Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Topic started by: jitspoe on October 31, 2005, 06:43:25 PM
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In past discussions about impact vs. timed grenades, people have suggested primable timed grenades. The basic idea is this: Instead of instantly throwing a timed grenade which explodes after 2 seconds, giving the enemy ample time to get away, you can prime the grenade and hold it for a portion of those 2 seconds, during which you cannot shoot. For example, you could prime the grenade for 1 second, and it would explode 1 second after you release it. If you hold the grenade for the full 2 seconds, it will explode and eliminate you. In fact, to prevent cheap tactics, I think it would be best to have it so primed grenades can always eliminate the thrower.
Please give detailed responses as to why you think primed grenades would or would not work well. Include hypothetical scenarios if you can.
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Post removed
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Hey Jits,
This sounds like the probably best solution for greandes.
Its better than normal timed grens, and u cannot throw impact grenades, except ur freaky enough to hold it 1.9 seconds.
But if u try this and fail, ur dead, so most people wont try it which reduces the use of impact like grenades.
Best thing would be to test it ingame.
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How will the release of the grenade work exactly? If it's pushing a key twice, newbies can't handle this and will eliminate them everytime they throw a grenade. Not quite newbie-friendly ;)
But I like this solution!
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I think he means, let"g" be ur tossgren button,if u hold it 0.1 seconds the gren will explode after 1.9 seconds.
If u hold it 1.9 seconds, it will explode after 0.1 secodns.
If u push the key for 2 seconds, ur dead :P
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Well, there are two ways I see that it could be done:
1) Bind a key to something like +tossgren. When you press the key down, it starts priming, when you lift the key up, it throws. This would effectively be the same as the old tossgren key with the exception that you could hold the key down longer to prime it more. A quick press and release would be the exact same thing as the old timed grenades.
2) Switch to the grenade and press the mouse button (or whatever your +attack key is). Pressing down primes the grenade, releasing fires it.
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Well in America's army, (yes again) primed grenades offer the largest advantage.
You toss timed gren, grenades lands click click click boom. In those few seconds you have a great chance of escaping the blast radius. Highly ineffective.
You toss a grenade set to explode on impact this ruins any chance of ricochet the gren and having it exploded where you want.
Siege Castle,
I have just climbed spiral stairs and jumped off said stairs and is going for cap, but wait we all know some one is camping that flag. In this case with instaburst I can't reach that person with my instaburst due to it not bouncing as well as one that can be cooked. Or if I have used a timed grenade allthough I can toss to the most effective area this gives the enemy precious few seconds to leave blast area of effect. I assume with a cooked grenade I can not only bounce the grenade off objects further than I could with an impact, but also time it to where perhaps the enemy will have unless chance to escape as with a timed grenade.
On top of all this I dont know but perhaps a sound file associated with the toss of grenades.
This goes with smokes 2, No reason I cant go around holding a smoke grenade while its smokeing.
You would cook by holding down fire button and then toss by letting go. Just like any other FPS with cooked grens.
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well yeah mouse1 (+attack) would be cool.
So u can keep moving with ur left hand (w,a,s,d, and ur jump key).
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Switching between gun and grenades would be cool. This will make paintball more CS like.
btw: Can you add an animation for throwing a nade? Because throwing a grenade right from your chest without using hands looks kinda wierd.
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Switching between gun and grenades would be cool.
agreed.
This will make paintball more CS like.
Uhm, i hope dp is NEVER getting like CS. If u want to play cs, play it, but dp is hopefully never getting like it.
The idea is great for dp as its reduces the power of greandes, not that its becmoe more cs like.
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I meant, getting a grenade by pushing a key and then throwing this nade with +attack IS like CS. There are so many differences between Paintball and CS...
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Haha, I hadn't thought about smoke grenades, but it would be pretty funny for people to run around with smoke bombs going off in their hand.
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But it would be pretty funny for people to run around with smoke bombs going off in their hand.
They all die because of smoke poisoning :D
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Run over grenade, pick up grenade. Once the grenade is selected via the toss gren (which in effect brings grenade out of your slot an into your hands, you would need to hit toss green to reholster grenade. And using the attack button to throw also prohibits the use of the gun. Once ready to throw consult the book
" And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.' "
Five should be thy count.
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U said it MAKES dp more CS LIKE.
But thats not the right palce to discuss it because this thread is so much important for the gameplay in paintball.
So lets keep ontopic.
Im looking forward to the "new skill" mentioned by iron, so u can let them explode where ever u want it to be,whiche makes up new possibilities like reaching campers in some spots , and letting the grenade explode where it wasnt possible wit himed or impact grenades.
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Im looking forward to the "new skill" mentioned by iron, so u can let them explode where ever u want it to be,whiche makes up new possibilities like reaching campers in some spots , and letting the grenade explode where it wasnt possible wit himed or impact grenades.
My point thanks, for making it better said.
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Does anybody have a picture of a real timed paintball grenade? TiGeR (the guy who made castle1) talked about them ("cans o' whoopass" is what they were nicknamed), but I've never been able to find anything other than the tube/water balloon style impact grenades.
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well i didnt find anything usefull too, execpt this http://www.nshl.com/pics/whoopass.jpg,
maybe it helps u, maybe it doesent :)
Oh lol, if this is like grens will look like, lmao :P
but itisn a timed gren...
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jitspoe if someone can get access tippman has authentic military gear inky with paint, This the best so far
demo idk> look at it
http://www.specialopspaintball.com/articles/images/grenade2.jpg
http://www.specialopspaintball.com/articles/paintball_hand_grenades.asp?roiid=4482
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Still pressurized paint in tubes that goes off on impact. From the link you posted:
The earliest paintball hand grenades were actually explosive devices that used a charge to blast paint in every direction. Obviously, safety and insurance considerations (not to mention risk of wildfires) put a quick end to these pyrotechnic play toys.
I guess they don't make them like that anymore.
Edit: found one: http://members.tripod.com/~Mr_Tail/altweap/gren.jpg -- kinda dull looking. :\
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will try harder
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Please dont make the grens look like this ;)
I dont know why u want to change grendes models.They look cool as they are now.
Just my subjective oppinion.
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Questions:
1) Will these timed grenades explode in mid-air?
2) We will be able to "put the pin back in" to cancel a priming?
3) Could we pickup/catch a thrown grenade and throw it back?
4) Can we carry more than one paint/smoke grenade?
5) Can we carry a paint AND smoke grenade?
I really love this idea.
I think mastering this type of grenade will be tough for most, short of just throwing the grenade.
This will definately have an impact on gameplay.
Definately worth a try!
BTW i'm STILL getting eliminated by paint grenades LONG after they explode...like unrealistically long.
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I diddn't have time to read anything other than the initial post, but primed grenades to me are an EXCELLENT compromise. Great idea!!
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I dont know why u want to change grendes models.They look cool as they are now.
Well, the current models are for impact grenades. It doesn't really make sense for them to be timed. It would be kind of like using the autococker model for the pgp. :)
BTW i'm STILL getting eliminated by paint grenades LONG after they explode...like unrealistically long.
Yeah, Picasso doesn't have shell access to the servers anymore, so he can't upload the new version that fixes this.
To answer your questions:
1) Yes, unless it leads to super cheap tactics, in which case it may need to be tweaked.
2) No.
3) If the grenade hits you, it will explode, like the old ones do.
4) No.
5) No.
At least, that's how it will be to start out.
It looks like most people are in favor of this idea, so I'd better get to work. :)
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I diddn't have time to read anything other than the initial post, but primed grenades to me are an EXCELLENT compromise. Great idea!!
agreed.
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BUT there would be a great disadvantage.
Match scenario: castle1, 4vs4....all 3 teammates get killed --> 4vs1. The opponent team has got both flags and is cappin (near base). Im somewhere in the middle of the map. THEN I push and hold the "nade" button for 2secs (suicide) and the opponent team gets just grab points (no Captures!!!!)
what about this problem?
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ooo GOOD CALL.
/me brushes up on his suicide skill....pull pin....wait, wait, wait....BLAM-O...only flag grab points!
MAYBE....
if ((a round is ended by a suicide) && (the other team has the flag))
{
full capture points for the flag holding team;
}
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yeah, or just have the grenade do no damage at all to the person/anyone around it.. if this kind if if suicide -> cap points was implemented.. you'd need to include _all_ forms of suicide (drowning).. and perhaps even extend it to disconnecting (although this isn't much of a problem now adays)
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2 seconds may sound short, but in the game it's a reasonably long time. On a number of maps, it's ample time to get half way across the map. Suiciding is a bit of a gamble. By the time the grenade went off, the other team will likely have already capped, in which case, you'd simply be giving them another point. I could see this happening on pubs, but in match scenarios, I don't know that it would be much of an issue.
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Jitspoe, I know I dont mean sheet but the count should be 4.5 sec once pin is pulle. What is this two second crap. I need time to speed up "crow hop" if possible to bounce gren further in to thy naughty foes fanny + it gives a great advantage to the tosser. Here is how.
1. 5 vs 2 seconds gives the grenadier a wider options of combating. Now with that said you should have a .wav file for this, the tossing of grenades and the pulling of thy pins. Once pin is pulled,good luck. Unless its somke.
2 5 vs 2 seconds gives the grenadier a wider range of options to disengage. ;D
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...?
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You will agree with my post jits, maybe not now but later ;). Its possible that its going to happen often. But there are good points by others to stop that. But just without the argument about drowning. You need VERY long to drown. You cant make suicide as fast as by making "nade-suicide" or disconnecting. As said in posts of others, there should be full capture points for the flag holding team when someone makes suicide with his nade or when he disconnects
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In past discussions about impact vs. timed grenades, people have suggested primable timed grenades. The basic idea is this: Instead of instantly throwing a timed grenade which explodes after 2 seconds, giving the enemy ample time to get away, you can prime the grenade and hold it for a portion of those 2 seconds, during which you cannot shoot. For example, you could prime the grenade for 1 second, and it would explode 1 second after you release it. If you hold the grenade for the full 2 seconds, it will explode and eliminate you. In fact, to prevent cheap tactics, I think it would be best to have it so primed grenades can always eliminate the thrower.
Please give detailed responses as to why you think primed grenades would or would not work well. Include hypothetical scenarios if you can.
Terrible.
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The digi god has spoken, we must all bow down to his opinion because it is superior to everyone elses!
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The digi god has spoken, we must all bow down to his opinion because it is superior to everyone elses!
Who said it's superior? I was just stating my opinion. Nowhere did I say it was superior. YOU'RE the one who thinks he's the god of dp. You don't even play the game in my opinion. You shouldn't have the right to change things without experience. But meh, we all have to sit back and take it. I dont really care, because in reality, no matter how easy you make the game for yourself, it'll just be EASIER for me.
I love how you threw in that god joke. Unfortunately everyone feels that way about you, not me.
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PS -- I'm looking forward to the gorilla launchers. ;)
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Please give detailed responses
"Terrible" doesn't help much. Why do you think it's terrible?
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Please give detailed responses
"Terrible" doesn't help much. Why do you think it's terrible?
I think there's NOTHING wrong with the original grenades. Why haven't people been complaining all this time if they're so awful? You put out impact grenades and people are complaining left and right. Doesn't that tell you something?
"Don't fix what doesn't need fixing."
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...?
Glad you asked.
Lets say you just primed the grenade and a teamate for one reason or another gets in the way of the intended area of effect or for what ever reason you need to disengage and dump the grenade, having 5 seconds gives you more, safer options where to lobeth thy grenade, in a most safe place.
When using a primed grenade ideally you would like the option hurling it as far or as high as possable, in effect giving the thrower a longer range. Having a longer fuse gives you a longer range. Which in effect allows you to now safely toss or bounce grenades further.
Sorry I thought. I know it hurts.
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I've started working on this. I'm using the current grenade time, which is actually 2.5 seconds, not 2. It's plenty of time.
Right now it's set up to use +tossgren, but unfortunately, it didn't work to simply bind it because the client tries to interpret it as a command, so I had to make an alias:
alias +tossgren "cmd +tossgren"
alias -tossgren "cmd -tossgren"
bind mouse3 +tossgren
I can make it an actual command on the client, but that will have to wait until the next release. Other than that, all the basics pretty much implemented.
It's always fun to figure out the weird things that happen when something new is added. For example, the weapon firing was stopped when the grenade was priming, but as soon as the grenade was released, the weapon fired in ultra-fast mode to catch up.
Hehe, one of the most fun things to do with these grenades is go kamikaze: keep holding it and rush toward your opponents. It would be hilarious to have some new sound effects to go along with it. "ALALALALALALALALA!"
I've attached a couple demos for your viewing pleasure. :)
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Sweet.
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Test server up: paintball2://216.127.68.86:27916
At the moment you have to use an alias to get them to work. Type the following in the console:
alias +tossgren "cmd +tossgren"
alias -tossgren "cmd -tossgren"
bind mouse3 +tossgren
Replace "mouse3" with whatever button/key you want to use. When the button is pressed, priming starts, and when it's released, the grenade fires.
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Just "forced" a few guys that were on IRC to goto the server and play a round of roundup. The primed grenades definately do take some getting used to, since everyone is so used to throwing them at a keypress. A lot of the typical reflex grenade kills were eliminated because there were a delay on grenades thrown immediately, but with some patience the grenades could be strategically thrown (like towards the high path off of the main paths) so that they would suprise players passing by.
The one adjustment I quickly made was appending a hand-switcher to the +/-tossgren aliases so that it matched the behaviour of my hands while I shoot, but that's just a personal preference. I guess a grenade wind-up model will have to be made for the hands, not sure how all that would work.
As for the gun trying to catch up after a long grenade prime, looks like you fixed that becuase it didn't seem to be happenning to the cockers, didn't try with the pgps though.
Another thing that was noticed ont he server is the time in the socreboard counts down from -500.
I'd like to see what myself and others think after a few more maps, and once everyone get their alias bind working :)
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Yeah, that's all been fixed -- I just put up a demo to show the "fun stuff" I have to figure out when adding new features.
I'm not sure what's with the counting down from -500, though. Where was that? Perhaps it was just a side effect of the server not being used for a while.
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well, I have seen the negatives time count several times already, on different servers... didnt care much about it tho, as it will function properly after mapchange.