Digital Paint Discussion Board
Fairness Enforcement => Cheater Reports and Bans => Topic started by: S8NSSON on April 17, 2006, 12:41:16 PM
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Here ya go...
Yep it's hosted on my slow ass work server.
It's around 66 megs.
http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/zoog.zip
My thoughts are at the end of the video.
Not my best video production work, but fast and to the point.
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Can you please upload it to somewhere else? My download is going like 6kb speed.
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it'll get hosted elsewhere soon
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im at 70%. when its dl'd i will host it for him :D
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yay.
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Wow, this is nice and fast. Smokey finish downloading it quickly and host it.
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Smokey ive been waiting :p
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Crap. Mine got to 68% and then had an error. I tried to resume, but it started over instead.
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sigh. same for me
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Word on the street is that the file is corrupt and you cant even download it.
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:O hax!
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Ive downloaded it twice now, at the end of each download winRAR wouldnt let me extract it.
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It may have stopped short, like it did with me.
S8N: You should look into getting that server connection updated. I hear they have 56k modems out now.
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gah....ty to jits for uploading with the ftp
www.arena-zone.com/zoog.zip (http://www.arena-zone.com/zoog.zip)
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The only suspicious thing I saw in the video is one of the more easily explainable events in the demo (around 2:10 in s8n's video)...er33t guy is going down the stairs into the tunnel, its 2v1 in favor of xB. Meaning the 2 dead xB players were clearly watching the last er33t player alive.
They know zoogooz is in the tunnel, they know the er33t player is coming towards him...it doesnt take much recon at all to say "COMING TO STAIRS"
Zoogooz had it lined up to shoot at the bottom of the stairs and just waited for him to go down. I think id chalk this up to recon...as there were 2 xb Players dead and only 1 er33t member to chasecam.
As for when zoogooz was under the bridge and killed the last man who was on the flag, I mean come on. Look at how many xB players are alive, look how many er33t players (or should I say player) are alive.
It was 4v1 in favor of xB. Even some of the newest clans know that in a 4v1 situation, especially in a map where you can enter the base from straight on, to the left, or right, of the flag, that last guy will be on the flag. Even though all 4 xB members were alive and no one was chase camming him, other xB members were in the base and all they had to say over their voice comm is that he is on the flag.
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I think every different clip is suspect.
It apears, in the first clip, that zoogooz reacts to very quick out-of-his-site activities. In the last clip (i think) it apears zoogoo reacts and commits to his left as he goes over the tower thingy when everything from his point of view shows the enemy went right last he could have seen.
But, I think they all can be explained through any combination of recon, coincedence, or wallhack.
That's why I said I thought the video was inconclusive, because it is.
So I would have to give zoogooz the benifit of the doubt.
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First clip: The first time I watched this, I only noticed the 1 enemy and didn't think much of it. When I watched it with a wallhack, a second player was clearly visible, and zoogooz reacted to that player, so I though "Whoa, you couldn't even see him before. That's pretty sketchy." I went back and watched it without a wallhack again, though, and noticed that the second player does actually come into view, and it isn't until that player comes into view that he reacts.
Bridge: I thought this was sketchy, even without a wallhack, but once it was put into video form and easier to analyze, I realized he wasn't really looking through the bridge, but rather positioning himself so that he could clearly see on either side of the bridge. He knew where the enemy was, because he could clearly see him before he went under the bridge. If the enemy moved in either direction, he would likely pop into view from the side of the bridge, since he didn't, zoogooz knew right where he was.
Stairs: I don't really see anything suspect about this one. The guy ran down the stairs and zoogooz shot him when he reached the bottom. It might have been questionable if he was shot before that, but I think there was plenty of reaction time available.
Last (I think?) clip: zoogooz fires at the opponent, then enters the bunker, after which, he turns toward the entrance of the bunker, when with a wallhack enabled, you can clearly see that the other player is still on the other side. After leaving the bunker, he sees the player go right and he goes left, I assume to try to intercept him, yet he still takes one quick look back to make sure his enemy didn't decide to change directions and try to shoot him in the back (the wallhack clearly shows that was not the case, so why look back?). This slowed him down a little, and when he reached the middle, he seems to have thought the enemy already crossed over to the other base and "chases after" him, even though he's still on that right path.
Good job on the video, btw, S8N. I think you made it as fair as possible.
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The video doesn't even include the most obvious clip, where he isn't spraying in the middle while two of our guys are charging him. No one has really refuted my point about that in the other thread...
If anyone is interested in watching this part of the demo, the demo can be found here
http://dt.houstonareacomputers.com/zoogoozhax2.dm2
Also due to the fact that fraps is a fairly weak capturing device and the low FPS s8n has to use as to make the video small, the scene where zoogooz shoots at the wall where our guy is directly behind it which is about 1:45 on s8n's video is much more clearly seen in the demo.
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I've downloaded that video twice, and it hasn't worked either time.
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don't use the link i posted
in this thread there are two other links.
if it doesn't work then you might not have the right codec
it's DivX i think?
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I vote NO. He was NOT cheating.
I watched the entire vid a few times. I dont see him cheating. With footsteps and jump sounds you can predict where a player is headed. There is no clear proof of him lining the easy shots the wallhack would have allowed him.
In the last clip, when he runs towards other base, note the time left. it seems like a reasonable play to grab before time runs out.
I just dont see a wallhack here except for whoeever made the vid =P
taco, I think iraq has WMDs. lets make a fuss about it and invade before we know. Then when we're wrong we'll say we were just watching out for the community.
zoogooz, good playeing
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Nice try shreds. I know I'm not wrong. Not a very good analogy either.
Excellent job even addressing the worries i brought up.
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don't use the link i posted
in this thread there are two other links.
if it doesn't work then you might not have the right codec
it's DivX i think?
I've seen the demo, just not the video.
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yep we KNOW the creator of that video has wallhax...BAN HIM NOW!!!
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I feel a banzor coming on. :o :o :o :o :o :o
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taco, I think iraq has WMDs. lets make a fuss about it and invade before we know. Then when we're wrong we'll say we were just watching out for the community.
He's a freedom fighter Shreds. A freedom fighter.
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your blue paintballs are pretty bright s8n... they don't look like that when i shoot the walls in hellsurv or when someone's shooting at me
i refer to 0:55 - 1:10 in the video
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I think thats caused by the wallhack hes using, Herron.
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That's why I pointed to clips where he wasn't using the wallhack, or had it 'turned off'. Seems to me that if it was turned off there wouldn't be any difference.
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No the skins and splat marks are modified so you can see the balls and hits easier fro watching sprays and such.
All vids are done on my work pc which is behind a firewall and is impossible to play online.
My work pc is the only place the hack and skins exist.
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mmmkay
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mmmkay what boy?
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Are you a cheater and gone the way of Crash and Ruddy and accidentally exposed yourself?
I, personally, cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that you cheat. But I am also the first to admit that I couldn't recognize a cheater if he was shooting brightened paint right at me.
I can say that some of your actions look very suspicious.
You may the call.
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(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/SillyAsh337/ohsnap.gif)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/123alexbrilliant/ohsnap.gif)
(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4937/ohshnap9fj.gif)
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Really funny man!
You think of that all by your little self.
Of course not. You are obviously a moron that cannot think for yourself.
Why don't you pull gibbs rooster out of your mouth and tell me how ya really feel.
So I make a vid to investigate a possible cheater and I get attacked.
Gibb you've benn attacking me for days about it.
So go ahead...
Stop being little sissies and just come right out and say what you feel.
All of you...go ahead. Little sissie comments is all you can manage with your projects level intelligence, I see.
Herman said his peace (unless she has more to say) so go ahead Gibb, anyone else...c'mon.
"oh snap"...lol...more like "what a moron you guys are"
Go ahead Jitspoe...ban away if you think I hack...waiting...*taps fingers on desk*
You freaking idiot...are you just too stupid to see that I would probably play a little better than I do if I hacked?
You got screenshots of the slaughter you suffered at the hand of eR33t on Darkages don't you?
Yeah...look at my score idiot...pull your head out of your ass and look at my score.
Just cause you can't live with the fact that these guys I play with rape you like you're a helpless cripple doesn't mean you have to go poking your boney finger in my direction, son. If you can't handle being second rate give up the game.
you people give me laughter
I know...come on over and examine my PC personally.
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It is true that S8N makes the videos from his work office. Surprisingly enough, thats the only place he has time to do it. I wish he was able to connect to dp servers from there... we'd be able to participate in alot more matches when we need a third. As for the paint, it seems to me that it does make it easier to see in the video. Its hard enough to see any entities in the video with such low FPS and fraps' weak recording ability.
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LOL lookat the logs in #paintball
Thursday at work when I was working on the vid at around 5pm I state in #painball that I have to leave for a 3 day weekend and will have to wait till monday to resume work on the vid.
Monday I finish the vid from work and post in the forums.
Monday night when I ge thome the file is found to be corrupt.
I VPN into work and delete the zip and put up the AVI instead.
It's all on the forums. Well...unless I knew this issue would come up and planned for it all this time.
Go back to the Clipz video and you'll see the same working hour timings for the release.
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I like how this comes back to you beating us. Do you think I care at all about that? News flash: a lot of people beat us, some of them 4-0. This has nothing to do with eR33t at all, and you know it.
I merely pointed out the fact that you have a non-detectable alteration to the game (against the DP terms of use, I believe -- regardless of the reason for doing it.), and raised the possibility that you use it on your home computer. I think that's a valid issue to comment on seeing as how you admit to having done it, and there's proof of it. Whether you did it at work or not is immaterial, since what I'm insinuating is that you also have it on your home computer. Is that clear enough? By the way, I like your comment about coming over and checking your computer personally... that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard, even though I realize it was supposed to be sarcastically witty.
I sure hope Build 17 has checks for skins and textures.
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First thing that strikes me as odd is the whole firewall business. Im not going to accuse anyone of hacking, take sides, or pass any judgement, just a few pieces of the puzzle are missing for me. Some of the answers may have been posted in other threads, or even in this one, but im to lazy to look.
If your work pc is behind a firewall then that means you cant have recorded the demo at work, i dont know if someone else in er33t recorded it, or if you went to the effort of sending it yourself or what.
The more pressing concern is the fact that because youre behind a firewall you cant play on pub servers, so why do you need to brighten your pballs to see spray and splats if youve got no one to play with?
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Agreed Herron...
And good questions Reed.
As for Herrons part....welp....guilty as charged. I have altered skins at work. Do I have them at home? Guess the only way to know is to be here or have checking for it. I actually did have them at home at one time. And used them publicly. When I joined eR33t I informed them I had them and they suggested I get rid of them. This isn't a secret, of course, because i've stated this fact in #paintball previously. So no real revelation there. And, yes, there will be checking for skin and model modifications soon. Don't know about in b17 or not, but soon.
I guarantee more people have modified skins than don't in this community right now (won't say why I think that, but MSPaint is everywhere). Getting protection for that is going to be a funny time. I'm willing to bet you will see people flat quit, or all of a sudden develope a great fluctuation in thier play while adjusting back to defaults.
And for Reed:
I have recorded none of the demos i've vidcapped into movies. I am behind a firewall. I actually control this firewall. But I am also monitored by my superiors. So all ports opened and content on my personal space is scrutinized and approved. Open game ports are not allowed though. If they were eR33t would be able to play daytime matches easier (like against the German teams).
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If you can't handle being second rate give up the game.
I'm not sure if you realized this after you clicked "post" but this entire thing didn't start with us not being able to handle being second rate. as you put it. The problem occured when the "top rate" team lost fair and square. APPARENTLY that's not supposed to happen, ever. If it does, my lord I guess the winners cheated.
I've never denied that er33t has skill. They have amazing dp skill and teamwork but unfortunately MOST of their players have the maturity of a 12 year old. THAT'S where the issue is, otherwise none of this would have ever happened.
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S8N, if there has been anyone I have come close to attacking during this entire mess, it has been Pierce, never you. I believe I have made only 2 comments to you that voiced my displeasure with this entire, what I have been calling, "Smear Campaign."
One was when you asked if I would record my own version of the song you used in the demo. I responded w/, "I wont contribute to your smear campaign, but I would record The Beatles song "Cry Baby Cry."
This was said mainly a joke as I had no intention to record either, just make a smart-assed comment.
Secondly, I had voiced my opinion a few times in regards to how making this video could easily lead to biased results
** A member of the accusing clan is the person behind the production.
**They can select whatever sections of the demo they want to show.
**Then they can end the video by making whatever comments they want
I believe these are all valid points, you can accomplish a lot through crafty video editing and only taking 2 minutes from a 15+ minute demo.
However, all of these comments were said prior to the video being released. After I watched the video, I felt you were fair with its presentation. I thought you showed a number of scenes that were easily explainable as to how zoogooz was not wallhacking, and because of that, I could really care less about it.
As for the "Oh Snap" pictures, I felt that it was very ironic we have 'cheating' show up in a video trying to oust a cheater. What if CRASH made a post similar to S8N's after his 'highlight' film was released that depicted altered skins? He did it 'just to make the video easier to watch' or 'it was only for the video, i don't use them anymore.' I'm pretty sure everyone would have reacted the same way by wanting him burned at the stake.
S8N I have no problem with you, never have. I enjoyed what you had to say when you were in Rust, and I am sure many people enjoy your contributions to the DP Community. However, all I believe Herron was trying to say, and he can correct me if i'm wrong, but if we're really banning people for a month for altered skins, there should not be a double standard or a free pass for anybody. No matter who you are.
(On a side note: I found your comment about if we really thought you cheat, check your scores for when er33t beat us on Darkages. I don't have any screens, but im assuming you weren't close to being the kills leader on your team. Thats pretty funny since if you look at zoogooz scores at the end of the demo er33t has been saying demonstrated wallhacking, he indeed has the LOWEST score of all of his teammates.)
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For me, I think it all comes down to this:
The ZoogoZ video is inconclusive, jitspoe took the words out of my mouth for explaining all of Zoo's actions, so I won't reiterate the reasons I feel the video is not solid proof that he is wallhacking.
S8NSSON's use of edited paintballs is explained away by him using them at work, and he has shown that he made the video while at work as opposed to from home, and therefore there is no proof he uses it at home, so like the ZoogooZ situation itself, it is inconclusive.
Honestly I think it's all just water under the bridge at this point, so I propose we drop both issues and keep making our demos and videos and base our future (hack)usations on more definitive facts. More cheat protection for both wallhacks and game editing are needed, but I do agree that in the meantime diligence of the community is the best course of action, as long as it can remain civil. Unfortunately this whole thing didn't quite maintain that throughout the whole process, but there were successes on both sides at bringing the topic back on track, and I give thumbs up to everyone on that.
So until the next demo...
Respectfully yours,
Herron
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Agreed and amen.
I really tried to tell everyone that regardless of my position (being in the accusing clan) I would make a fair video and would in no way attempt to manipulate any parts of it in favor either way. I hope I did this. My interest is in catching cheaters, not in hanging potentially innocent people. If there is a shadow of a doubt, however large or small, you must side with the defendant. And that's what has happened in this case (or at least I think it has...i don't guess he's banned or anything, as he shouldn't be).
Oh, and I think I told you this already Gibb, but my suggestion to do that song was purely because I thought it would fit your voice (even doing multitrack backups yourself) having heard your material, that's all.
Anybody demo a potential cheater? Send it my way.
Please don't even comment in the game that you are doing so. Just go observer and quietly record the suspect in thier first person view.
Peace
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I guarantee more people have modified skins than don't in this community right now
is this true? ???
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<soapbox>
I have NEVER modified or used modified ANYTHING in this mod.
(unless you count the female skins used years ago....)
</soapbox>
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I doubt that many people are using modified skins. A few, maybe, but not the majority.
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Man you guys are hilarious. You 'authorities on the subject.' None of you have addressed the main issue i brought up. Jitspoe started to in another post, but didn't finish. I'm not willing to just drop the issue when a handful of people I'm supposed to respect, but don't anymore, start advancing bogus arguments for the contrary.
"The problem occured when the "top rate" team lost fair and square." Actually we didn't lose fair and square. One of your members was wallhacking. However, we still accepted the loss because we still should have won, even if all four of you were wallhacking.
Maybe i'll just start believing Zoogooz is omniscient and knows where we are at all times instead of thinking he wallhacks.
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The video doesn't even include the most obvious clip, where he isn't spraying in the middle while two of our guys are charging him. No one has really refuted my point about that in the other thread...
Assuming this is the thing you want everyone to talk about, give us a timeframe when this happens. Otherwise you can't expect everyone to watch a 15 minute demo and look for a point where zoogooz is in the middle and 2 guys are rushing him. It's too vague.
Once we know where to focus our attention, someone might address your point, but keep in mind this is not the 'address DT's points or you will forfeit all validity in your statements' thread. This is a thread about hacking, and I believe all posts that address the subject of hacking are fair game.
You 'authorities on the subject.' None of you have addressed the main issue i brought up. Jitspoe started to in another post, but didn't finish. I'm not willing to just drop the issue when a handful of people I'm supposed to respect, but don't anymore, start advancing bogus arguments for the contrary.
If that was in reference to either Herron or I, we are clearly not 'authorities on the subject' of hacking, nor have we claimed to be. Just like everyone else in this thread, we are just giving opinions of what we see. The only person that has claimed to be an authority on hacking is yourself Pierce, which may be valid because you have said you have the most experience in looking into past cheaters.
As for the issue of respect, you don't have to respect us, nor do we expect to be respected by everyone. Doing so would be extremely absurd. However, I don't see why you would suddenly lose respect for people who simply disagrees with how you handle a subject. In life, not everyone will agree with you, nor will people always think along the same lines as you, that doesn't mean they don't respect you.
If the bogus arguments comment was also directed to us in regards to S8N using edited paint splats, please. They are apart of the zoogooz video, we noticed they were edited, and we brought that forward inside the zoogooz video thread. No they don't pertain to zoogooz specfically, but it was something that was noticed, and we felt it would be appropriate to discuss. It was, all is now fine.
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Bogus arguments refers to most of what people have said about zoogooz not wallhacking. Either way, it may be the case that we don't have enough evidence to prove that zoogooz wallhacks simply because a person wasn't demoing him the entire time. However, none of you have a good enough argument to prove the contrary. Which means we'll have to leave it as an enigma, and hope he doesn't do it in the future.
The respect issue has to do with how various people handled the situation. Jitspoe seems to me the only person that opposed me that handled it correctly. I posted a lengthy rigorous argument.. the main thesis of which most people ignored. Jitspoe posted his take on the demo, although, without responding to some of my further worries i brought up. Nowhere did he try and demean me or my counterparts as you, herron, shreds, and all of xb did instead of just posting a new argument, or refuting my points. If you had done the latter than i'd still respect you.
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I don't think one short segment of play would be sufficient to convict anybody. I don't recall from the demo very well what happened, but I think your argument basically boiled down to, "He wasn't spraying when I think he should have been." Not to attack you, but just because you think the game should be played a certain way doesn't necessarily mean everybody will play it that way. Also, just because a certain action is more logical in a given scenario doesn't mean the person will take it. We're human, after all.
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None of this arugment would even be happening if you didnt bring it out public RIGHT after the match. Had you waited, like you did with clipz, until s8n had finished the video, these flame fests wouldnt be so bad as they have gotten.
As for this comment:
"The problem occured when the "top rate" team lost fair and square." Actually we didn't lose fair and square. One of your members was wallhacking. However, we still accepted the loss because we still should have won, even if all four of you were wallhacking.
The video is not conclusive, so there is no way to say if he was hacking or not, it may have not been fair and square if he had, but its alot closer to fair and square than you think. You should have beaten us regardless(like you said) if zoogooz was hacking or not, you had some communications lapses. It happens, and when that does happen good teams take advantage of the situation like we did.
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Taco, whats points are you making here? I watched the video of accusing moments and didnt see anything that confirmed cheating. Was I supposed to say what jit said a few posts above mine?
As for demeaning you, well... If you would stop being a brat we wouldnt have to treat you like a child. My interest in the zoogooz thing was heightened when you called us.. what was it? pretty pathetic and that we played without honor. All this because you guys lost 1 round in pbcup when we played defensive. Maybe you should watch the demos again too because we didnt just camp the entire time as you think, but thats another story.
My only attack on you in relation to this topic was laughing and a analogy of WMDs, which may not have been good but other people got the joke.
I stated my opinion on this subject, that there is no proof zoogooz cheated.
I'll leave the s8n's texture edits dead as it should be.
I wish you would either stop calling zoogooz a cheater and dragging his name through the mud (doing worse to yours in the process)[though.. what do names matter in this game anyways. -->GAME<--]. If you dont stop, get fraps and make a demo that does prove him guilty beyond a doubt. zoogooz has more evidence in his favor then a black glove thats too small.
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Shreds: I'm not talking about the video. The main thesis of my argument doesnt concern the video becuase s8n didn't capture that part. It concerns the demo. To read my argument you'd have to read the other thread. To read jitspoe's response you'd have to read the other thread. To read my further replies you'd have to read the other thread.
Theres a difference between playing defensive and camping behind objects, waiting for people to run by, then shooting them in the back. Thats just cheap, and in mind dishonorable. Almost as dishonorable as zoogooz wallhacking. I wasn't totally surprised though, you did recruit hobo. Zoogooz doesn't have more evidence in his favor, he just has more old school, non-eR33t players trying to protect him.
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If DT fought in the revolutionary war, he most definitely would be on the British side. As I said in my previous post, just because you think the game should be played a certain way doesn't mean everybody plays it that way. There's more to the game than just raw skill. You have a lot of skill, and thus favor strategies/maps that favor skill. Just because people use strategy to avoid direct confrontation (which favors the more skilled player) does not make their tactics cheap. Personally I think if you rush blindly into a base, then you deserve to be shot in the back. This, however, is a topic for a different discussion.
On topic, if you really wish to convince us, then you should put together your own video. The burden of proof is on you. I feel I've wasted far too much time on this already and don't want to spend more time pouring over some demo when my time could be better spent elsewhere.
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Why would i do that? No matter what i do now, especially with the given demo, you aren't going to globally ban him and I know it.
It does make them cheap. Although it's fair, the camping team has a big advantage. Skilled players never rush blindly into a base in a serious match. They're very cautious. However, cautious players don't jump around every corner spraying behind them to see if people are being cheap. Theres also a difference between one person sitting behind something waiting for you to run by and three people doing it. At least MeMi faced us when they camped all 4 players against our 3 (basically 2).
The reason the WMD analogy doesn't work is because half of it is false. Jitspoe's might work, except that I win and the British lost.
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Theres a difference between playing defensive and camping behind objects, waiting for people to run by, then shooting them in the back. Thats just cheap, and in mind dishonorable.
So did you lose that map..the one where they were being "cheap" and "dishonorable" <-- i'm sorry i didn't notice we needed to honor our ancestor's. my bad.
My guess is that you lost that map, which explains the entire part where you complained..again.
I forget which er33t member posted something in this thread about xb refusing to match you guys from now on. We'll let me explain something to you,
1. I've played this game for far too long to let immaturity ruin my fun.
2. IF you think i'm afraid of chalking up a loss, think again. Tell you what, challenge my team to a match. I'll accept and then we won't show but instead we'll be playing a different team, a team who WON'T cause a fiasco after every kill. and when i'm done i'll add at least 1 loss for not showing up to yours.
So you see, it's got nothing to do with record or "honor" or that crap. It's all about being able to enjoy a game for free without the constant complaining.
Therefore i've instructed my clan to ignore any match challenges coming from anyone within team er33t unless we're forced to (pbcup).
One last thing, somewhere in this thread I read something where Digi listed off clans that were refusing to match er33t. Have you thought about possible reason's why that might be? Let me name a few:
1 - All those clans are afraid to lose - possible but very unlikely
2 - All those clans are afraid to be caught hacking - possibility but again, very unlikely
3 - All those clans are just fed up with the lack of maturity within er33t - VERY good possibility.
I'll let you make the call.
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I'm going to go with choice 1 for xb and the rest of the clans.
SECURED
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DT,
I had no desire to get involved with this thread. I did however enjoy following the discussion. But, since you decided to use me as "Rust's backshooter" I've decided to give my 2 cents worth.
What Jitspoe is saying about how people play the game and how your way may not be everyone's way is exactly what I've told you in the past. If you think it's pathetic or cheap then I won't bother arguing with you. but I will give you my opinion about it. Camping, backshooting, whatever also takes skill in my opinion. Since I was asked to join Rust I've tried to adjust to playing with a team. I'll be the first to admit it's way different than the pubs. I try to follow directions given to me by the members. I've been asked to play more than one style of defense and more than just one style of offense. So, since you have no idea how I actually play everytime, you shouldn't be so biased to my style of play. I actually rush plenty, it just depends on the map and who's playing, just like it should be for everyone. I wasn't even playing that round which you lost and I'm surprised that you think my infuence is so great. I truly believe camping/backshooting will be a part of this game untill the end, whether you approve or not.
Just so you know, I thought PBCup was helping your attitude to the general pball scene.
As far as the demo:
Spraying all the time simply gives away your position. In the instance you're talking about, Zoo seemed to be waiting to see which way someone would be approaching his position. Spraying would give his position and location away.
Why do you use a wallhack during your matches? You keep saying "He knows exactly where you're at" "He's looking right at you"
Actually I don't think you use a wallhack during a match, but comments like that would encourage me to think so.
Lastly I don't care... you should care less... try to have some fun.
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I'm going to go with choice 1 for xb and the rest of the clans.
So you belive that acting immature ruins fun? Man I thought you were e3rrt. Sorry. :)
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What are you talking about? That was choice 3 idiot.
"Hobo: Camping, backshooting, whatever also takes skill in my opinion." Thank you, that made my day.
If you think I'm wallhacking, watch the demo and see if I am. In fact, I'll send you any demo out of my demos folder you want.
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LOL Idiot? What is Merl's 'first' point about maturity on this thread?
I then thought you agreed with this point as its more on topic then his second first point (which you agreed with) Being scared about matching. Dude its an FPS comon.
You were not CLEAR enough were you?. Which number '1' point you agreed with. How am I supposed to know what you are posting if you dont specify which talking point you were reffering to.
Comon DT your smarter and nicer than this.
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"Being scared about matching. Dude its an FPS comon." <--- You'd be very surprised.
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Well i'm glad you at least chose something out of the list instead of saying something along the lines like "0MfgORZ! i choose 21324" which is what i expected.
In any case congrats for that. But now that you've chosen number 1 (clans being afraid to lose), sarcastic or not about your answer, it leads me to repeat to you what i wrote about not caring.
2. IF you think i'm afraid of chalking up a loss, think again. Tell you what, challenge my team to a match. I'll accept and then we won't show but instead we'll be playing a different team, a team who WON'T cause a fiasco after every kill. and when i'm done i'll add at least 1 loss for not showing up to yours.
In other words, I'll add a lose for no apparent reason (other than not showing up) but yet i must be afraid to lose, or so Pierce the "hacker catcher" believes.
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In responce to DT.
NO I am at the paying persons responce. Are you one?
1.Anyone can walk into a server and start talking excrement to every clan and any person. It takes a special excretory opening to suck the fun out of this game.
2.Despite how much I payed with the intention for people to act civil. With out worrying about abuse. There is always people that dont give a excrement? Which are you?
kids drinking and posting dont mix.
edited. for your viewing pleasure.
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So you see, it's got nothing to do with record or "honor" or that crap. It's all about being able to enjoy a game for free without the constant complaining.
3 - All those clans are just fed up with the lack of maturity within er33t - VERY good possibility.
;)
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Wow after reading all of this, I'm stunned. All accusations and results are inconclusive. DT, I know you feel strongly about the wallhack, but you cannot say zoogooz hacked if we dont have 100% proof. Why are there so many useless arguments in this thread?
Let me make an official statement on behalf of Crossbones, which is we believe in 100% fair play. If we were to discover anyone using cheats, double clanning, etc. on our team, they are done for.
If you want to know how to RIGHTFULLY accuse someone of hmmm lets say, double clanning, refer to the 04/22/06 when xb matched team_i and we gathered conclusive evidence of Digi double clanning under a different alias, and only until we KNEW FOR SURE did we take action. Gibb, that Oh snap thing was hilarious.
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Shakes Head. None of my business and not all that suprising.
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"Shakes Head. None of my business and not all that suprising." <-- If it's none of your business, why post?
"All accusations and results are inconclusive" Wrong. I find it extremely conclusive as do a handful of people.
"but you cannot say zoogooz hacked if we dont have 100% proof" I think we do have 100% proof as do a handful of people.
"Why are there so many useless arguments in this thread?" <-- Agreed.
I don't know if digi was double clanning, and i haven't seen your conclusive evidence. However, it wouldn't surprise me given that xb has secured their 1-20 (approxiamtely) record against us. Is digi justifed in double clanning for one match just so he can play xb? I'd say yes, but I'm an interested biased party. Furthermore, double clanning isn't something I'm too worried about outside of PBCup, wallhacking is much more important.
By the way, I know for sure zoogooz was wallhacking, there is no doubt in my mind.
P.S. I hear it was a pretty harsh loss.
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<insert more drama here>
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However, it wouldn't surprise me given that xb has secured their 1-20 (approxiamtely) record against us
Woooow all i can do is laugh...considering xb has played er33t a total of 5 times. I have the ss's to prove all but two or three of our matches that happened in the early stages. That's a pretty wild estimate hacker catcher. You're sounding more like bob and digi.
That's alright though, whatever helps you sleep at night darling.
Oh and by the way, the handful of people you speak of, can you name a few for us? People OTHER than er33t members?
I'm also curious, even though double clanning isn't exactly considered cheating, it's been frowned upon in DP ever since QW but yet you sit there and say that it's justified. I can't really say i'm surprised with your answer seeing as it's a fellow clan member who did it.
Don't blame us for the declining number of matches that er33t has been able to participate in ( as digi put it ), because you fellas did this to yourselves with the lack of respect and above all else, lack of maturity in game. Refer to previous posts of mine within this thread.
Oh, can't forget...lack of "honor" ::) if honor even has anything to do with DP. <-- that's for you Pierce the Warrior.
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As for the proof about digi
[18:57] * d|bbl (~fsdfdsf@CPE0050bfa320c8-CM00e06f15560a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:45] <Brewsky> <XtremeBain> [22:35] * Dns resolved 69.196.53.197 to CPE0050bfa320c8-CM00e06f15560a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
[22:45] <Brewsky> <XtremeBain> 0 0 44 {i}pod 10 69.196.53.197:61905 37228
*note that the clan tag was changed because [.i] is the command to italicize
There is the definitive proof of the ip matching.
Now, skater claims that he had no knowledge of digi playing.
[22:51] <MeRL> did u know it was digi?
[22:51] <SkateR> nah
Yet.... 1 min previous....
[22:50] <SkateR> Jitspoe had no problem with it
[22:50] <SkateR> its ok.
That shows that he knew about it even though he lied
I asked jitspoe if he told digi he could double clan..
[02:20] <oddjob> did you tell digi that he could double clan?
[02:20] <jitspoe> I think I told him I would prefer he not
[02:24] <jitspoe> [14:20:43] <jitspoe> Well, it might set a bad example, so I wouldn't encourage it, but there's not really anything I can do to stop it, either.
Now in addition this was grabbed off of the ch1ll server we were playing on.
[23:03] <XtremeBain> [OBS] ([.i]prodigy): who's ipod
[23:03] <XtremeBain> [OBS] ([.i]Spook): thats digi i believe
[23:03] <XtremeBain> [OBS] ([.i]prodigy): mm makes sense
I doubt spook was more informed than skater was.
Anyways I didnt want to drag xbain or jits into this, but I feel its needed for proof.
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Maybe MeRL doesn't understand the word approximately. Doesn't surprise me though. Even if the total record is something like 1-5, you've been reluctent to match us since day 1.
Off the top of my head i'd say skater, smokey, royalblood (it seems) other [.i] members. I'd have to ask others to find out.
People have been afraid to match eR33t since day 1 too. You can't tell me thats not the truth. I used to be one of those people. Inference to the best explanation for a declining number of matches tells me people are afraid.
I'd rather play a group of all double clanners that played in an honorable manner (i.e. not camping behind objects to shoot people in the back, or wallhacking) than a group of people not double clanning that used these cheap tactics. I'm sure most would agree with me, MeRL the dwarf.
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I'm going to lock this before it gets too out of hand. Recent posts have been getting off topic anyway.