Digital Paint Discussion Board
Digital Paint Community => Clans, Matches, and Tournaments => Topic started by: Brewsky on December 31, 2009, 01:11:21 AM
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In light of yet another 20 minute silent tie map suggestion standoff with Insane Junction, I have decided to make this post.
Lets lay down some basic matching etiquette. Most of this has to do with respecting other people's time.
#1: Know your team's map selection before you start a match, if you dont know one, at least make a top 5 list so you don't sit there and argue with your team while the other team suffers.
#2: If the match happens to come to a tiebreak decision, REFER TO RULE #1. You should always have several tie maps in mind WELL before a tie map situation arises.
#3: For the love of god, please suggest universal tie maps. Maps that are popular clanned maps. Maps that you think the other team may actually pick! Make at least 3 suggestions, but 5 is prudent and you will usually get a response. IJ played air1 for their map and then suggested air2 and air3.... really? Be realistic with your suggestions. And please don't pick random maps that the other team doesn't even know. If you know the suggestion is ridiculous, why even put it on the table?
#4: If you don't have suggestions, be the bigger team and pick the legitimate ones being put on the table. If you don't want to play any suggested maps and don't have any suggestions, dont match in the first place. This is some sort of new tactic being used by several clans out there. They just sit and play dumb until the other team decides enough time has been spent trying to find a middleground instead of actually playing the game.
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Actually Brew, -s2k invented this tactic. Go back to your roots bro. You changed.
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You actually passed pretty well with air2&3, try playing for instance ex and agree on tie map.
IMO, make a poll of 10 maps, 5 on top will be official tie map options. Also, all those 10 maps should be well know by any player. Thread than stickies and that's it, problem solved.
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propaint1, shazam22, airtime should be maps that are playable for every clan there is. Come on, they have been around for years, clans match on them every day. Personally I won't suggest airtime vs some clans, but only if I know beforehand that the tiemap would be boring (they get 1 point lead and discover the crouch button and find that you can throw pr0 [prime] nades).
But pbcup_pforest, pbcup_renoir, carpathian, castle1 make good tie maps too. For the same reason - they're popular.
I think that clans should select 5,7,9 maps that would go into tie map pool, and in every match where tie map is needed and cant be agreed some other way, the clans would remove maps 1 by 1 from that list until 1 map remains. But we already know that this is not going to work unless we get some help from jitspoe as well. The newbies wouldnt respect some random dplogin.com/forums thread, but if jits would make like www.dplogin.com/tiemap where the general etiquette would be found, then many problems would be avoided...
And dont tell me that making a small maplist for tiemap is going to take some variety away from the game. Naaaaah, I think the current tiemap choice is ~3-5 maps.
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6 so far, I agree on all of em. I even would stop at this point and make em official.
Also, Jits, you really should make somthing of this one out, it's not that you are poking your nose into match scene, it's to avoid putting pressure on clans regarind tie maps. I'll give you an example. We matched one clan, went to tie, they didn't wanted to agree on tie and because they had login, they just changed to their chosen map and didn't wanted even to discuss tie. This sort of things happens alot.
If you would make some ground rules, at least the other clan could have a chance to walk from the server with clean hands if they still wouldn't wanna play one of those maps.
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tie is shock or you ff!!
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And please don't pick random maps that the other team doesn't even know. If you know the suggestion is ridiculous, why even put it on the table?
+1
tie is shock or you ff!!
Thats like CSO sometimes. Oddjob or you ff...
We need an official map list and remove all other maps from the normal maps folder. Maybe some old, classic maps and all maps from the "Completed Maps" board.
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In q everytime we get to tie against any clan we just say: "pp1 or s22?". Not because we're especially good in any of those maps but just to solve things quickly. And I have to say that most clans immediately pick one of those and we just play.
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lawl has a massive variety of map choice, our tie-map situations never take long because we have such a wide range of variety in terms of skill, size and gameplay. We never normally choose airtime1, sh22 or pp1 either.. unless it's a strange clan who will only play them... :/
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Just like terrorist sed we need a map list for matches
MY opinion ( 5 match maps )
1.Shock
2.Prolandr
3.Pbcup Renoir
4.oddjob
5. PP1
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Just like terrorist sed we need a map list for matches
MY opinion ( 5 match maps )
1.Shock
2.Prolandr
3.Pbcup Renoir
4.oddjob
5. PP1
I`ve heard shock is the best map. Oh yes and a pgp map..:)
Cap0ne, do you take speed or smthing?
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Yep, we suggested about 4 common maps at first (even a lining map for them)- c1, pforest, renoir, strap
They suggested a2, a3. Eventually they suggested xbmap1. We decided they're gonna be idiots, so we chose xbmap1 just to get it over with. After we agreed to xbmap1, they refused to go to it. Finally after waiting for them to waste more time, they then say bombsaway or nothing...
....ya, that's their clan tactic.
and p.s. I agree about a list, but why not more than 5, so that we can fit maps from all skill levels in there. Right now capOne I only see one good map, we should have enough for everyone to enjoy :)
If people are really wanting ideas to find maps, why not a list of 10 maps, and then have rule of elimination.
Ex: Team a:not map 1, team b: not map 6, team a: not map 9, etc. etc. until there's 1 map left. That way it would be an equal map for both, and no favorite maps...
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There shouldn't be an "official tie map" or even a "official tie maplist".. Lets think about this realistically - when new maps come out, some clans might want to play them for a tie. But if they aren't in the list, they can't play them.. That's not really fair, is it? Also, what if a clan doesn't like any of the "official tie maps"? More problems will arise. Rather than having more and more problems appearing because of this, just keep it as it is. An odd thread appears every known and then, and nothing comes of it. So why should anyone bother with this?
I just can't see any problems with the current method now. If a clan refuses to choose a map, end the match in a tie. Simple...
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I`ve heard shock is the best map. Oh yes and a pgp map..:)
Cap0ne, do you take speed or smthing?
take speed or something? you mean drugs or speedhack or something else?
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There shouldn't be an "official tie map" or even a "official tie maplist"..
I've never said "official tie maplist". I mean an official map list. To sort out the ugly ice-speed-jump-camp-leak-nonvis maps.
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I've never said "official tie maplist". I mean an official map list. To sort out the ugly ice-speed-jump-camp-leak-nonvis maps.
i get some sort of feeling you dislike wobluda. :)
And regarding an official maplist, it's probably not a bad idea to put one in. I still think its way more fun to play some random map i havent even ever played so its more exciting to have to learn the map while playing. I'd rather play some random map than a map ive played 100+ times where all i do is the same speed with the same lines camping the same spot so I can win some match. Especially in a game where it takes one shot to kill someone, when everyone knows the map like the back of their hand, its just a matter of who can go through ice faster, do dumb tactics better, and essentially keep your cursor on one point longer. Yes, carp, pp1, s22 and all those maps are extremely well made, but it just gets boring doing the exact same thing every match. It just makes it more frustrating when you lose.
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i get some sort of feeling you dislike wobluda. :)
And regarding an official maplist, it's probably not a bad idea to put one in. I still think its way more fun to play some random map i havent even ever played so its more exciting to have to learn the map while playing. I'd rather play some random map than a map ive played 100+ times where all i do is the same speed with the same lines camping the same spot so I can win some match. Especially in a game where it takes one shot to kill someone, when everyone knows the map like the back of their hand, its just a matter of who can go through ice faster, do dumb tactics better, and essentially keep your cursor on one point longer. Yes, carp, pp1, s22 and all those maps are extremely well made, but it just gets boring doing the exact same thing every match. It just makes it more frustrating when you lose.
that was the word i was searching
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i get some sort of feeling you dislike wobluda. :)
Yes.
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I think coming up with an official maplist is unrealistic and should not be part of Jitspoe's business. We had a tie map list in a couple of the working leagues that completed a full season, but it only worked because there were rules and they could be enforced by removing clans from the bracket.
We are talking about random clanning on a day to day basis, which is only regulated by etiquette, nothing else. The best solution in my opinion is to come up with a map randomizer. Something that both teams can see the results of at the same time. I'm sure its possible to make a script in IRC with a full list of paintball maps and put it in a paintball match channel for everyone to use. Type something like !tiemap and get your tie map randomly generated. No arguments or excuses. I would say if this is possible, the only rule should be no one map is played twice in a match. If the tie map generated was played as one of the first 2 maps, it is discarded as a possibility and you use the generator again.
We have random eight ball generators and random quote generators... I'm sure this can be done. A larger variety of maps will get played and it will keep things interesting. The main issue here is TIME. Most arguments arise during tie map selection, so with an unbiased approach I think this could make matches much more enjoyable.
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But not every clan in dp is on IRC.
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If you aren't on IRC you aren't even noticeable. IRC is the hub for this game, please don't make a stupid excuse for why this shouldn't work.
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Official maplists or tiemaplists are dumb. Theres plenty of maps out there, it's just not every team picks them. Teams pick maps they think they have the advantage on the other team. Where their strategy or teamplay or whatever is better. It could be an ice speed map, a slow camped map, an overplayed map etc. But thats why each team gets to play a map of their choice. If your team wants to be creative then choose something fun or try something new/old. Maybe other teams will like it and start trying it. Obviously maps with secret teleports and glitches shouldnt be allowed, but a regular map should have no problem for a teams choice. And I agree, it shouldn't take 20 minutes to pick ruggedcountry. Everyone who matches should know who that's towards.
For tiemaps; i've found s2k and Ij being the hardest to decide with. Although s2k isn't bad anymore, they used to be way worse when it came to tie suggestions. Some new or random maps can be suggested and all, but people should be reasonable and choose more common maps that both teams would know and be good at. BTW: propaint1, airtime, and shazam22 don't ever get suggested for tie really, other then airtime those maps don't get played all that much[atleast i don't play them often]. Last time I played against s2k, we agreed on Rome as tiemap. Suggesting normal maps still gives teams a variety of maps.
And for the teams who take hours to choose tiemaps, just leave if its that bad. Unless you have the time to stay then wait it out. I just find a standard tiemaplist really dumb, and it will make people find 'overplayed' maps to always be chosen. Then some decent maps will get overlooked and never played. For example rome, it turned out to be pretty fun and actually decent gameplay when we played it against s2k.
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And for the teams who take hours to choose tiemaps, just leave if its that bad. Unless you have the time to stay then wait it out. I just find a standard tiemaplist really dumb, and it will make people find 'overplayed' maps to always be chosen. Then some decent maps will get overlooked and never played. For example rome, it turned out to be pretty fun and actually decent gameplay when we played it against s2k.
Heres my tactics. Rush high, run through lines, grab flag, kill everyone.
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intercourse YEAH IM WITH RICK ON THIS ONE
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Please don't get off topic. I don't mean to sound egotistical here but I really think I had a good idea and hope someone will elaborate on it.
A mIRC script that will randomize a tie map selection. Who wants to give this a go?
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A mIRC script that will randomize a tie map selection. Who wants to give this a go?
Wasn't there a bot in #paintball at one point like that? Wait, found it.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=11592.20
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a map randomizer doesn't work for the same reason the normal tie map selection doesn't work: people will just whine at decisions and not accept them.
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lawl has a massive variety of map choice, our tie-map situations never take long because we have such a wide range of variety in terms of skill, size and gameplay. We never normally choose airtime1, sh22 or pp1 either.. unless it's a strange clan who will only play them... :/
Yeah, like thesands. Dude, you are the biggest meddling asskisser this game has ever seen. You are annoying little kid.
But not every clan in dp is on IRC.
They should.
woops, got a little off topic here.
Official maplist = bad. Game has probably hundreds of maps, would be a waste to make some official maplist...
Official tiemaplist = good. Well, it wouldnt force 2 clans to match on a tiemap that is on that list... it offers a way to escape the situation where tiemap is hard to decide... if 2 clans want to play oddjob as tiemap, then so be it, but i would not, so i would refer to www.dplogin.com/match paragraph X and tell that we should follow those guidelines there. Problem solved.
randomizer = yeah, i guess it wouldnt just work.
I think the official tiemaplist should have expiration date (set beforehand) and it should be reviewed, because it should only contain maps that are really playerd, guess u can say overplayed.
jits has been a nazi and changed ballspeed, jits has been a nazi and added prime grenades, why cant he be a bit friendly towards the matching community and really add something for us :/
I would suggest the future tiemaplist: propaint1, shazam22, airtime, pbcup_pforest, pbcup_renoir, carpathian, castle1.
They are all maps that everybody knows, they play really well and every clan can remove 3 maps out of that list, so really shouldnt be a problem to 'know' these maps good enough.
if you make your own suggestion, pls remember that the maplsit should contain odd number of mapos, then both teams can eliminate the same number of maps.
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So, theyre not then official done.
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Yeah, like thesands. Dude, you are the biggest meddling asskisser this game has ever seen. You are annoying little kid.They should.
woops, got a little off topic here.
Official maplist = bad. Game has probably hundreds of maps, would be a waste to make some official maplist...
Official tiemaplist = good. Well, it wouldnt force 2 clans to match on a tiemap that is on that list... it offers a way to escape the situation where tiemap is hard to decide... if 2 clans want to play oddjob as tiemap, then so be it, but i would not, so i would refer to www.dplogin.com/match paragraph X and tell that we should follow those guidelines there. Problem solved.
randomizer = yeah, i guess it wouldnt just work.
I think the official tiemaplist should have expiration date (set beforehand) and it should be reviewed, because it should only contain maps that are really playerd, guess u can say overplayed.
jits has been a nazi and changed ballspeed, jits has been a nazi and added prime grenades, why cant he be a bit friendly towards the matching community and really add something for us :/
I would suggest the future tiemaplist: propaint1, shazam22, airtime, pbcup_pforest, pbcup_renoir, carpathian, castle1.
They are all maps that everybody knows, they play really well and every clan can remove 3 maps out of that list, so really shouldnt be a problem to 'know' these maps good enough.
if you make your own suggestion, pls remember that the maplsit should contain odd number of mapos, then both teams can eliminate the same number of maps.
Who gets to eliminate a map first?
The team that played the first map?
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Who gets to eliminate a map first?
The team that played the first map?
Wouldn't be fair
But yet maybe this is an idea ( i know its stupid but yeah )
the first who gets 20 points on the 2nd map may choice 3rd ( :D)
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It doesn't matter who gets to select a map to remove first, you are all removing 3 maps anyway. Its another lengthy process as well.
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It doesn't matter who gets to select a map to remove first, you are all removing 3 maps anyway. Its another lengthy process as well.
The thing is, who ever gets to take out the last map also gets to pick between the last two maps. I guess it isn't a problem seeing as neither eliminated those 2 I guess :(
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What if you're in a 2v2 and you get castle1 or renoir. OR what if your in a 5v5 and get airtime. You want to make it harder and have 2v2 ties: ____________ 3v3 ties___________ etc....
it's so pointless. A few teams give difficulty in tiemaps but not enough to do this. It would just cause more issues. Some people are to childish to pick tiemaps, but I only find a very few amount of teams hard to choose tie with. But it used to be wayy worse then it is now. I do kinda find it funny that Brewsky is bringing this topic up. I have no problem with s2k's tie suggestions because I like most of the ones they suggest, but alot of people wont. Zpar11_beta, Rome, Icepond, Castle1?? i think?, and Renoir sometimes?. Which obviously Ij wont pick any because clown would get capped on. But when they see you suggestion maps your team is good at, they'll suggest ones they're good at. Then the 'common' maps will get ignored. But I don't know what you suggest against other teams, so that could be completely wrong.
Blaa: If you're on a tiemap, where one team is noticeable better and plays together alot better but somehow their on tiemap where castle1 or renoir pop up.... it's to easy for the better team. Rather then them agreeing on a smaller map that the 'lesser' team has a chance on.
But even the randomizer or deleting thing causes issues. In QEHScup they have elimination process for maps, teams will still cry. Reaver spent over an hour after the tournament was over complaining about how badly it was run because we played the same map in the finals twice, due to both teams deleting the same maps. But reaver is different.
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Good point about the 2v2/5v5...
Well, but a general matching etiquette on formal website would help a bit, I think.
And about the qehscup, I think that the system we used is the best, reaver is just a result of five generations of inbreeding.
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http://www.randomizer.org/
Just assign maps to numbers. That's it.
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How 'bout AGREE to a tie map BEFORE the match even start. didn't we try this once, Henrod?
it went much quicker...
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What if you're in a 2v2 and you get castle1 or renoir. OR what if your in a 5v5 and get airtime. You want to make it harder and have 2v2 ties: ____________ 3v3 ties___________ etc....
DEAL WITH IT BRO ITS CALLED RANDOMIZATION. It would at LEAST make things more interesting. I would rather roll the dice for a tie map that the other team is better at than sit around 20 minutes aruguing but clearly this topic has proven you people care more about winning than just PLAYING the game.
If it bothers you that much, why not make 3 seperate randomizers for 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4+. I personally think it's overkill, but hey, you guys clearly need your hineys powdered and wiped, so maybe we can accomodate all of your moronic suggestions.
WELCOME TO BREW RAGE 2010.
The only people who contributed to this forum were Cam and Edgecrusher. You people are idiots. I make a SIMPLE suggestion that solves the problem but you want to make map lists that expire? I don't post on here unless its something worth saying, unfortunately too many of you do the opposite just to see yourself on the forums. This isn't twitter, no one gives a excrement about your idiotic thought of the day. Now I remember why I barely use this forum.
This game has officially run it's course for me. Have fun with it if you still can. I'd love to tell you all what other games I'm playing, but I don't want a trail of douchebaggery dragging behind me to ruin my fun.
Hope you all get herpes.
Love,
-Brewsky
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Same thing, Ij gets to the tie map, they only suggest box maps. We suggest a lot. They finally suggest oth, we go to it, they refuse to play their tie map. We start suggesting again. They say crimethink, we go to crimethink, they refuse to play their suggestion. Nice ff Ij, learn something other than box maps, and finding other clans to play other than us.
Who's up for TF2?