Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: Eiii on February 17, 2008, 03:45:18 AM
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Since Viciouz requested that I remake this for what I'm sure are super-secret reasons, I remade this. It's mostly completed, and has no issues that I can see (except for the awful design, but that's known and accepted).
Sshots up soon, for now I've got a TF2 game to get to.
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I like the layout and the game play would be fun but those r_speeds are high and WarWulf. You are going to have a hard time lowering them too because there is no real good way to lower them that wouldn't affect the game play and the look of your map. You already knew this though.
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Garrett, I think you need a bit more experience and attention to detail before you start giving out advice!
Eiii, the r_speeds are tremendous, but there are tricks you can try to reduce them, even on a map like this which is completely open.
- The barrels are 16 sided! While they look nice and smooth in the game, they add a lot to the wpolys. Im sure you could get by halving the number of sides on the barrels, the accepted number is about 8 sides on most maps.
- While they are detailed, the barrels intersect the ground brushes and so are carving them up. gl_showtris 1 will show you this. Add this to the fact that the barrels have 16 faces which are splitting the brushes up, adds up to a lot of unnecessary wpolys. You could try the reducing poly counts stuff on www.gamedesign.net, or try making the barrels that intersect the floor func_walls as entities don't break up brushes.
I've just had a quick punt at this (I had to decompile it, I hope you don't mind) and managed to drop 2000 w_polys:
(http://zilla-clan.net/upload/images/11676_sshot119a.jpg)
All without altering 'the game play and look of your map' (short of not actually lighting it, I couldn't be bothered waiting for that to RAD).
Otherwise, could be good fun, we'll probably put it on the pgp server.
- Dagless
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subsequently, since it's one big open space basically, after making the barrels 8 sided you could also make some of them func_walls to keep them from carving up the ground
EDIT: Nevermind, should paid more attention to dagless's post, :P
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You mean, like Dagless said? :D
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Quiet you, I wasn't paying attention
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I was thinking about func_walls, and tested them, but then the barrels don't cast shadows. And are hideous.
gamedesign.net is down, but I don't think any of their tips work for me- then again, I haven't read them in a while.
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It isn't down, you just need to register to view it now :-)
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ahh yeah, annoying. Try the username for it on www.bugmenot.com if you don't want to register, it works ok for me last time i tried.
In that case, what I'd do is make them all 8 sided, phong shade them to keep the sexyness,then use the carving tool to carve the bottom barrels along the plane of the intersecting ground brush. This needs to be perfect, so make the carve points on the exact corner points of the face which is intersected. Then raise the barrels 1 unit so they are floating off the face. This way they won't split the brushes and should look ok.
- Doc
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Just finished clipping them all one unit above the ground, and it looks okay. I'll post in a minute.
EDIT: Here it is. Looks the same, but the r_speeds are down to 2k on average, and there's a super-cool easter egg. :3
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I've put it up on the beta server. See PM for details.
- All of the yellow barrels are misaligned.
- Some of the spawns are facing the wrong way.
- Slight misalignment on some of the lights (maybe the brush is a unit or 2 to small) near the center.
- I'd cut down the number of polys on the barrels.
- Might want to scale up some of the textures as well (especially the rock texture, since it tiles a lot anyway).
- Maybe put a flag up over the pit?
- Could use some more work to make it natural looking (especially the rock walls, which are all flat with 90 degree corners).
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A flag over the pit would be nice, but I couldn't figure out/remember how to make it so that you can't stand on flags to control the point.
I was going to do the walls last- no guarantee it'll be any good, though.
And on the barrels; D:. I believe a script can do that for me, but I've no time to write it now.
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Try just adding gamemode 16 to the flag and put it over the brush with the classname 'hill', I believe that's what I did in my Oh Ship! KotH map.
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Did that- if you stand on the flag, you get points.
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You mean just make a flag that does nothing? func_model.
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D'oh I misread, yeah ViciouZ's idea should work, are you wanting flag for aesthetics?
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you know what would make this map fun?
ICE
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You mean just make a flag that does nothing? func_model.
In KoTH, the flag changes to the color of the team that controls the "hill" so that wouldn't work.
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Why not duplicate the model and rename it something else?
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Because it wouldn't animate with the hill, which is what I want it to do.
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Put the flag there but stick a clip brush arount it :D
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No. :D
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Bump with map!
I fixed the yellow barrel misalignment with a Python script, made the walls a tiny bit interesting (but I'll probably work on them more), and fixed the one wrong-facing spawn. Lighting in this version is awful- anyone know how I could get believable moon/night lighting? I can't seem to make anything that looks right with the lights I'm using.
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Just use sun lighting with a low _sun_light value and a slightly blue _sun_color.
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That's what I'm doing. It doesn't look good.
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Not sure if this will work the way you want it to, but try a black fog.
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Black fog no, but a dark fog at the right density looks incredible. New version up soon.
EDIT: Up'd. This be RC1.
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Still needs more light. It looks dark on my laptop, and my laptop screen is even brighter than my desktop. Maps like these cause people to crank up their gamma and make the whole game look crappy. :P
Also, you need to set a message in the worldspawn. I'd throw a flag in the middle even if you just put it in the pit. It's nice to have an in-map indicator that somebody is on the hill.
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Mmkay. The message and such will all be done for the actual release, and I'll stick a flag down there- but are you sure there's no way to make a non-hill flag that still reflects the state of the game?
I'll crank up the lighting some, as well.
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I don't think there is, but I'm on my laptop so I can't check for sure. I played it on the beta server today, but it wasn't very popular. I tried to get the guys to post some feedback, but I think the only English words they knew were "bad map".
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Hey, the only current KOTH map is King of the Ship, and I'm pretty sure this is a step up from that. ;)
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Bump + map. I'll throw in a screenshot or two, as well.
I brightened it up 20 or so. I'm aware that it's dark- it's supposed to be dark. It takes place at night. You know, when there's no sun.
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I've put it up on the beta server. I'm not sure if I like the fog. Makes it harder to see on an already hard-to-see-on map, plus it looks out of place with such a clear night sky. You might consider adding some lights around the ledge area as well. Did you increass the brightness of the lights or the "sun"? It doesn't really look much brighter to me. You may want to take a look at the kots1 worldspawn to see the settings I used for moon light there.
Edit: I just compared the brightness of this map to midnight - you definitely need to brighten it up.
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Just took a look at it on a lower-quality monitor, and now I definitely agree with the brightening. I bumped up the sun by the way, but I think most lights will be changed for the next beta.
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I love this map btw, looks great on my LCDs but I'm sure brighter won't kill the setting, Good work Eiii.
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Brightened some more. This good?
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Better. I think it could still stand to be brightened some more. If my hardware weren't being so stubborn, I'd hook up my old monitor to take a picture of it. It still looked a little dark on my new monitor, which is really bright, so I imagine it's going to be difficult for some people to see on. I'd also consider dropping the fog density down a little.
Also, the spawns facing the wall are rather annoying. Takes a couple seconds to get oriented, and time lost is points lost in KOTH. I'd make all the spawn points face the center, or at the very least, face the openings of the bunkers.
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I'm pretty sure all the spawns ARE facing the correct way- I just checked in BSP. Could you take a screenshot of the area you're talking about? I'll crank up the brightness some more as well.
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Here's a screenshot of what I mean.
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yea im one of those people that have a monitor that in dark. most on propaint1 i play with gl_brightness 2 or gl_brightness 1 just so everything is clear enoguh to see! i played on yours and the only area i could see well was where the flag is. and thats with gl_brightness 2!
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Honestly, if your monitor is that messed up there's not much I can do for you.
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yea im one of those people that have a monitor that in dark. most on propaint1 i play with gl_brightness 2 or gl_brightness 1 just so everything is clear enoguh to see! i played on yours and the only area i could see well was where the flag is. and thats with gl_brightness 2!
just go bump up your gamma, I guarentee you you don't have it at the highest setting yet if that's how you're playing
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Brightened even more, and darkened the fog to match the sky better. Unless there are any major issues, this is the final.
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I put it up on the beta server. It's better, but some areas of the map could still use more light (like I think you could stand to add some actual light fixtures between the wall area and the center of the map). You also still need to set the map title, and there are some funky strips of colored light next to some of the barrels, but I don't know if there's anything you can do about that (looks like it's just a compiler glitch). I noticed one of the yellow barrel stacks was sticking into the wall slightly. Also, I think your yellow barrels are still misaligned. They need to be bumped down a rung. The corner spawns still spawn you facing the wall.
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The light splotches appeared when I phong'd the grass in that area. I'll check out the barrels more later- they looked fine to me earlier.
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Well, they look OK with the low res textures, but they have potential to look bad with the high-res versions, where you can distinguish the top edges of the barrel from the bumps in the middle.
You might remove the phong shading on the grass there - I doubt it makes much of a difference, and looking flat is probably better than having huge streaks of colored light. Also, make sure you're using a different phong value from the barrels.