Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: bLiNdThInG on August 20, 2010, 01:24:53 PM
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hi all, im back with a new map as beta_1 called the devils playground. its 2 teams, 2 flags. some textures are not alligned (mainly boxes) but ill do that with any other changes needed. hope you like it, blindy.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dcxpm8qahug2q0m see below.
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Post some screenshots :)
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yea sry i did try but it said that something of the same name had already been uploaded, so i renamed and tried again and then it said i had already post that post... :-\
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the map --> :)
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:s I hate that sand texture, from above it looks the same all the way through and just makes my eyes go funny :/
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I think, that r_speeds in some place is very hight --- 18 000 wpoly, 13 000 epoly .... this map is unplayable ... but i think, that it isnot bad map :-D
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You need to VIS and LIGHT your map. Please do that always before releasing it.
And don't put a box around the map if it leaks. Find and fix the leak correct!
sBi is right. This map is unplayable at the moment.
I will give more detailed feedback after you have done a full export and fixed the leak correct. Pay attention for errors, warnings and other messages while compiling.
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there is no leak?!. ok fine ive put the wrong file out. anyway im already on beta 2 which has no sand, grass instead for u boring people xD. spawn points changed so it doesnt look so much like pp3. and the funny little func_train removed as it was causing high r_speeds. i havnt done any lighting yet obviously because it takes too long to export everytime so i want to get the layout of the map right before i do any of that, thx. u may notice that on that version of that map aswell only 2/3 of the maps is used as i left the sides on, but thats fixed already. i fink most people dont like the layout either and r_speeds why are they so high? whats so wrong with map?. ty.
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1. no VIS export in first beta, it's absolutely necessary
2. the big not used parts of the map
3. the box around the map?! The not used area under your map isn't good for r_speeds and should be fixed.
4. long open area, you can see from base to base, that's a bad structure
5. maybe a few more things I don't remember at the moment
Btw. make the boxes, barrels, planks, etc. detail for a faster export time.
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Looks digital but awesome
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thanks cap0ne :). beta 2 is ready for testing with many improvements although rpseeds are still too high ::)
cant upload here so...
http://www.mediafire.com/?bux9rmcs3n9j987
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Reasons for still high r_speeds...
1. no VIS export in first beta, it's absolutely necessary
2. the big not used parts of the map
Done! Light is there, I hope full VIS too. OK now.
3. the box around the map?! The not used area under your map isn't good for r_speeds and should be fixed.
I hope you understood that, because here are very big unused parts. I will help you with three screenshots here.
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2086/tdpb21.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/tdpb21.jpg/)
This not used and useless room under your spawns is way to big. Delete them or make two smaller ones.
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7914/tdpb22.jpg) (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/tdpb22.jpg/)
This is another very very big cave under your map. Maybe you don't see it very good because it's black, but look at the pic below (same place)...
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2482/tdpb23.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/tdpb23.jpg/)
...here you can see, that this room is under the whole map. The opening to this area are in lots of places your transparent textures without a sidebrush. "Box around the map" because I thought, that you wanted to fix a leak with this bad cave. Maybe there is another reason for it, but you have to delete it for lower r_speeds.
If you will have a leak after deleting this cave, you have to fix this leak correct. I saw that one sidebrush of this map is a few units to high. Search for black lines in your map or use the leak check and you will find it. Just make this brush bigger.
4. long open area, you can see from base to base, that's a bad structure
I know it's hard to avoid now. But try to find a sulotion for VIS blockers. Maybe you're lucky and could fix small parts with hint brushes. It's often more easy to think about the structure before beginning to map. Afterwards it's way more complicated
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The grass looks much better. The map is very open and because of that there are lags on some places.
The second flag shouldn't have 5 points. 2-3 are enough.
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ok guys thanks for the comments, i'll fix all of that for beta 3. the reason why i put a box around was because there were so many leaks for some reason and i got fed up and boxed the map, but i'll get rid of any unused space. also about how you can see from base to base, i was thinking of stretching the map and making the mid alot bigger with some structure to block the line of sight...but i'll see wat i can do. ok, but how do i set the value of a flag? maybe 'value' '3' or 'points' '3'? . thx :).
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"count" ".6"
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ok ive diverted a route to the base a little by blocking the line of sight hoping to reduce r_speeds, but instead by doing this the r_speeds are now even higher. can someone explain why this is because it doesn't seem to make any sense.
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Sure, that's because of different exports types.
First screenshot is a full export (I think final compile)
Second screenshot is only qbsp (no VIS, no light)
Run a final compile for the new version.
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i ran a final compile (high quality) and got and error MAX patches. ? the first screenshot is fastvisrad.bat.
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Ah ok, BSP stops the compile after the max patches error. It ends up in a normal qbsp export. You have to fix this error first.
1. Use final compile; not final compile (high quality) or fastvisrad (no full VIS couldn't reduce r_speeds as good as possible)
2. It's important that the box is deleted before compiling, because it makes too much useless surfaces bsp has to export
3. Scale up your textures (invisible textures like a base, sky, etc. could be 100.0 to 100.0, the rock and the gras maybe 2.0 to 2.0)
Try again...
4. Just if 1, 2 and 3 isn't enough to fix it, use another chop value while exporting
Post here if nothing could help you...
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1. Use final compile; not final compile (high quality) or fastvisrad (no full VIS couldn't reduce r_speeds as good as possible)
Yea that's what I said to him in 1st beta on irc about compile.
Grass was my idea,but everyone will say same thing like me about that ground texture - it just looks better with grass...
And I was bored so I checked the .map file in BSP and it was just disaster how was map made ,but everyone is learning.
I was bad too in beginnings,now it's better ,so good luck blindy in next maps.
Bye
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ye thanks sklenda. i have got rid of all caves etc. under and around the map so that should help and i'll run the final compile when i get back later, ty chefkiller for all your help.
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yeh it worked, i ran a final compile with no errors. the r_speeds are much better now and even from looking base to base isnt too bad. im just going to make a couple of changes before beta3 release.
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BETA 3
hi all again, after some modifications and improvements beta 3 is here. r_speeds are much better now and the map should be playable. i hope you enjoy it, here are some screenies. thx :)
download - http://www.mediafire.com/?9m3cq5lzvaj5yvj
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Much better now. The cave under the map isn't fixed 100% though.
One question left before I will post my more detailed feedback. Is the side with the red circles or the side with the green circles the correct one? It's different in many places.
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eewww. that looks awful with those textures. but yea both sides are meant to be the same, i hadnt noticed but ill fix it for beta 4. ty.
(with the proper textures ;) )its meant to look like...
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It's not because of my texture. I have this problem with all transparent textures :'(
I will start with the mapfile. You have a sky, so I would prefer a sun lighting instead of light entities (without a source). It looks way better. Just delete all light entities and add the following default keys/values to the worldspawn.
"_sun_light" "250"
"_sun_angle" "150 -34"
"_sun_ambient" "30"
"_sun_diffuse" "60"
There are very high walls in your map. I guess you have to use another (more high) angle for the sun. You can play with the second number.
Delete "value" "3" from the two second flags to fix the message while loading the map.
The rest looks good here. So I will come the the map itself now.
The reason that the cave under your map isn't fixed 100% are many small holes in your map. Some of them will be fixed if you have fit the ends of this transparent brushes. The other ones should be fixed for the next beta. Later I will show you a few screenshots that you can see where the holes are. I can help you if you can't find and fix the last ones. But try to fix it by yourself first. Maybe it will be helpful to delete all the brushes under the map, because you could use the leak check afterwards. Btw you can avoid this holes very easy, if you don't map with the <16 unit grids. Please don't shock me again with such a disordered map :P
Also there are lots of misaligned textures (all wood textures and all barrels; set all values for the rock texture to 0 to fix misalignments here) and missing brushes. I will add screenshots to show it, too. Have a look at the following textures though. The brown ring should be the lowest one.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9270/bbrl1.jpg) (http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3327/rbrl1.jpg)
Your barrel textures are not the same. But this doesn't make a big difference, they are misaligned ;). The barrels ingame has to look like the texture did. It's just easier to align with this textures maybe.
I think you know my opinion about second flags. Hmm...but it might be ok in this map. The placement could be a good choice.
The only thing I really hate are the spawnrooms. It would be more nice when the people would spawn all over the map/base and not in parts of maps, where the spawnrooms are easy to line. Remembers me on propaint. It's very boring sometimes...
And the biggest part with screenshots now (you have to fix the things on both sides of the map). You have to work a lot on this map. Sry that i don't post the screenshots here, but I don't want to upload so many files. I wrote the comments into the screenshots if necessary.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ehbdeso08onhqbd
I'm sure that this isn't all. Fix the things I wrote about and then I will have a look at this map again.
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i thought about using sun lighting but with such high walls etc. some areas will be left in darkness. also the reason for the spawn points the way they are is in an attempt to stop spawnkilliing which is really annoying and this way i think it does stop people always trying to spawnkill and i reli like the spawn exit so im not gonna change that. maybe i will put a spawn at the base or something. yes i know i always missallign barrels etc. but they look fine so i dont really see the problem, but ill fix just to keep you happy. :)
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Yes, the walls are very high. That's why I wrote you have to play with the angle.
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after a long break from this , beta 4 is on the way, just tidying the map up at the moment. so release soonish.
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Nice, I hope you could fix all problems and misalignments :)
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ill certainly try my best chefkiller, ino ur hard to please :)
oh and ive been playing around with the sun angle, but i cant seem to get it just right with the high walls etc. so wat angle would you suggest?
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BETA 4
So beta 4 here now, not alot has changed, mainly sun lighting. hopefully I would like to do 1 more beta before a finished map, as the map still has some lag issues and i'd like some suggestions on how I should try to deal with this. anyway here's b4, hope you like it, thx chefkiller and others for all the help to get this far :)
http://www.mediafire.com/?r87v015t374wutd
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some screenies :)
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I'm not sure if the sky is allowed to use. Never seen it before.
In august I spent a lot of time for giving you a very detailed feedback, but you didn't work much on it. I won't waste my time again with a detailed feedback. You can send me the map if you want.
One of the reasons why this map has some lag issues...
The reason that the cave under your map isn't fixed 100% are many small holes in your map. Some of them will be fixed if you have fit the ends of this transparent brushes. The other ones should be fixed for the next beta. Later I will show you a few screenshots that you can see where the holes are. I can help you if you can't find and fix the last ones. But try to fix it by yourself first. Maybe it will be helpful to delete all the brushes under the map, because you could use the leak check afterwards. Btw you can avoid this holes very easy, if you don't map with the <16 unit grids. Please don't shock me again with such a disordered map :P
Online @ [OTB] Beta!
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yea its my own env. but i did fix sun lighting and try to reduce lag but ive given up and i fink i uploaded wrong version and wrong screenies... they were fastvis not final. but anyway im done for this map after all no one will play it, its too laggy. ty tho chefkiller, really helpful.
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The players liked it, if it comes on the beta server. But there are too much lags to have a good gameplay...
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The problem is that you can look from base to base all the time. I can try to reduce the lags though.
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yes that would be great chefkiller, if you can reduce the lag i'll realign all textures etc. and final compile and see if we have a playable map.
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I've worked a little bit with the map. It's mapped very unclear and it would be easier to rebuild the whole map, so I decided not to spend more time in it :-\
Note four things for other maps:
- try to use the 16 unit grid for the whole map. With this grid it's a lot easier for new mappers to avoid all these rough edges.
- try not to use the feature for cutting out stuff. It doesn't work well with less or more complex brushes. You destroyed the whole mapfile with it.
- pay attention to warnings, errors, etc. If something appears, stop mapping and fix it first. It's too much work to do it later for the whole map.
- try to make a structure where you can't look from base to base for better r_speeds and less lags.
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okay chefkiller thanks. The only reason i used less than the 16 unit grid was for details sake, I see now tho it wouldnt have made much of difference. Many thanks for all the help everyone, i may not have a completed map but i have learnt some lessons for future mapping. :)