Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: Mister_Zimbu on February 07, 2003, 09:21:52 PM
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Impact grenades
A) They're lame! They're cheap! They take away the last element of skill the game has! Get rid of them!
B) I'm a stupid donkey and I like impact grenades. Keep them.
I vote A.
ps: Jitspoe... where the hell is the HTML formatting?
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I think my pubs are itching. Hold on..
Okay, I'm back.
I vote A. But I don't really care either way, since I never spawn near grens anyways :-/
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All right a nice non-bias poll.. umm let me see... if you want grenades your a stupid stupid donkey (b) and if you dont want them your a skilled pro (a)...hummm wow the poll taker really gave us a narrow-minded preconception of what impact grenades are(non skilled weapons in his distortion of the truth)....well since everyone thinks im ignorant anyway ill go with
B) I'm a stupid donkey and I like impact grenades. Keep them. ;D
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CURRENT TALLY
24-1 for removal of impact grenades.
I think this poll represents an accurate sample of the entire DP community and thus the poll is closed.
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Well since this poll sucks and there isnt the obvious "C) replace them with the old grenades), then ill have to vote B, cuz id rather have grenades than none at all. It takes away skill and requires less strategy to have no grenades at all.
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I vote D). Get rid of everything that everyone complains about!
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/me selects the paintball2 folder and hits delete.
Well, that takes care of that.
Heh, just kidding.
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Impact grenades
A) They're lame! They're cheap! They take away the last element of skill the game has! Get rid of them!
B) I'm a stupid donkey and I like impact grenades. Keep them.
Which to choose....?
Both seem correct.....
I'll vote "B" -- Zimbu *is* a stupid donkey.
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darn i must not be able to add 24-1 and i see 7 post what kind of math are we using ....oh yea the rocky and bullwinkle math method ill pull a rabbit out of my hat or was that a number out of my arse umm its one of the two anyway er33t is where we all mostly play cant they have pub1 with out grenades and pub2 with grenades just a thought l8rs Snipen
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lol, good point, Fem. I also choose B. ;D
Zim: I disabled icons to make the board load faster (they slowed it down quite a bit). For some reason instead of just having text links like the rest of the icons on the page, the formatting buttons completely disappeared. You can still manually use the stuff though, like bold, etc...
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I like the old grens.. I didnt have a single problem with them.. I liked the new effect the new ones make when they explode.. but I really havent had much of a chance to try the new ones...
But ill go with fem - B!
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Old grenades? Which ones are you referring to? The effect is just added on the client side.
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I dont know.. the ones that were around like when seige and BS and cfire were released that beta.. was it 4.5 ? I dont remeber.
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i don't get what some of you guys have against the grenades, they were there when DP started, they were there almost the whole way through and now..what..4,5 years later? some of you old school guys don't want it. it's part of the game, just like camping and spraying, what's the point in changing it? we've lasted through it thus far, keep it. grenades add a skill level to the game that takes away from spraying and other little excrement. suck it up, especially those who can't take getting killed by a grenade. If some of you disagree with it adding a different skill level, then at least it's a different way of getting kills and it's not all just spray and pray, this is more or less a toss and pray but it's a good add-on. Feel free to insult-complaine-cry-agree or anything other form of replying to this post that you can think of. -MeRL
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im gonna have to agree with him on that one.
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Okay, people seem confused. No one doesn't want grenades. People are complaining about the style at which they blow up now. They hit something and explode instead of bouncing and stuff first.
Word, hope that helps jigga.
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How about the ability to charge a grenade, but if it blows up in your hand you're out?
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I think Cal and I made the mistake of making this game TOO customizable. I mean, pretty much everything from the score limits down to the speed and behavior of the ball flight can be adjusted. This would be good if we had lots of servers running the standard settings, but we only have a handful of servers, and when the more popular ones run nonstandard settings, people think that's the way the game is supposed to be. The grenades are a perfect example. I've spent a lot of time trying to tweak them, but if the servers don't use those settings, I have no way to enhance their balance in the gameplay and whatnot. Also, for crying out loud, GRENADES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE POWERFUL WEAPONS! I mean, they're grenades. That's why you only get to carry one of them. Saying they're cheap is like saying the autococker is cheap because it shoots faster than the pgp. Well, duh. It's a more powerful weapon.
The current grenades are kind of a hybrid, I guess. Sad put them in. Supposedly there's a 1 in 10 chance they will explode whenever a surface is hit. I would personally like to stick with the straight-up explode on impact grenades and get those worked out so the game is more enjoyable.
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im wholely with you on that Mr. Jit. I'm glad the games creator decided to step in and let us know whats up. Paint grenades are fine by me.
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sorry Fornal, your right, i did miss-read it because it was only concerning impact grenades and i was thinking grenades as a whole. My apologies for that but i'm all for impact grenades. When we had the old grenades, yes it was cool and fun to use and sweet that you could bounce it off walls and such but lets all face it...that's not how grenades should be right? game or no game. Impact grenades add an element of surprise to the enemy..he no longer has time to run away and hide behind something which is good in my mind because it makes the game that much more interesting and this way, grens can actually do damage instead of simply a distraction. In simpler terms, keep the grenades boys, it just makes it more interesting. -MeRL
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Yeah. I really don't care either way about the grens, doesn't really make a difference to me.
But things like wanting to make guns less accurate while running is rediculous. Thats something RB wants to do. I would make another topic about this, but I already hit reply and I'm too lazy to go back now.
By making people less acurate by running, that will not add balance. It will make it extremely unbalanced and promote camping in one spot... and shooting a wall, just as you also hate.
Word.
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Jit makes a good point.. I thought allowing people to coustomize thier servers was a really good idea.. and it would be if we had more then 1 server used regularly.. but when that server takes something out of the game that should be there is stupid.. because of the simple fact that , that server will be the one new players play thier first game with alot of people.. and will get a diffrent impression of how the game is played then the rest of us did when we first started.. this isnt limited to grens of course.. just add them back im sure jit and sad will code the grens er33t wants when they have the time to..
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The whole losing accuracy when running thing was actually not my idea. I believe it was Anrkists. However I think its a great idea. And I dont think you comprehend the concept. Being able to have perfect accuracy AND run at insane speeds is unbalanced. If you are running faster than everyone else, everyone else should have better accuracy so as to be able to counter your speed, right? THAT is what is called balanced gameplay. That's the challenge. To balance the game so that it neither promotes speed rushing/random spraying or camping/streaming all the time. You want it to be so that you can do either of them and have the same legitmate chance, assuming equal skill levels, to compete. Right now its teetered towards the speed rushing/random spraying side.
And getting back on topic, I said the same thing before. Its nice to be able to customize so much, but then again, it probably only leads to people being able to find more ways to cheat or exploit something. Its nice to have, but in a way, due to the size of the community and how few servers there are, its probably better to not have so many customizable options.
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You don't have perfect accuracy, jitspoe added the player direction and speed to paintball in 1.72. Basically this means that if you are moving 50units/second towards 90° and fire a shot at 180° at the speed of the gun(I believe the cocker is approx 1320units/s) which you are using, the 50units/s at 90° get added onto that ball and it will curve accordingly. It's hard to notice that anymore since it's been in play for a while, but when it first came out it was really noticeable.
As for on-impact grenades, they are way too deadly. "Default" settings are set at 1 grenade per team, which seems reasonable, but when you take into account that a new one spawns 30s after a previous was picked up then you end up with too many in play. Since grenades don't automatically "return home" like guns and ammo, then perhaps you should make grenades only spawn after they've been used, to ensure that there are only 1*Teams maximum in play at one time. I also wouldn't mind to see them respawn after 60s like the guns, but if the other team managed to pickup a grenade that came from other team's spawn, don't spawn a grenade in the other team's spawn until their opponents use it.
Unfortunately the way that the grenades are now offer very little depth to any decent gameplay what so ever. If I hear a grenade being tossed from the other team, I usually hold off on my rush, unless I can see the smoke, then I continue. If I see a grenade land near me then my first instinct is to move out of it's blast radius, which either: removes my cover or gives away the position of my teammates and I. With knowledge of angles, speed and practice you can make some nice bounce-tosses on unexpected opponents to get them to move out into open(sandtrap is a favorite of mine for this). Impact grenades simply clear out entire teams in one shot and there is no chance to avoid them.
Power vs. Luck
Luck in terms of the autococker if pretty small compared to the grenades. Typically with guns you shoot when you are capable of seeing an opponent or you are spraying an entrance or area in which you know an opponent will be passing through. With that said, spray isn't luck. Spray isn't completely unavoidable, with experience you know where spray occurs and you can identify it from far away. The only luck surrounding spray is when an opponent runs through it once, or numerous times. It may be bad luck for the opponent that "falls into" as result of him mis-jumping but that doesn't really apply to the gun being considered lucky.
Non-Impact grenades typically have a mind of their own, the newer style ones(post-1.72?) no longer have fixed speed, as the speed of the players are also added to the grenades. This causes variations in path and bounces of the grenades and from time to time you will get a ban bounce that will be enough to eliminate you. These grenades however serve more purpose for strategic tools and are only deadly when then luckily strike a near-by teammate.
Impact grenades however offer no warning for arrival. Before you can react to one, it has already landed 3 feet from you and has killed two of your teammates. The only chance you have with an incoming one is that it hopefully lands behind you so the payload -hopefully- doesn't effect you. These grenades are more effective on the smaller maps because it doesn't take a genius to determine where the other team is going to be. On arctic if you launch one into the ice during the round chances are you will hit at least 1-2 unless the other team is camping the flag or in their tower.
Just my perspective and some ideas, feel free to contact me by email or on IRC about anything.
-XtremeBain
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Well, duh, if you're playing arctic then you deserve to be killed with a grenade. :)
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Everyone knows your the only one that would come up with that kinda crazy idea RB =p
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"If you are running faster than everyone else, everyone else should have better accuracy so as to be able to counter your speed, right?" <-- If you're better than everyone else, give them an advantage so that you're no longer better.. ugh...? ::)
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bain, i'll agree with you on most of your stuff said but the only thing that gets me is: pretend this isn't paintball...but more like live fire..your creeping up on an enemy base, he thinks he knows where you are so he tosses a grenade which lands 3 feet from you..do you believe that your going to have enough time to realize that there's a little roundish object about to blow another hole in your ass and move away? yes ok DP isn't real life, but having the grenades sit there and give you a chance to move before they explode is just sad. If you do happen to have time to move, more often then none, it'll force you to move somewhere where it leaves you open and gives the other guy an advantage.
-MeRL
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Polls suck
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Polls suck
I think we should vote on that... I vote yes.