added to it?
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: DaRkNeSS on January 06, 2008, 04:18:36 AM
Great idea, would help the newer players a lot.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on January 06, 2008, 10:15:12 PM
ok so who all thinks this feature needs a dependency of "Message Box Dialogs (http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10027)" added to it?
Depends on how it's implemented.

One thing that might be useful, rather than generic tips, is game event triggered tips.  Like if you kill the last person on the enemy team while your team has the flag, it would pop up a message stating that your team gets more points when the flag is captured - avoid eliminating the enemy team when your team has the flag.  Things like that.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Cobo on January 06, 2008, 10:25:30 PM
Depends on how it's implemented.

One thing that might be useful, rather than generic tips, is game event triggered tips.  Like if you kill the last person on the enemy team while your team has the flag, it would pop up a message stating that your team gets more points when the flag is captured - avoid eliminating the enemy team when your team has the flag.  Things like that.
"Press X yo drop your gun and grab a new one" when above a weapon.
"Throw your grenade with X" when you grab a nade.
Yeah, I guess those would be usefull, but generic tips should still be added though. For things like how to play with bots etc.
They should be removable from the setup menu though.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: webhead on January 06, 2008, 10:45:11 PM
hmm, triggered tips - sounds good.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: lekky on January 09, 2008, 07:53:56 PM
Yes, I like that idea, sort of like a Beginner Mode, which should default to on for new downloads :)
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: coLa on January 10, 2008, 05:39:52 AM
:'(
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on January 10, 2008, 05:46:23 PM
what is this, an RPG now? triggered tips is a bad idea IMO. but it's just my opinion.
Lots of FPS games have triggered tips.  Why is it a bad idea?
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: FlaMe on January 10, 2008, 05:49:01 PM
what could they be? "reload your co2 at the beginning of rounds"... "aim your shots in an arch"... most players know anything you could tell them.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: coLa on January 10, 2008, 06:25:13 PM
Lots of FPS games have triggered tips.  Why is it a bad idea?

i was thinking about it last night after i made that post, and i realized it's not that bad of an idea after all. would this be like a server side and client side thing, or just client side? inside of having automatic popups, how about some like press "O" for tips.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Zorchenhimer on January 10, 2008, 06:51:32 PM
Or just one-time triggered tips?  ET:QW does this.  For instance, when you want to use a tool in your possession, you select it and a small box pops up at the top telling you what that tool does.  The popups don't repeat themselves.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: lekky on January 10, 2008, 08:47:12 PM
what could they be? "reload your co2 at the beginning of rounds"... "aim your shots in an arch"... most players know anything you could tell them.

You'd be surprised how much that would help new players.

Or just one-time triggered tips?  ET:QW does this.  For instance, when you want to use a tool in your possession, you select it and a small box pops up at the top telling you what that tool does.  The popups don't repeat themselves.

I think it would be nice to have it on, the default setting, until they decide to turn it off.

On the beginner servers I have, I only have about 25 tips (oh yeah, thanks for the meddling help with ideas, cigarettes), but you'd be surprised how often it stimulates discussion between newbies.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: FlaMe on January 10, 2008, 08:51:11 PM
i think linking them here or to mirc.com would be the best for noob players.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: cusoman on January 10, 2008, 08:51:58 PM
If we were to implement tips, which is a great idea, then it should be both triggered tips and things while loading the map, and things that pop up when you enter a server.  I suggest all people that join the server start in Observer though, so they are not reading tips when they spawn and die.  Also, many times I have to explain to new people how to join a team when they are observer, so when you are observer, there should be an ongoing message saying "Hit Escape to get the in game menu, and select Join Team to play!" or something to that effect.
-Cusoman
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: FlaMe on January 10, 2008, 08:57:47 PM
as well as a way to disable them but leave them on as a default as there are more noobs than good players. if i got console spammed during matches or pubs id be pretty mad
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: coLa on January 10, 2008, 09:35:09 PM
just have it a client side thing. that way they can disable when they feel ready and confident.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on January 11, 2008, 12:45:09 AM
Yeah, it would have to be client side, and the tips would display maybe twice then stop, or could be disabled completely in the options.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: coLa on January 11, 2008, 02:25:56 AM
maybe make it customizable? let them choose how they want them to show and how many times they want them to show.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on January 11, 2008, 02:45:41 AM
If you've figured out how to customize something like that, you probably don't need it.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: FlaMe on January 11, 2008, 07:07:27 AM
man makes a good point. why post reminders for yourself?
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: ViciouZ on February 16, 2009, 01:28:02 PM
Now that there is a client-side stats system in place, it might be possible to do some basic triggered stats (you picked up the flag! take it to your base to score points), but how should they be displayed? The only feasible way at the moment would be an image overlay as far as I can see.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: KnacK on February 16, 2009, 02:29:34 PM
/me envisions an audible Tints and Tips...

"OK n00b Viciouz, you got the flag, now go cap it before your team mates gang rape you!"
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Zorchenhimer on February 16, 2009, 03:48:53 PM
Now that there is a client-side stats system in place, it might be possible to do some basic triggered stats (you picked up the flag! take it to your base to score points), but how should they be displayed? The only feasible way at the moment would be an image overlay as far as I can see.

As long as it is a smaller image out of the way.  I hate it when there is a larger overlay telling you what to do thats in your way (like in TF2, "You are on the Blu team.  You are attacking").
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: T3RR0R15T on February 16, 2009, 04:11:56 PM
The audio thing is interesting, but without "noob".
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: lilb990 on February 16, 2009, 04:21:48 PM
IMO That's too distracting
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: webhead on February 16, 2009, 05:14:02 PM
/me can do teh voiceovers. ;D
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: KnacK on February 16, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
The audio thing is interesting, but without "noob".

Fixed, see my post above. ;D
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on February 17, 2009, 11:24:41 AM
I think some "beginner tips" could be useful, but they would need to be something people can disable.  I was thinking at some point it would be nice to have like arrows that direct new players toward the flag/base.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: i_am_a_pirate on February 17, 2009, 11:36:11 AM
I was thinking at some point it would be nice to have like arrows that direct new players toward the flag/base.
Yea, but the obvious problem with that is that the arrow might not actually point to the best way to get to the base like in backtoback, etc.
Or you could have some kind of 'path' within bsp to allow you to set the fastest way to the base... but that might get abused (lead into a death trap, etc)

Didnt you say something about there only being a certain amount of things that you can put on the HUD? Or would this not be a HUD thing? Is image overlays already on the HUD?
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on February 18, 2009, 12:08:00 PM
This would probably have to wait until the bot code was improved and the arrows could use path finding from that.  The arrows would be 3D, not on the HUD.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: cusoman on February 18, 2009, 12:15:26 PM
I think there should be 2 different kinds of hints.

1. Hints that scroll along the bottom in a nice fancy partially transparent good looking box like, "You have the flag, run and capture it at your base!"

2. A "tutorials" menu where various tutorials load up various common maps, and have a billboard arrow labeled: "Red Base This Way --->"  Also we could have that entity that prints messages to the screen print messages to the new shiny partially transparent hint box saying "Follow the arrows to learn the basic layout of the map!"  "This map has 2 basic routes, lets go exploring!"  All of these entities and billboard models could be placed with .ent files that the tutorials load, but not the regular game.  :)  This seems fairly implementable without a great deal of changes to the current engine.  Maybe support .tent files :) (tutorial ent files. also so you can learn to camp. PUN!)

-Cusoman
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: i_am_a_pirate on February 18, 2009, 12:17:18 PM
This would probably have to wait until the bot code was improved and the arrows could use path finding from that.  The arrows would be 3D, not on the HUD.
Or physically in the map on the floor, maybe? Just a thought. It would require some mapmaking work, and somelazy mappers might not be bothered about noobs getting stuck on their 'amazing' maps
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Kaos on March 01, 2009, 05:56:25 PM
how bout something like soo at start of map


(http://i44.tinypic.com/2upbvvr.jpg)
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Rewind on March 01, 2009, 06:06:28 PM
That would be wonderful if dp maps didn't load in less than 5 seconds. :P

During warmup, you could have text reading "info" that you can click under the "match starts in..." thing, that if you click, shows what kaos posted.

Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: KnacK on March 01, 2009, 08:26:10 PM
Or..

Have a key bound that would bring up that kind of information so that it is readily available.
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: jitspoe on March 02, 2009, 12:04:08 AM
how bout something like soo at start of map

Problem with that is mappers would have to put together some kind of image like that when they make the map.  It's hard enough to get them to align their textures!  Plus what would we do for the ~1000 other maps that are already made?
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: KI3S on March 02, 2009, 12:10:57 AM
Good idea but would probably be very difficult to do for the many maps. Plus any new player after a couple of minutes playing on a map should be able to understand the map and where to go, unless it's a map with 4 different directions to go *cough* pp3 :P
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: KnacK on March 02, 2009, 08:19:56 AM
Problem with that is mappers would have to put together some kind of image like that when they make the map.  It's hard enough to get them to align their textures!  Plus what would we do for the ~1000 other maps that are already made?

I know...

THen I revert back to "there needs to be an official DP map stamp that makes maps meet some sort of criteria"

Oh well, I can dream though....
Title: Re: Feature: Display 'Hints and Tips' somewhere in DP
Post by: Kaos on March 03, 2009, 02:01:57 AM
I know...

THen I revert back to "there needs to be an official DP map stamp that makes maps meet some sort of criteria"

Oh well, I can dream though....
Idk  why but this seems to be the first time i agree with knack on something XD

+1 on that