Digital Paint Discussion Board

Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: jitspoe on January 26, 2003, 07:22:41 PM

Title: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: jitspoe on January 26, 2003, 07:22:41 PM: This would likely be greatly hated, but what would everyone think of the idea of making it so the semi-autos and pumps would fire one ball per click?
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Anrkist on January 26, 2003, 08:41:37 PM: i dont really like the idea of having to hit my mouse button all the time... BUT Ive done it in other games.. it isnt hard to learn or anything but I think it would make the gameplay diffrent and alot of people would have to relearn things.. im not sure thats a good idea... but also the user base right now isnt on a large scale , if your going to do something drastic like that now would be the best time to impliment it in case this game really takes off wouldent want a excrement load of people getting pissed off =]

And.. IF you decide to test this (why not add it and just give server admins the option to use it or not ??) leave the vm68 , traccer and stringray alone.. they are poor enough as is =]
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Shreds on January 26, 2003, 09:27:22 PM: You supply me a mouse that doesnt make a *click* noise, and i'm fine with it. Other then that, everyone will hate hearing rapid fire clicks all night outside their bedrooms.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Fryth on January 26, 2003, 09:51:05 PM: I actually think this is a great idea.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Michael_Fornal on January 26, 2003, 11:26:26 PM: Hey, I rape ass with the PGP, I can deal with a pgp-type gun with less delay.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Blitz on January 27, 2003, 04:42:30 AM: I'd like to delay carpal tunnel as long as possible. :-*
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: jitspoe on January 27, 2003, 08:31:49 AM: lol, blitz.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: meat on January 27, 2003, 11:13:19 PM: it could be worth a try but im hoping that it wont turn out like HLDP did. I wasn't a big fan of that, cause it was just a click contest.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: XtremeBain on January 28, 2003, 12:09:16 PM: And I'm the one who won the click contest, ask DAVEW.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: RoyalBlood on January 31, 2003, 11:35:42 AM: I dont think it would work well enough. Me and a few others were talking in the channel last week about this (yes we were talking about paintball in #paintball!) and kinda settled on a middle ground of having a spray meter. I dunno what to call it. But basically for every gun, there is a unique rate of spraying, where as you are spraying, your meter goes down. The lower you rmeter is the "less" you are allowed to spray. This can either be by increasing the delay time, or slowly making the gun more "semi-automatic" or i dunno how. If you completely run out of meter, your gun jams for a few seconds. Then of course as your not shooting, your meter gradulaly goes back up. Each gun needs to be different however, cuz you cant really spray with a PGP or Stingray for instance, so their meters should go down a lot more slowly and not have as much impact when the meter is low. This would hopefully balance the game a bit more and reduce the cheap (and admit it.. VERY NOT FUN) tactics where someone just stands there and shoots at the base entrance for 5 minutes in a row.

As an aside, I was playing Stale2 (i think it was called) last night. And first off, its a TERRIBLE map. But anyway, the game was reduced to pretty much all spraying. Which ever team got control of the middle section first, then would just simply spray the insantely small base entrance, while the remaining opponents did the same. So the game slowed to a crawl and everyone just stood there spraying endlessly. This is PERFECT example of why something needs to be done about it. Its not broke, but it needs tweaking.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Snipen on February 01, 2003, 08:52:21 AM: How about a 3 round burst instead of full auto... or even an option for full or burst .....the 3 rounds burst would work where instead of a steady strem of paint there would be a burst and then a pause and then a burst again..... the pause should be short not long at all.... this would also help conserve on paint
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Michael_Fornal on February 03, 2003, 11:57:47 AM: 3 round burst sucks. The old TCA server did it because of bad server code or something, and it's absolutely awful.

I'm going to start calling Royalblood Jerry Fawlwell.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: RoyalBlood on February 03, 2003, 04:12:09 PM: Then offer a suggestion instead of just shooting down everyone elses ideas as if they are all worthless and then insulting them.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Michael_Fornal on February 03, 2003, 04:30:50 PM: Okay.

I suggest you stop asking for things to be changed. They are fine the way they are.

Thanks chief,
mizike
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Anrkist on February 03, 2003, 11:51:00 PM: Yeah Mike.. I had forgotten about those TCA servers and I remeber the 3 round burst.. they did suck and no one ever played on them because of it (and they were decent servers to!)

The problem was.. it becomes luck when you hit someone at a 3 round burst... Unless your so anal you time your shots properly.. but this is a game and we want to have fun =]

Anyways my first reply still stands.. I think people wouldent want to click thier mouse all the darn time.. so this would get rid of pray and spray , and people would eventualy learn to only fire when you need to.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Anrkist on February 03, 2003, 11:52:38 PM: I would like to add I never have or never will use the word 'diddly' - thats jit.. not letting me say D*A-M/N
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: XtremeBain on February 05, 2003, 12:12:46 PM: Here's the solution to all of RoyalBlood's problems:

Just take out the hoppers, stick with the 40 round, and give each player a belt with 5 40round pods. Then just make a 6-8second reload time.
-OR-
Remove all the co2 canisters and only use 2oz and 12g canisters instead. That way you either have 4s or 10s of constant spray.

As for the jumping problem, have it so the paint in your pods start to break after you jump so much. Each jump takes out ~10 balls. Then even if you do run past everyone, you have no paint to kill them.

OH!! You need a command to try to steal pods from your teammates, and you can make it cprint to whoever it was stolen from "SOMEONE JUST SWAPPED ONE OF YOUR PODS!!"
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: oddjob on February 05, 2003, 01:07:35 PM: Thats pretty funny xbain. I think its a good idea.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: jitspoe on February 05, 2003, 01:35:16 PM: Quote
I would like to add I never have or never will use the word 'diddly' - thats jit.. not letting me say D*A-M/N

but... you just used it there...

Ok, I think I'll keep the guns the same. People would probably make scripts for constant fire or something anyway, putting newbies at even more of a disadvantage.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: RoyalBlood on February 06, 2003, 03:56:10 PM: Those are some intersting ideas Xbain.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: jitspoe on February 06, 2003, 08:33:26 PM: heh, when I played paintball in real life, we just had 40 balls per round, 'cuz they're so expensive when you have several ppl playing...
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: oddjob on February 19, 2003, 01:23:00 PM: I definatly think you should take into great consideration bains ideas.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: TEKNIKAL on February 19, 2003, 02:32:37 PM: Hey Jit you sure bout the ammo thing coz i was at the nearest center and the ammo is $2 per 100 balls (i think thats the right cost in dollars) or free if you bring your own paint.

Anyway Bain's idea is interesting but if you do use it have it as an admin variable
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Anrkist on February 19, 2003, 03:46:02 PM: Wow thats cheap like.. 7-8 years ago they were expensive as hell.. guess I havent kept up ;]
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: WarWulf on February 23, 2003, 09:41:57 AM: Jitspoe Dont u dare touch the guns spraying ill be sad 8(
and no burst or clicky finger buttons and lol i remember the 3 shot burst excrement on TCA server and fornal i pwn joo with my pgp ;)
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Blitz on February 23, 2003, 06:11:16 PM: "Those are some intersting ideas Xbain. " - Interestingly sarcastic ones =)
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: rafalluz on August 26, 2009, 04:53:21 PM: I know it's old as hell thread but IMO it deserves to be reconsidered.

Why not make Stingray or VM-68 actually semi auto? In that 1 click = 1 ball and no holding for spraying? I mean those guns suck at auto anyway so it would make them more interesting. And to stop anxious fingers why not impose minimal delay between shots on semi? Some diversification could imo help keep people more interested in overall experience.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: ViciouZ on August 26, 2009, 05:29:17 PM: There is a setting to make all guns fire semi auto - g_autofire 0 - but not to only make specific ones do it.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Eiii on September 04, 2009, 04:20:22 AM: Quote from: rafalluz on August 26, 2009, 04:53:21 PM
I know it's old as hell thread but IMO it deserves to be reconsidered.

Why not make Stingray or VM-68 actually semi auto? In that 1 click = 1 ball and no holding for spraying? I mean those guns suck at auto anyway so it would make them more interesting. And to stop anxious fingers why not impose minimal delay between shots on semi? Some diversification could imo help keep people more interested in overall experience.

People would just avoid those guns like the plague, then, regardless of their accuracy. In this department, things are fine as they are.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: i_am_a_pirate on September 07, 2009, 11:50:39 AM: It would be a good idea, but the gun would have to be rated very highly, as you could click up to an almost an autococker speed.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: rafalluz on September 07, 2009, 01:11:31 PM: Heh, that was my whole point - to promote guns like Stingray and VM-68, essentially useless right now if there is spyder or better gun on the map. Also, I think that many would be put off by need to continously tap mouse button and therefore prefer full autos. But since most are dead set that things are fine the way they are...
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: blaa on September 08, 2009, 08:18:03 AM: I actually think this is a good idea now. Bare with me:

So, we have 2 guns, which are 'good' guns at the moment - carbine and autococker. Others are just useless and not needed, with the exception of PGP, you can play PGP battles with it, otherwise its useless. Now you might think that 'what the fack moran, why did u leave out autumag, you fagel?!?!??!". Automag has one good place where you can use it - when you want to spray over some hill. Now, let's make 1 thing sure here - I do not like spraying, but anyway, automag is useless, because you can't collect weapons and in common situations automag is not prefered (please remember that although automag can release more balls, carbines and cockers bullets are FASTER).

Spyder is just annoying gun. Mappers seem to think that it is an okay gun and place it to their maps. what the fakk. It's useless. The balls are slow, imo it looks bad (I think carbine looks so hot, and when i used to play with sound [years ago] I like the sound of that gun the most as well).

So, we have 8 guns. 2 are used - carbine and autococker(I personally prefer carbine, but I don't really bother to get an carbine when I already have a cocker - all in all, in my eyes, those 2 guns are equal), 2 seem to be okay - spyder and automag - but we clearly prefer carbine and autococker to them. PGP is a niche gun - you can LOL around and shoot your clanmates while you are really bored and play expert 8 fights.

Trracer, Stingray, VM-68. Why do we have those guns? Just to have more guns in the game? To be honest, jitspoe is always like 'uuuuh, dont add that double jump there, noobies cant do that!!!". Well lol, you have 8 guns in your game. Confusing excrement man!

Suggestions:
PGP - Very accurate (needs no barrel, shoots perfectly straight [like it has a steel barrel]). Infinite ammo - when holding a PGP you don't have a hopper/ball count/gas in your HUD, just shoot. Makes the gun useful.

Trracer - Remove
Stingray - Remove
VM-68 - Remove

Spyder - Semi-auto! Shoot as fast as you can - 1 click, 1 shot. Should have some sort of cheat protection though. I imagine that if you can code a aimbot/wallhack and whatnot, it is possible to code some script that just shoots sooooo fast. While we don't have that cheat protection, you could set some upper limit (like you couldnt send out more balls than you could with a carbine or whatever).

Carbine - Look Autococker
Autococker - The 2 guns - carbine, autococker - are so similar at the moment. Like I said before, I dont really care which gun i have. I think having 2 similar guns is useless. I don't really have a clue how to accomplish that. Ideas?

Automag - Actually this is a good 'niche' gun as well. Lets take airtime as example. You take the airtime, and u can go and shoot over that hump like you couldn't with a carbine. It could come as an surprise to the enemy team.

I said we should remove Trracer, Stingray, VM-68. Whaaaat?? What about the maps what have those guns? I am sure it is easy to 'change' guns in those maps either by the mapper to his liking(.ent files), or by some code that would just change those guns into like carbines or whatever.

Yes, this is a drastic change, so it won't happen, but yeah, I had fun writing this post.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: ViciouZ on September 08, 2009, 11:40:36 AM: I think all the guns are different enough already apart from the VM68 and maybe Stingray, which just serve to annoy.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: blaa on September 08, 2009, 02:10:23 PM: What do you mean different enough?
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: rafalluz on September 08, 2009, 02:45:21 PM: Quote
I think all the guns are different enough already apart from the VM68 and maybe Stingray, which just serve to annoy.

Yep. And that's the point of this whole discussion IMO. Weapons only to annoy when in fact they could be perfectly usable and competitive.

Also just because gun is semi does not mean you can spray it with every click. You may put reasonable minimum delay (100ms is my guess) between shots to prevent from abusing this weapon.

Some food for thought.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: jitspoe on September 08, 2009, 06:08:55 PM: The problem with semi-auto firing is that people will likely make scripts/binds/macros to fire the weapons as fast as possible. All of the real life weapons the game is modeled after are semi-auto or pump, so having some be auto and some semi-auto doesn't really make sense.

8 guns really isn't that many. Most games have more. Weapon auto-pickups is an easy solution to avoid confusion among new players: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10211

Personally, I like the lower-end weapons, and strategically placed weapons can make maps more interesting (rush using the shortest path with lower-end equipment, or go out of the way a little more to get better equipment).
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: blaa on September 09, 2009, 05:37:39 AM: Quote from: jitspoe on September 08, 2009, 06:08:55 PM
8 guns really isn't that many. Most games have more.

Personally, I like the lower-end weapons, and strategically placed weapons can make maps more interesting (rush using the shortest path with lower-end equipment, or go out of the way a little more to get better equipment).

Most games have different guns for different purposes.

Name me some maps where guns are placed strategically? (where it really makes sense)
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: rafalluz on September 09, 2009, 06:27:28 PM: Quote
The problem with semi-auto firing is that people will likely make scripts/binds/macros to fire the weapons as fast as possible.

It's pretty easily rendered impossible by imposing minimum delay between shots.

Quote
(rush using the shortest path with lower-end equipment, or go out of the way a little more to get better equipment).

Hardly any of frequently played maps nowadays are made that way. And even if so, lower end usually means at least Spyder SE :D So definitely yes in theory, but not so much in practice.

Quote
Most games have different guns for different purposes.

After all ViciouZ mentioned one reason to have these lower end guns: to annoy :D
There is no such problem with carbine, cocker and mag though.
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: XtremeBain on September 10, 2009, 12:30:25 AM: I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU'RE KIDDING

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2277/2515672712_10f43eda2c.jpg)
TRRACER IS #2
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: Eiii on September 10, 2009, 07:51:35 AM: Quote from: rafalluz on September 09, 2009, 06:27:28 PM
Hardly any of frequently played maps nowadays are made that way. And even if so, lower end usually means at least Spyder SE :D So definitely yes in theory, but not so much in practice.

In theory this game would attract a close-knit community full of intelligent, kind, mature, dedicated, and productive individuals who would strive to make the game as fun and competitive as possible but hey, all you can do is try. Better to try to be good than succumb to being crappy, eh?
Title: Re: Semi-auto firing...
Post by: rafalluz on September 10, 2009, 05:21:44 PM: Quote
In theory this game would attract a close-knit community full of intelligent, kind, mature, dedicated, and productive individuals who would strive to make the game as fun and competitive as possible but hey, all you can do is try. Better to try to be good than succumb to being crappy, eh?

We're onto sth bigger now. My take on that topic is:

you can't change people's minds and attitudes about the game and whatever features it has directly. All you can do is control what are features to be in game. And if the features encourage trying to be good and yet people still ignore them, there are 3 options:

1)They're freaking evil/don't care about anything.
2)You're wrong for even wishing them to be good in the first place - they always were crappy, always are, and always will be.
3)Your features were not compelling enough, but could be.

In my opinion two of those are just too ridiculous (maybe except for some really twisted units , but tbh they will probably get banned anyways, so who cares). That leaves option 3. Indeed, if stingrays and VMs are notoriously being omitted on most maps, that may be the sign that there's something wrong with them. It's still up to you to decide obviously - though I think decision is made in anybody's minds since long ago. That still leaves nice discussion.