Digital Paint Discussion Board

Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: Sirois on February 02, 2008, 12:59:04 PM

Title: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 02, 2008, 12:59:04 PM
Hi all!!!

I developed a new map: Sirois' Grotto!!!
Some screenshots for you:

(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot000.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot001.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot002.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot003.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot004.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot005.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot006.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot007.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot008.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot009.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot010.jpg)
(http://www.maxim-web.de/grafiken/sshot011.jpg)

What do i have to do, to make my map available for all
players???
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: KiLo on February 02, 2008, 01:04:09 PM
You can upload your map to www.zilla-clan.net/upload

Edit: I win by 21 seconds hahahaha ;D
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: ViciouZ on February 02, 2008, 01:04:30 PM
It looks awesome!

First, add '_beta1' to the end of the map name, then go to http://www.zilla-clan.net/upload, and put the .bsp file on there.


edit: darn you kilo...
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: y00tz on February 02, 2008, 01:08:07 PM
Wow, that looks very cool :)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: sk89q on February 02, 2008, 01:45:01 PM
It looks to be... leaking.

It's better to upload your map here:
http://maps.digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/
:)

(unless you need a ZIP file with textures, etc.)

Remember to append _b1 to the filename of the BSP file.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 02, 2008, 02:00:03 PM
what can i do against this "leaking" thing?

what shall i put into this zip-file?

Thank you for your advices and thank you for rating my map so high!!! :)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Chef-Killer on February 02, 2008, 02:18:45 PM
Don't forget to post the link ;)

http://zilla-clan.net/upload/275339 (http://zilla-clan.net/upload/275339)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: KiLo on February 02, 2008, 02:55:42 PM
r_speeds are horrendous throughout the entire map. Just about everywhere is above 10,000 wpoly.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: ViciouZ on February 02, 2008, 03:21:06 PM
That means there was no VIS stage, so it did leak, like sk89q thought.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: sk89q on February 02, 2008, 03:45:08 PM
A leak is where the "inside" lighted area where players reside has an opening (it can be large or 1 unit^2) to the black expanse outside the map. You will know there is a leak if it says ****LEAKED**** in the black box.

After you fix the leaks, the lighting of your map will change a bit. If you want to have the bottom of the caverns still dark (like a black expanse), you will have to use negative lights, which I believe ArghRad supports. Instead of emitting light, they take it away. Like anti-light. :)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 02, 2008, 04:07:57 PM
The map is very nice looking.  The cave detail is very nice.  Good luck fixing the leak and r_speeds.  Should be a very nice map once the little things are fixed.
Is this your first map?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 02, 2008, 04:15:22 PM
Yes, its my first map.
Thank you for all the tipps!!!
I hope that I can play on that map together with you all soon!
I'll try to do like you told me... thanks for all...!
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 02, 2008, 04:22:44 PM
Wow, this is one of the best first maps I have seen in a while.  Great job.  Look forward to seeing beta 2.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: jitspoe on February 02, 2008, 07:13:48 PM
Once you fix the leak, I'll put it up on the beta server for testing.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 03, 2008, 01:20:51 PM
OK, i fixed the leak... Nothing leaking now...
But how can i fast test the lighting of my map???
Now it takes howers to compile it... :(

Where can i grab ArghRad 3.0???
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: KiLo on February 03, 2008, 01:23:43 PM
Taking hours to compile is actually a good thing.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 03, 2008, 01:26:11 PM
OK, i fixed the leak... Nothing leaking now...
But how can i fast test the lighting of my map???
Now it takes howers to compile it... :(
Get a faster computer ;) The best way is just do all of the lighting, test, and then write down all of the things you want to change if it does take to long.  The size of the map usually is a factor too, but you can't do much about it.  Just make all your changes at once instead of 1 change and testing after each one.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: blaa on February 03, 2008, 01:36:06 PM
OK, i fixed the leak... Nothing leaking now...
But how can i fast test the lighting of my map???
Now it takes howers to compile it... :(

Where can i grab ArghRad 3.0???

you have arghrad 3.0, it comes with your bsp.

Just select Final compile.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 03, 2008, 01:51:31 PM
Is there any other compiler that would be helpful to download?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: sk89q on February 03, 2008, 03:00:08 PM
No. Not sure why you would need another compiler.

To have the lighting calculate faster, get a better processor :)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 03, 2008, 03:05:38 PM
I have an Intel Core 2 Quad with 2.4 GHz...
But it takes soooo long to compile the Numportals...
there are more than 15000... Is that too much???
My .map is just 576 kb big, so why does it take so long?
It stops at

0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (...)
0...1...2... finish...

nothing happens for one or two hours... Is that normal?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 03, 2008, 03:13:16 PM
I have an Intel Core 2 Quad with 2.4 GHz...
But it takes soooo long to compile the Numportals...
there are more than 15000... Is that too much???
My .map is just 576 kb big, so why does it take so long?
It stops at

0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (...)
0...1...2... finish...

nothing happens for one or two hours... Is that normal?
Sounds like there might be too much surface area.
Try putting the detail flag on things like barrels and crates or anything of this nature.
This should drastically reduce the Numportal count and the r_speeds.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Chef-Killer on February 03, 2008, 03:51:38 PM
I don't know if the detail flag let the compiler be faster, but the max numportals are around 6.500. So when your compile is finished in a few hours, you will have a black map (i think).
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 03, 2008, 04:29:46 PM
It will make the compile run faster because the polys will be lower.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 03, 2008, 04:41:15 PM
OK, I'll try it this "detail flag" thank you for this hint...
Which compile time is normal for a map???
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 03, 2008, 04:49:56 PM
OK, I'll try it this "detail flag" thank you for this hint...
Which compile time is normal for a map???
Depends on all a lot of things.  CPU speed, size of map, Numportals, etc.
Can't give you an honest answer.
I usually have a 1 minute wait but my maps aren't as detailed as your's.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 03, 2008, 05:01:18 PM
how do i use this detail flag?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 03, 2008, 05:05:35 PM
Select the barrels and other things like barrels such as crates and then push 's'.  Click the 'detail' option and then click 'apply to brush'.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: sk89q on February 03, 2008, 05:10:39 PM
It will make the compile run faster because the polys will be lower.

It won't necessarily lower the wpolys. It will only optimize the portals.

how do i use this detail flag?

I recommend reading this:
http://digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/mapmaking/mappingconcepts

Detail brushes are covered in there. You need to know the why before you can use detail brushes effectively.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 03, 2008, 05:19:16 PM
I tryed, but i used different textures for the top-face of the barrels.
When i hit this detail-flag then there is just one texture on the barrel, and the other one
is "overwritten"... What can i do against it?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: jitspoe on February 03, 2008, 05:39:51 PM
Click on the barrel, then click the +det button at the top.  This will detail your brush without setting the texture.  Alternatively, you can hit "S", check "detail" and hit apply contents (or apply flags - not sure which one detail is).
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 03, 2008, 07:07:15 PM
Yes, the method works!!!

At the beginning it was a number of 15950 numportals, now its just 5018 numportals!!!
Thank you!!!
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: KiLo on February 03, 2008, 07:30:22 PM
/me awaits the next beta excitedly
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 04, 2008, 03:38:59 AM
I finally released sirois_grotto_beta2.bsp to zilla-clan. Here the link to download:

http://zilla-clan.net/upload/022878

I hope you will have a lot of fun with it, and we can soon play it all together...
Please tell me, if you wish something to be changed, or if you have any idea
how the map can be made better.

Thanks a lot for everybody who helped me in the forum!!!
Enjoy my map!!! :D
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: b00nlander on February 04, 2008, 04:17:01 AM
that's a very nice map, from the looks.  It still has to be play-tested, but from running through it, it may be a lot of fun.  You might wanna look at the water:  when you try to get out, you can get stuck, because the ground texture is overlapping.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 04, 2008, 04:40:30 AM
Thank you very much for this hint!!!
I corrected this. Download the corrected version of sirois_grotto_beta2.bsp here:

http://zilla-clan.net/upload/022878
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 04, 2008, 04:42:48 AM
Shall I delete beta1 from zilla-clan?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: KiLo on February 04, 2008, 08:43:25 AM
Okay r_speeds are a ton better. Now the only place where they are high is around that water. Around 4500 with reflective water on and 2500 with it off. Other than that when you are looking out from the 2nd flag I believe the r_speed there is like 1700 but not to bad.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 04, 2008, 08:47:11 AM
Is it ready to play though?
I tested it on my own PC with many bots, it works properly....
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: KiLo on February 04, 2008, 08:55:02 AM
I would say most likely yes but it is up to jitspoe whether it goes on the beta server or not.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 04, 2008, 09:01:12 AM
how can i play on that beta-server?
where can i find it?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: jitspoe on February 04, 2008, 01:05:02 PM
I'm sending you a PM.  I haven't had a chance to run through it and point out all the stuff that needs to be fixed, but I see several wood textures that need to be rotated and some crate textures that need to be scaled by -1 so the logo faces the correct way.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: sk89q on February 04, 2008, 01:12:38 PM
By the way, you set your map's gamemode key wrong. You are supposed to add together the numbers. 4 + 1 = 5
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: jitspoe on February 04, 2008, 01:26:33 PM
When I loaded it up on the beta server, some people were playing.  I just left the chasecam on and recorded while I did some other stuff.  Sometimes it's useful to see how other people play the map so that you can work on improving different areas.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 04, 2008, 04:01:08 PM
Oh, that gamemode-key was auctually wrong, because i did not want to have the deathmach mode anymore...
Thank you!

OK, that means working out beta3... ... ...
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 05, 2008, 12:29:54 PM
Today i have uploaded the 3rd Beta of "Sirois' Grotto" here the download-link:

http://zilla-clan.net/upload/977891

If there is no negativ reply left, it will be the final beta!
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 05, 2008, 08:08:30 PM
Aside from the high as WarWulf r_speeds, the map looks good.  For beta 4, make your barrels only 8 sided vs. how ever many they are.  This will help the r_speeds drop a little but I have not the faintest idea how to bring them down another 3000.  The are 5500+ in some places and this will kill so people's computer.  I do like the center area where there is an underwater tunnel though.  Reminds me of Tomb Raider.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 06, 2008, 08:10:19 AM
I was succesful dropping r_speeds using hints... the highest wpoly was now at about 4500...
Will it really kill the computer with those r_speeds??? I already played it on the beta server and nobody
complained about lagging or something... So do i really need to change it so hard?

And what is the difference between "final compile" and "final compile (high quality)" ???
Can i drop r_speeds using th high quality compile?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Garrett on February 06, 2008, 09:29:17 AM
Just do final compile.  The high quality compiler messes with the archrad I believe.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: ViciouZ on February 06, 2008, 11:29:01 AM
High quality shoves a load of extra options into arghrad, meaning a much longer compile time, if it even compiles, because it usually results in a max_patches error.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 06, 2008, 03:07:09 PM
I did my really best fixing the r_speeds...
The result is beta 4!!! It is including better texture alignments and a more different flag-capture for the blue team,
because at the beginning it was realy not difficoult enough in comparison to the red flagcapture-task...

Here the download link:

http://zilla-clan.net/upload/624851
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: jitspoe on February 07, 2008, 12:58:11 AM
I've put beta4 up on the server and made a little demo pointing out some things you might want to tweak.
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: Sirois on February 07, 2008, 04:08:02 PM
Thanks a lot for pointing out the stuff!!!
It is really helpful... Working out beta5 now...
Title: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Final!!!
Post by: Sirois on November 30, 2008, 10:42:37 AM
Hi all!

Maybe some of you remember my my last release Sirois' Grotto...

There where different things that needed to be fixed,
well i found some time and fixed it, so it's Beta 5 now...

Screenshots / Download here:
http://maps.digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/map/sirois_grotto/

I hope it is ready to be played now, id did my best to
fix the r_speeds... I used hint-brushes and so one...
But still they're sometimes 3000+  :-\ But on LAN-Parties
and even in the Net it made no difference to the performance...

I hope that you will have fun with Beta 5 and that it will be the last one, so that i can start my new project:
Sirois' Bunker ;-)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: KnacK on November 30, 2008, 10:44:00 AM
Pics?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: Sirois on November 30, 2008, 10:47:23 AM
View some of the Screens here:
http://maps.digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/map/sirois_grotto/
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: T3RR0R15T on November 30, 2008, 11:33:04 AM
Looks good, i like it :)


U should make the same barrels on each side. Especially the bases:

(http://dpball.dp.funpic.de/mapbilder/sirois_grotto/sshot019.jpg)

(http://dpball.dp.funpic.de/mapbilder/sirois_grotto/sshot020.jpg)

(http://dpball.dp.funpic.de/mapbilder/sirois_grotto/sshot018.jpg)

(http://dpball.dp.funpic.de/mapbilder/sirois_grotto/sshot021.jpg)



And some bugs:

(http://dpball.dp.funpic.de/mapbilder/sirois_grotto/sshot017.jpg)

(http://dpball.dp.funpic.de/mapbilder/sirois_grotto/sshot022.jpg)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: abnormal on November 30, 2008, 12:44:36 PM
OOOOO Really nice!! So many details, nice lighting :)
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: Sirois on November 30, 2008, 01:55:31 PM
Thank you sooo much for your ideas! I will change it right now and than we will have Beta 6 out...
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: Sirois on November 30, 2008, 03:01:38 PM
OK, Beta 6 is online!
I changed everything you pointed out.
Thank very much! Hope it is now a bit more suitable for you.
Title: _
Post by: Dirty_Taco on November 30, 2008, 07:31:06 PM
Post removed
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: Sirois on December 01, 2008, 05:23:04 PM
OK, i added some clip-brushes to the bases with the "vine-like" textures...
Impossible to camp there unseen now...
I would not change too much now... I think its quite complete now... isn't it?

So it's Beta 7 now, available for you here:
http://maps.digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/map/sirois_grotto/
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: KnacK on December 01, 2008, 06:04:12 PM
How about shortening the name and just calling it Grotto_b7?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: Sirois on December 02, 2008, 01:22:20 AM
Why not? ;)

Well, are there any bugs left you want me to fix, or can i release the final version...?
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto Beta 5
Post by: Sirois on December 07, 2008, 04:28:55 PM
I shorted the filename like: grotto_b7 like you told me...
I hope thats it now...
Title: Re: New Map: Sirois' Grotto
Post by: jitspoe on January 08, 2009, 07:52:53 PM
Merging these threads.

Sorry for the delay.  I've put beta 7 up on the beta server.  I think you need to make the water path faster somehow.  Right now, it's so much slower that it's not really worth taking.  Play testing may prove otherwise, though, so get on there and try it out.

Edit: It still had the full filename, though, so it's sirois_grotto_beta7, not grotto_b7.