Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: Dirty_Taco on October 21, 2005, 06:25:56 PM
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EXACTLY. 'no one cares'
perfect example is ganja.. he would ADMIT to hacking, and NO ONE would ban him from anything. NOBODY cares. hacking is completely accepted in this community and that's about all there is to it.
DP = Counterstrike. (hack wise)
that is all.
oh and as for the impact grenades.. no one will agree to take that off either because newbies out number good players by A LOT. and they love these grenades because you get free kills basically.
the grens will never be removed.. its just another aspect of dp that is now ruined.
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don't worry.. I still love you.
we can go play ruined DP together.
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yeah what dirtytaco said, he's right.
jitspoe seriously, take a look at your dp con pics and realize why no one wants to go. no one cares about dp you've screwed up, notice how more people went to cals cons than yours? thats right, extract the homosexuality out of dp or you'll just be left with people of the same sexual nature.
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the fact that people nonchalantly admit they hack means nothing. nothing is done to stop them. no anti-cheat will ever be implemented. the only good thing about the newbies out-numbering the vets is that most of the newbies don't go on the forums, so they really don't voice their opinions. i don't care if impact grenades stay in the game, but just make it serverside like it was before.
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signed
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+1
For those that disagree, you might consider having them turned off for matches only.
As for neo, I never thought you'd slink a little hack in your pack, but theres a first time for everything. I am fairly disappointed at you for doing it during a match. You may be disheartened to realize your worse than Iron, because you were caught. Enough being mean, good luck getting into the servers now :).
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Dirty_taco got owned by a noob and now he's crying.
hacking is completely accepted in this community and that's about all there is to it.
In real-life paintball cheating is also very common, i read about guys making it look like the paintstains got on their cloths by accidentally rubbing against a wall.
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Well smartass, if you can't get rid of wallhacks you can even the odds by playing in those glass levels.
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Ah, so now my claim is proven. You didnt read my post. I'm not trying to get rid of wallhacks. I'm trying to get rid of one of the two advantages clans can now use in matches. I explicitly stated that its impossible to get rid of wallhacks, therefore im trying to get rid of impact grenades.
You're going to do real well on the reading comprehension portion of the SATs 6 years from now when you're a senior in high school.
(http://meetmeinto.com/images/emotions/rofl.gif)
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Taco, Anger leads to hate and hate leads to the dark side, help you I will not, so kiss my ... and hope i don't blowdry your hair.
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Well i'm adding to this thread for two reasons.
1- I found out no more than a week ago that one could actually bind impact grenades.
2- Crossbones was mentioned in the intial post and most people know i lead that clan.
As stated in my first reason, i just just found out about those darn impact grenades when my team and i were getting smoked by team TNL. Our grenades wouldn't explode on impact, yet theirs would in a match and beeeeelieve you me we were getting pissed in the match. (YES we kept everything to mm2) So after asking TNL about it, they explained to us it was a bind and showed us how to use it. In all honesty, kills come a lot easier on those bottle neck maps but it indeed does take away a lot of the teamplay that i am used to in a match. I don't mind seeing those used in a pub server because i do get SOME enjoyment out of it however, IF for any reason these grenades don't get removed, perhaps as an un-written rule, we can just all agree to not use them in a match. (yes yes yes i know some people wont like that and wont agree to it so it's only a suggestion)
As for the players mentioned in DT's post, the one's that are accused of hacking, (accused, caught..whatever the case) I haven't personally seen any of this proof and i won't back up that claim unless i do see this proof. There are some kills that do see fishy but sometimes i kill people and they say i hack...which i hope everyone knows i dont. Therefore i take my ass whoopings and play again, do note that i don't usually learn from my ass whooping because crossbone's record went from 3-2 to 3-5 thanks to TNL.
In any case, if there's voting to be done, i vote that Impact nades get removed from at LEAST matches.
- MeRL
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I have heard rumors about nearly everyone cheating at one time or another. So I just think everyone and noone is always cheating all the time. In other words I essentially pay cheating no serious mind. If you cheat, you know you do, and I know I don't, so in our souls we know. I get MY ass kicked honestly!!!
I vote:
Be gone with impact grenades and all traces of them!!!
PS:
There were a few comments about neo cheating during a match, or disabling those impact grens during matches. How on earth can any of you practice or play pubs with certain settings and then match with other settings.
Shouldn't non-serious play be preparation for serious play, and thereby be done with the same settings and whatnot?
I REALLY vote for permanently making the settings: FFire = ON, Freeze = ON, and Impact Grens removed and destroyed permanently. And these setting enforced and FORCED on everyone!
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I never liked impact grenades..to me it is for noobs. As DT said and as others restated it destroys the game and any real team work, not to mention it gives noobs some easy kills. If people could place non impact grenades in smart spots where it would kill me or someone i wouldnt mind it. But trying to rush someone say on a 2 on 1 is useless with them on. I would like them taken out of dp, but as everyone knows that wont happen so i would agree with Merl about getting them taken out of matches.
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DT im sorry to hear you think I hack. I have better things to do than hack on a game played over the internet. I have played this game for six years and I know how to play it.
As for the impact grenades, I think they should be gone, they require no skill and any newbie can pick one up and toss and get kills. Hell I think the game would be better without grenades im general.
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Neo, to avoid flamefests with DT, I suggest you ask him to post the demo in another thread. So that then you both don't waste valuable arguments on circumstantial evidence. And, to your credit, you will have defeated DT on the forums by putting aside his charges and letting your peers be the judge of hack or not and restore your reputation. Which hencefar has been clean and respectable.
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It looks like there are 3 key issues here: bad maps, cheaters, and impact grenades being too powerful.
I seriously think we need to make the approved match map list a reality. Even if it's not very official, the next time a clan wants to match you on a crappy 1-path map, you can simply point them to the thread and say "Sorry, we only match on approved maps." I think I already started a thread about this. We should revisit it and start appointing map approval committee members.
I'm not sure about the other admins, but I will certainly ban anybody I find cheating on EV1. I have not personally witnessed much in the way of cheating, but I usually play on EV1 where sv_minclientbuild 14 is set. While you're petitioning, petition all server admins to set sv_minclientbuild 14, or play on EV1 and report any cheating to the server forums. We don't tolerate it. Build 14 won't stop all hacks, but it stops a number of them. And when it's only those that it does not stop that get reported, I can focus on methods to prevent them. Right now, it seems the only hacks that get reported are from people using Quake2/older builds.
Also, it should be a requirement that all clan members demo their matches and be able to provide them upon request. Do you have any demos of the event? I'd like to see them. Perhaps what I need to do is create a global ban list where cheaters can be completely banned from all servers.
Now, onto the grenades. Here's my personal stance on the issue: Grenades are meant to be powerful. That's why you can only carry one, and that's why only 2 spawn in each base. They're also modeled after the Tippman Squadbusters, which explode on impact (well, sometimes). I always felt that the timed grenades were practically useless. The only people who got killed by them were those unlucky enough to walk around a corner just as one exploded and dumb newbies who didn't know any better. Most of the time they were far too easy to avoid. It's fun to chuck a grenade at someone and cover them with paint. It's not fun to chuck a grenade at someone and have them hop merrily along to the other side of the map before it explodes.
Impact grenades aren't impossible to avoid. They're just more difficult. And for those that complain that they make it too easy for new players: is that such a bad thing? Back in the early days, the learning curve for this game was brutal. You'd have to play for a week or two just to be able to hit anything. That really drove off a huge player base. I think if the game was introduced in its current state back in 1998, it would have been considerably more popular.
I actually think having the choice of impact or time grenades adds to the game. There are different scenarios where each can be very useful. Those that complain about them on one-path maps -- that's the map's fault, not the grenades. Paintballs travel faster than grenades, and on well designed maps, a skilled player can shoot the thrower first.
Are there any specific things you have against impact grenades? Perhaps we can come up with a better compromise. DT's argument is that wallhacks + crappy maps + impact grenades = suck. Well, yeah, wallhacks + crappy maps + anything = suck. And crappy maps in general suck -- that's why we should put together some kind of committee (as stated above).
Another complaint I've seen is that people will just throw grenades at their feet. Personally I think grenade ffire should always be on, but not everybody wants that, so for the new version, I made it so grenades can always kill the thrower, regardless of ffire settings. There were complaints, and Picasso reverted back to an older version. Now I've made it so impact grenades can kill the thrower, but timed grens don't (if gren ffire is off). I've got the new version up for testing on EV1.
And lastly, there's the fact that grenades sometimes sling paint halfway across the map and kill people almost at random. I've fixed that, plus reduced the paint radius on the impact grenades so they need to be targeted more directly.
Perhaps things like the grenade respawn time should be increased a bit, or maybe have the grenades not respawn while people are holding them, so players would be unable to spam grenades (though I still say that's more of a map issue than anything).
To the whiners: I'm sorry for "ruining" the game by keeping it updated and alive instead of letting it die and rot like basically every other Quake2 mod out there. I'm sure everybody would have been rushing to DPCon for some old Quake2 mod that nobody played anymore. Oh, and gwb: you're the last person that should be complaining about screwing up the game, especially after that little hack distribution stunt you pulled. If the changes I make drive people like you off, I say good riddance.
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback. Try the new grenades on EV1 and see what you think.
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P!nk I am not argueing against DT, if he or anyone else wants to think I hack, then so be it. I know the truth, and I will just take it as a compliment.
Jitspoe, the match maplist isnt a good idea, some people prefer a small faster pase map, it keeps things more interesting instead of running around for an hour to kill someone. Maybe a tie map match list, but not for a clans first map.
Timed grenades are not useless, it just takes more skill to put them where you want. I mainly use timed grenades to force someone out of a hole or someother type of spot on the map. I hate all grenades, but at least take the impact grenades out of the game, they are pointless and require no skill.
They just piss people off, and take the fun out of the game. I personaly dont like running in a map and bam im dead as soon as someone throws a grenade, I would like to have a chance to defend myself from it, besides it the player is skilled he/she can place the grenade to where i would have to come towards his paint or luck up running away from it
Thanks Neo
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ok ok
i think that there needs to be differant gernades
say one with blue cap one with red
red being the old timed ones
blue impact
as of anyone in TnL hacking i do not belive this to be true
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You could run around the corner and get shot, too. No chance to defend yourself against that. How is it any different? Grenades move slower than paintballs, so there's more time to get out of the way.
Anyway, I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I just haven't really experienced the downside of impact grenades first hand. There may be some things we could do to better balance them out, though:
- Make grenades an actual "weapon" instead of offhand. In other words, you can't hold a gun while you have a grenade, but instead, picking up a grenade switches you to the grenade and when you fire, you throw the grenade.
- Require an actual spawn point for grenades. In retrospect, we should have done this from the beginning, but several maps were already done so we just had the grenades spawn in the bases at random. This would really only be an option for future maps, but I'm optimistic about newer, better maps, especially when the new map format is done. Old maps could still be updated with .ent files.
- Make the grenades in the base spawn at the server setting, and allow mappers to add additional grenades of their choice.
- Increase the spawn time for grenades.
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Lets just take grenades out of DP, like the er33t servers did at one point. Well i think it was er33t servers I dont remember, but the game is much more fun with no grenades, but come on jits you never even play the game, so at least take the impact grenades out, as you can see no one likes them :)
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Grenades are just fine. They're just overused.
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I play around 2-3 times a week, and I enjoy the impact grenades. The main reason I don't play more is because whenever I refresh the list, the only servers with people on are playing indune, pbcup, or blitz. And on a rare occasion, some other poorly-built, 1-path map.
I started up a thread for map rotation suggestions here, though:
http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1204.new#new
I still think this is more of a map issue than a grenade issue, especially after looking at the graffiti maplist, but hopefully we can get that changed. And I probably should up the grenade respawn time anyway. Really, if you're playing a decent map, grenades take just as much skill to use as any other weapon and can be easily avoided by another skilled player. Uni and I were playing 1v1 with pgp's and I was able to hit him much easier with a pgp than a paint grenade.
Also, I've been playing on the pubs tonight keeping a careful eye out for how the different grenades act and what's problematic. Personally, I found the timed grenades more aggravating. In 1-path maps they'd usually end up going behind you, with people spraying in front, so there was no good place for coverer, whereas the impact grenades tended to explode in front of you so you could jump behind something and avoid the spray and the grenades.
I find the impact grenades are not that difficult to avoid, but perhaps that's because I understand how they work internally. They've had relatively little play time, so I don't think people have had a chance to learn how to effectively use and avoid them yet. Or maybe it's solely the maps that are the problem. I went ahead and started up another approved map list thread here: http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1205.0
Anyway, it's not that I'm not listening. I just that I want to experience things first hand as well as get to the bottom of the real issue(s) at hand. Is it really the grenades? Is it that er33t lost a match and thinks anything that can be used to defeat them should be removed from the game? Were there really hacks involved? This would probably be better addressed in another thread or private messages, but I'd still like to see some demos, from either side. If it is the paint grenades, what specifically about them is undesirable? If bad maps are the issue, politely offer suggestions for the map rotation (http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1204.new#new).
Anyway, I still say you all should test out the new version on EV1. I'll try to get the new version to some of the other sever admins as well so it can be tested.
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First of all, I would like to thank Dirty Taco for addressing this topic. There has been a thread like this one before, but if not one of the good oldschool people starts up with something like this, it looks like it wont be heard.
Secondly, I am willing to sign this petition. Impact grenades are disliked by the majority of players I would say, not only those who arent used to it yet, but also by the newbies...
I never liked impact grenades..to me it is for noobs. As DT said and as others restated it destroys the game and any real team work, not to mention it gives noobs some easy kills. If people could place non impact grenades in smart spots where it would kill me or someone i wouldnt mind it. But trying to rush someone say on a 2 on 1 is useless with them on. I would like them taken out of dp, but as everyone knows that wont happen so i would agree with Merl about getting them taken out of matches.
Easy kills for newbs? No, most newbies dont even know how to bind them and they really never look into these forums... so they suffer a disadvantage. If you wanna call the TnL people noobs, then thats up to you, but they have been around for a while, dont you think?
The next point directly addresses jitspoe: you said you play on public server 2-3 times a week, but I guess thats only on your own EV1 server, or at least rarely on any other. Additionally, you dont seem to match, ever. So on public servers, for most people its not THAT important how well they do, they will just have fun, but in a match, its a really different situation. You should match a good clan for once and then see how these grenades change gameplay. I think making this a serversided option wasnt too bad, you could easily open your own EV1 matchserver I guess, and set impact grenades as default, but making it clientsided isnt so well.
Maybe one thing you might consider is reduce the delay time of the timed grenades instead of having impact grens, but as some people have mentioned here already, impact grenades work too much like, lets say, a rocket-launcher in quake... of course you can avoid it, but it will probably cost you lifepoints there, and so is the chance of getting hit by an impact grenade in digital paintball right now. I really hope that these will be changed or removed soon.
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I've got a demo from my POV of a recent match. eR33t is playing a match with 2 paint grenades per team, no ffire, no grenadeffire and no gun jamming (these are the options that 4/5 of the matching scene prefers) on the horrible 3v3 map that pbcup is. This was not our choice, but we're forced to play it (unwritten and respected 8 year old rule). This map doesn't have that many possibilities for gameplay to begin with, but a match with two clans of this caliber on this particular map typically follows this:
1.5-2 people make rush attempts over the barrels each round. Sometimes these are very fast no-air rushes from the trracer spawn or automag+brass spawn. Very few of the map actually gets played in the other team's spawned area, usually only if a rush of 2-3 forces him to retreat from the platform at the automag+stainless. Most of the match gets played around the crate with teams using a 75/25 mix of offense/defense. Primed grenades are used as devices to establish a rush, or bounced into someone sitting on the ice waiting to attack when his teammates come over the barrels. Typically there is a lot of hopping around between Platform->X or X->Barrels->X/Crate. This map follows a very individual oriented gameplay since orchestrating rushes is so easy that players who play strictly on pub servers can do it amongst themselves. eR33t even used it to match for a period of time a couple years ago when we were in the process of redesigning our teamwork, since it's an easy win if you have better shooting skills than your opponents.
However with availability of impact grenades the game becomes something like the following:
Teams play in their spawn area, refraining from using the middle of the map due to the likely hood that they'll be eliminated by an incoming grenade. The barrels and ice are used with the purpose to launch grenades into the spawn area of the opposing team or when attacking the team on an odd man rush. There's a lot of emphasis in hiding in the tower or behind the 'L' bunker because it provides great cover and an even better angle. Attacks are easily diffused by impact grenades that roll down towards the X and crate.
Sure this is 100% due to poor map design, but this kind of match play only hurts the community. As if picking this map already didn't extend team work further away from pball2, the use of impact grenades on this map has. I agree that an approved map list would be beneficial, but that's something that will take a few months to roll out, and if not done properly I can see a few players turning away from the mod. Clans aren't picking these bad maps because of the impact grenades, they're picking them because require very little teamwork to win and because they're proven to be an effective matching strategy. pbcup allows you to easily roll over a clan with weaker essential skills(running, jumping, effective aiming), while at the same time brings the playing field closer to even with clans that are of the same or slightly better essential skills but have a far better teamwork skills(sense of game, attack/defense balancing, ctf skills, etc.). Things like this shouldn't be changed overnight with a new build, but should be addressed carefully.
Getting pack to the main post, I think that the best thing to do for now is set the PaintGrens cvar on match servers to 0 to prevent the autospawning of paint grenades. Paintgrenades were never very popular in match play, there was always way more emphasis on teamwork, maneuvering and shooting. I would also like to see more strict match server settings. The match community isn't quite ready for fully strict settings (ffire, forced team-only chasecam), but things like observerblackout need to start being used like other games.
Temporary Link: eR33t_TnL_pbcup_Oct202005.zip (http://holm.homelinux.net/eR33t_TnL_pbcup_Oct202005.zip)
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my opinion: I think its right to lower the paint radius (like jits did ...Thank you very very much ;)...but i havent already tested the reduced radius) AND there should be timed nades but the delay time has got to be reduced (like boon already told).
P.S.: Anything for me but no impact nades.
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What if you lessened the explosive radius, AND allowed the grenade to bounce off the ground and explode shortly afterwards nistead of on impact. This would give you a little more time to advance or retreat judging trajectory knowing that a short bounce was to follow. This would also elimante the surprise grenade landing at your feet over a wall. Then on the offensive side of it you could plan to a single short skip of the grenade into an area. Deffensively you would actually have a split second to react. Of course a direct hit shoud alway cause detonation.
GET TO WORK JIT...MAKE IT SO!!!!!
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eR33t cant handle the fact that they are loosing lately
cry about it :'(
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Paint grenades, both impact and timed, can be a very powerful weapon. This is obvious by the heated discussion here, most people are saying the impact grenades are for noobs and they ruin this game.
Before I give my opinion let me explain something. I am one of the few people playing this game primarily on pubs only. I rarely match for any clans. But, I have matched and have been taught some things about teamwork, so I believe I can speak for pub players and clan players also, thus DT I'm expressing my opinion even though I'm not currently active in a clan (post #1). I consider myself proficent at tossing grenades.
My opinion:
The wallhacking is a given, until proven nothing can or should be done. Even when proven it'd be hard to enforce when anyone, at anytime can start a server.
The impact grenades are an awesome weapon, instant death to almost anything in that area. You talk about skill, I believe it does take skill to use the grenades effectively, especially the timed one. I know this post is about the impact grenades so I'll try to stick with those. I find it funny that a impact grenade can dominate a map. The reason it's funny to me is because it can stop rushers just as you talked about. I definately can see why rushers think this sux, but what I don't see is why people don't adjust the play to accomadate. A rusher can be stopped almost as easily with a timed grenade if done right. But when it comes down to gameplay and true skill.... yes I too feel the impact grenades so be choice as much as the jamming, ffire and grenffire. But just as some clans have found certain advantages with jumps, speed, etc., the impact grenades are more of an equalizer than any other weapon in the game. Both teams have the choice to use them equally, obviously both teams don't always choose to use them, that's a choice and not always a good choice.
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Well I think this tread has proven that the whole paintball community thnks the impact grenades should be removed, except for hobo and jits. So Jits maybe you should listen to would the community is saying instead of designing the game around how you think it should be and you only. You hardly ever play, and never in matches so please just remove the impact grenades it would be a great improvement, and if you could fix the ball speed again that would be great :)
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I think impact nades should stay :)
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Well I think this tread has proven that the whole paintball community thnks the impact grenades should be removed, except for hobo and jits. So Jits maybe you should listen to would the community is saying instead of designing the game around how you think it should be and you only. You hardly ever play, and never in matches so please just remove the impact grenades it would be a great improvement, and if you could fix the ball speed again that would be great :)
The problem isn't the grenades. The problem is the fact that 80% of clans pick maps that aren't grenade friendly and especially not match friendly. The map pbcup was only ever intended on being played at 1v1. It's not acceptable that it sees play at 3v3 and 4v4 in matches and 7v7 and 8v8 on public servers. On maps that have been designed well (layout, routes, etc.) grenades are not a problem at all, they work as strategic element as jitspoe has intended them to work.
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eR33t cant handle the fact that they are loosing lately
cry about it :'(
lmfao you had to logout and use a guest account to say that.. what a coward. you know we're better then you. YOU cry about it. * :'(
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Well I think this tread has proven that the whole paintball community thnks the impact grenades should be removed, except for hobo and jits. So Jits maybe you should listen to would the community is saying instead of designing the game around how you think it should be and you only. You hardly ever play, and never in matches so please just remove the impact grenades it would be a great improvement, and if you could fix the ball speed again that would be great :)
The problem isn't the grenades. The problem is the fact that 80% of clans pick maps that aren't grenade friendly and especially not match friendly. The map pbcup was only ever intended on being played at 1v1. It's not acceptable that it sees play at 3v3 and 4v4 in matches and 7v7 and 8v8 on public servers. On maps that have been designed well (layout, routes, etc.) grenades are not a problem at all, they work as strategic element as jitspoe has intended them to work.
aslong as there are newbies, small maps will be picked. seems like the only people who pick large maps in matches are people who have been around for a good 5-6 years. even 'top' (if you want to call them that) clans like tnl prefer ridiculous box-sized newbie maps over a skilled map like brainstorm, c1, battle2, etc.
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Hey! I've only been around for two years, and I dislike almost all small maps!
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Hey! I've only been around for two years, and I dislike almost all small maps!
well, I tip my hat to you then good sir. lol .. =)
but what I shoulda said was in matches.. clans may like bigger maps, but they'll choose a small map for a 'guaranteed' win I gues you could say.. because so much could happen in a big map. it could turn around at any point. where as in a small map its basically just kills, with minimal flag grabs.. teams go up by 1 pt almost every round, so its not really hard to hold your lead if you're up -- (less skill required, obviously)
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http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1207.0
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....Begins, then the flamefest. LOL.
Dont blame the weapons, adpat.
Anything else is " OMG I CANT OWN NOW bahahaa!!
I was told to be quiet about cheating unless i could prove it. :(
I speak for alot of newbs as taco will testify to.
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Ahhh so you can cheat on alpha, harder yes but possible. :( sad . So i guess the correct thing to do would be ban clans that have players that know how to cheat. :) jk Then go after those who share cheats. The only people responsible for cheating, are those those that know how.
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Then name them and we shall shun.
1. ironfist. leet geeks guide to game hacks.
2. lOIAL'S INSANE SUCKBOT
Good post Iron now rat those bastards out.
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Alright well i read through the first two pages of posts and got tired of hearing the same thing over but what I did see and personally 100% agree with is a post by S8N. in which he suggests that perhaps a small bounce of the grenade would offer a better chance for reaction and perhaps a better strategy required.
I actually like both versions of the grenades when used wisely. On a map such as midnight, i like to be able to bounce my grenades (when attacking enemy base from the bridge area) but on other maps i like to have them impact instantly. Thus why i have both bound to different keys.
But I like the idea that S8N provided and I would like to see something like that implemented.
Just for the record Jit, you didn't ruin this game, if anything you've made it a heck of a lot better. Some people simply don't know how to be thankful to be able to enjoy a ****FREE**** online game. I'm certain that 99.9% of the community will agree with me on that
- MeRL
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"The only people responsible for cheating, are those those that know how."
lmfao
No, actually anyone with half a brain can type one word into google and get a perfectly good working wallhack with the alpha builds. The wallhack explains how to use it as well. Knowing how doesn't make you morally responsible in any respect, commiting the act does.
I understant you point, but my was ignored ,ty. Knowing how makes you part guiltly.
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Lmao, from reading this thread when it was just 3 posts and to now is funny.
Several good points have been made. In all honesty I believe impact grenades require no skill at all. Yes, I use them time to time when I play because it's a good way to get kills. What's sad is that when you play now, the first reaction to someone when they spawn is running right for the grenades instead of the guns. What else is sad is when you're in play the first reflex of the newbies now is to throw a grenades then evade.
Enforcing some type of matching maps would do the community good, but that won't change the fact that impact grenades require no skill.
Now as for eR33t crying cause we lost a few matches... Lets just say this, those were the first two losses we've had in 2 years straight. Woopdy do. We matched one we lost to and decimated them the next day. The fact that you think you can hang in anyway is laughable.
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I wanna own some people up in the pubs, how do i make my grens impact?
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Bind (key) "tossgren impact"
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Lmao, from reading this thread when it was just 3 posts and to now is funny.
Several good points have been made. In all honesty I believe impact grenades require no skill at all. Yes, I use them time to time when I play because it's a good way to get kills. What's sad is that when you play now, the first reaction to someone when they spawn is running right for the grenades instead of the guns. What else is sad is when you're in play the first reflex of the newbies now is to throw a grenades then evade.
Enforcing some type of matching maps would do the community good, but that won't change the fact that impact grenades require no skill.
Now as for eR33t crying cause we lost a few matches... Lets just say this, those were the first two losses we've had in 2 years straight. Woopdy do. We matched one we lost to and decimated them the next day. The fact that you think you can hang in anyway is laughable.
adapt and overcome is all i expect from the leet jumping geeks. gg tonight bOOb you even said ns to someone, you have come along ways vice=president
Impact grens have slowed down the every rushing sometime camping winners of DP. :)
Loial/Bob '08
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I've been given a hard time about the way client side impact/timed grens came about. If it isn't obvious, this was not the way I intended it. I implemented the client-selectable grenade option sometime after various discussions from which I gathered that giving the player the choice of what grenade to use was the most favorable way to go. I was planning to have the options in the next major release. In fact, it's already in the menu for build 16. Unfortunately, some people figured out the command before it could be released properly.
Anyway, I guess we may have to agree to disagree here. I've started a thread about primed grenades (http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1236.0), which I think would be a good compromise. If you don't think so, please give your reasoning in that thread.
I personally think the reasons for disliking impact grenades are severely exaggerated. I watched the demo bain posted and even played that very clan on that very map. I saw nothing to the degree of spamming 3 grenades at a time. In fact, I would go so far as to say I did not see grenades thrown any more than with the old timed grenade system. I felt the grenades actually offered a refreshing change to the perpetual lines of paint in that cramped map. They're effective for offense, too. In the demo, there were more offensive kills than defensive. Also, it wasn't like the only kills people were got were from grenades. Grenade kills were by far in the minority.
I'm also curious what constitutes a newbie. ER33t seems to think anybody who has been playing for less than 6 years is a "n00b" (or some other variation of the word), and should any such n00b defeat them, it's obviously a flaw in the game. Bob needs a newbie to teach him how to throw grenades, 'cuz it looked like he had too much skill to be able to hit people effectively, lol. :) (sorry, but that was just funny).
Anyway, as Hobo pointed out, the impact grenades can act as an equalizer. So new players can get kills with them. Is that such a bad thing? Personally, I think the game should be geared more toward teamwork than raw skill, but maybe that's not what the community wants (I set up a poll here so you can express your opinion on the matter (http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1237.0)). That's not to say I want to completely remove any skill involved in the game, but things may shift around a bit as we try to find a good balance. Like I pointed out in Blitz's thread, the game is still in development.
Lastly, I doubt the grenades had any effect on the map choice. People have been matching on cramped 1-path maps for years. It's nothing new, though it would be nice if it changed... And for the record, the wall-spraying strategy has been there since the QWPB days. I don't see how the new ball flight changed that. I used to be a wall sprayer myself, because it was too hard to actually hit moving targets with my ping.
Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm headed with this. Basically I agree to disagree and want to hear your feedback on the offered compromise (http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=1236.0).
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actually, impact grenades will have a huge impact on map choice. if you face a team which is doing really well with them, you will NOT choose to play the small 1-way map against them, but rather pick a map with several ways, few to none chokes and an easily accessible flag.
*points towards TnL
The problem really is the defensive power of the impact grenades when playing a map with a small entrance to the base, as you will find in many popular maps, so maybe those grenades will even do something good: force people to train different maps
*points to eR33t
Barely a use of impact grenades on castle1, as you will focus on grabs and shots rather than camping a narrow way to prevent the enemy team from grabbing.
I guess we will now have to live with the impacts anyways, so who knows what good they will eventually do, and: cmon eR33t, you can still own clans on their map even if they use impacts and use 1way maps ;)
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Lol, yeah I'm not use to throwing impact grens, so I just stick with the normal ones.
Now this is what I think. I think they were put in this game to make it easier for newbies to kill. Not the newbies who play in pub and that are in a clan and think they're good, but the ones who don't have 'always run' on and don't realize when they're trying to say something to the other team they're talking in messagemode2. I can understand that, but when it comes to a point when that's all a team can rely because that's how their gameplay evolved, something needs to be done.
No to what b00nlander just said, eR33t didn't always choose Castle1. For the longest time was had chosen pbcup as our standard 3vs3. Yes, we can still own them, wait, we do.