Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Topic started by: Chef-Killer on December 23, 2010, 02:52:57 PM
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This game has lots of maps. All the maps are a big part of the game and they're very important for it. But next to the better maps there're unfortunately many maps with fundamental bugs, misalignments, other problems or just unfinished ones. There're also many maps with less obvious things like "why do I look in front of a wall after respawn" or "why does my team has worse items". This can be fixed for better balanced maps, too. All in all it's very important to improve the current maps/maplists. Jitspoe accepted to establish a mapping committee for that, because it needs a lot of work. The mapping committee will mainly improve the current maps.
Maybe, with time, we can fill the server rotations with solid, fun, good-looking, accessible maps that will keep new players coming back for more.
Some examples of things the committee may have to work on:
- enforcing some hard standards for (match) maps
- selecting the maps that meet the new standards and creating maplists
- creating files for each map (ent, mapinfo, mapshot, etc.)
- fixing up popular maps that doesn't meet the new standards and gradually replace the old maps
- improving and finishing eternal beta maps with much potential
So if you're interested in helping out on the mapping committee, please respond to the following questions. BSP experiences would be helpful.
How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
How would you deal with a total bugmap you really like?
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
EDIT: Thanks for the help ViciouZ, my english isn't the best ;)
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I've altered the questions a bit because the wording was a bit awkward for some of them, hopefully you don't mind :)
How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
2 or 3 hours, I am quite busy with schoolwork.
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
Played 06-08 mainly, mapped 07-present, I'm familiar with pretty much all the classic match and pub maps and most newer ones.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
8 - I understand and have used almost all of the features of BSP, just not repeatedly.
(Also, maybe you could open this up beyond BSP - QuArK and Worldcraft have been used to great effect as well.)
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
7 - Many are great for gameplay, but have minor issues or aesthetic problems.
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
5 - We definitely have more than enough variety at the moment, but many of them are of bad quality and so are never played. A balance of quality and quantity is required rather than favouring one or the other.
How would you decide on a total bugmap you really like?
Again, not entirely sure how this is meant to be answered. I guess if there was a very broken map that I liked I'd try and fix it up.
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
Yes. Especially if the changes would fix the reason the map wasn't liked, without changing the original feel.
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
It really depends on each case.
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
If both teams agree, sure.
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
After I stopped playing the game, mapping has kept me involved with the community. While I'm bad at making new maps from scratch, I think I could help improve other maps on the committee or just provide more manpower.
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On a scale from 1 to 10, how important would you say is the high selection/quality of maps. 1 being different kinds of maps is everything. 10 being each map should be 101% perfect.
7 - Not exactly sure what this question is asking, but I don't think it's necessary for something to be completely perfect to be released, 75% polished or so is enough.
What's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
Is this question easier to understand?
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What's more important for you? A big choice of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
Is this question easier to understand?
Yes, thanks, I'll change my post :)
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lol mapping commitee :D what next ?
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Is bad fps on some maps caused by using the wrong brushes/overlapping?
If so , would this committee fix some of the maps?
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Bad mapping can result in bad fps, yes.
Yes again, it's too much work to remake all maps, but of course it's scheduled to fix problems / rebuild as many maps as possible (especially the popular maps).
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Bad mapping can result in bad fps, yes.
Yes again, it's too much work to remake all maps, but of course it's scheduled to fix problems / rebuild as many maps as possible (especially the popular maps).
In my opinion screw the popular maps. I got so bored of pubbing I just gave up, because its always the same maps. Rebuild/remake/rewhatever or just in general, complete maps that have a feel and good gameplay. Get some good maps out there, and reduce/remove the overplayed ones. There's only been a few maps, like literally a few maps that have made it into the 'popular' category in the last couple of years, or maybe even more.
But do something about this. Its the best map I've ever seen, and I want it out in the pubs :D.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=6172.0
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Yes, that map is really nice. But its not the right topic to discuss about it here :P
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Let's do step by step. It needs a lot of time and work and there're not many volunteers atm :'( Maybe some more people are interested when they see and know how the mapping committee works.
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I think the most users don't believe that this is an official committee searching. Maybe jitspoe should write some words here.
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I believe it's because a mapping committee would only work if server admins followed it. Since most server admins won't care, I don't think a mapping committee could help at all until there was a solid base of players for server admins to care about the community. :/
I believe we need an advertisement committee, or a 'let's get people interested in this game' committee first, to get a solid base, so that people who support the game financially would show more interest. Either that or a create development TEAM, to expedite major updates to the game... ;)
Not trying to kill a map committee, just trying to create ideas to help the game faster and better.
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
Around 7 hours, maybe more.
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
I play since 2004, have mapped around two hours and know almost all maps from our ftp.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
3, i know what bsp is, can change easy things and know a good tutorial :P
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
5, there are some really nice (old and new) maps, but in the last time we have more and more maps with always the same bugs which will never gone in the whole beta stage.
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
10, we have already a big choice/possibility of maps. Now its time to make perfect ones.
How would you decide on a total bugmap you really like?
Delete it.
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
If its possible to make it much more better an acceptable amount of time, yes.
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
Its hard to say. There are different maps with many kinds of bugs, so maybe one a month or two (including internal gameplay tests).
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
On pub servers ok, if they are good enough and doesn't have gameplay related bugs. On match servers not. They should only have finished maps.
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
I like it so search bugs and i'm able to enforce the new standards on all of our servers.
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I believe it's because a mapping committee would only work if server admins followed it.
Quite true. It'll never work otherwise. Also, current maps that are popular and still in beta, such as twilight (i think it is) and the such, we can't just go round editing maps and completing them, or fixing them without mappers permission either. I honestly wouldn't want someone decompiling one of my maps.
I wouldn't mind helping, but with the amount of time on my hands I'll have once school's back, I'd never be round. Also I don't know how to use BSP to large extents, I just know the basics :P.
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There're already a few ideas how can it work without the server admins.
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I think the main problem is that it won't be easy to find volunteers to clean up the mess others started... :X
Although I consider it a good idea to finally release some popular beta maps, I fear the few good mappers we have around would rather start own projects than finish others' sloppy seconds
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I think the main problem is that it won't be easy to find volunteers to clean up the mess others started... :X
A way to clean that would be to add another sub-board, like how there is completed maps, but add a Beta Maps or something section, to keep the beta release maps away from questions and the sort, and just gradually move them in there, etc. Gives people an opportunity to download these maps as well, without having to fish through countless help me threads that can be answered by looking at stickies. From what I can think of, both a committee and the public would advantage from this.
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It's important that people will improve and finish their own maps by them self imo. Most of them are first beta forever or people ignore feedback, because the map is playable on servers anyway.
There is enough work for the committee to improve the current maps. Working on beta maps shouldn't be the main part we'll do at first.
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Why work on the current released maps? Yeah, they may have faults, but they aren't new. A committee should be focusing on controlling is what is about to be released as a final as a main priority, not what already has been released as a final. You can focus on whats released after, or during the mean time, because isn't it better to have more maps coming in that are completed, than focusing on perfecting the overplayed maps while the junk still piles in?
I know that there are some horrible maps out there mapping wise, but if people aren't complaining, leave em, and focus on the new stuff. Make sure it doesn't turn out like the stuff that's already there.
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People are complaining, though, or worse, they play the game for the first time, and all they see are poorly constructed maps, and never play again.
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Not to drive this thread offtopic, but Jitspoe, are you sure it has more to do with a misaligned texture here and there over the terrible default textures? I think the low-res texture's on download drive way more people away then the poorly constructed maps. Most pub maps (other then dhemap) don't have to many noticeable flaws.
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I agree with jitspoe. And misaligned textures/bad looking maps is only one problem.
There're also lots of beta or just unfinished maps.
There're also lots of maps with wrong, unbalanced or missing entities/settings.
There're also lots of maps with leaks.
There're also lots of maps without full VIS (or with lags).
There're also lots of maps without lighting.
There're also lots of maps ...
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I'd be willing to critique maps, but I don't have tons of time to work on them.
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It's not just texture alignment. When somebody plays the game for the first time and sees this (attached), it doesn't matter how good the textures and models look.
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I have been bugging Jitspoe for a 2 years to make a official level design team
Someone need to make the bsp mapeditor online compatible so multiple people can work on a map at the same time.
Or Jitspoe needs to make a new editor so that way when the level design team needs something tweaked Jitspoe can easily change it in the code.
I'd vote on Jitspoe needs to make a new editor.
anyways i could put in a few hours a week at the moment but maybe more in the near future.
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Someone need to make the bsp mapeditor online compatible so multiple people can work on a map at the same time.
I don't like this idea. Each mapper has an own style how to map and it would be hard to get the orientation, if a few people work on a map.
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
10 - 15 hours.
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How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
I've been playing... ehh 6-7 years mapping 3-4 years and i know too many maps.
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On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
I gotta say around 7. Not to experienced with sounds, doors, and other things basic maps do not have.
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On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
3. All the current maps only take in the aspect of gameplay not looks nor anything else. A map needs gameplay and looks in order in my list to be a good map.
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On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
Few maps with very high quality 10-20 maps is all a small comunity needs. Look at all the Ps3 and XBox360 fps, they only have 10-20 maps.
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How would you decide on a total bugmap you really like?
If it's too laggy for other players and if their are leaks, no lighting or if the map's gameplay isn't solid enough.
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Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
Yes, as long as i don;t lag when im playing them =D
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How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
A week for a small map.. around 2 hours a day. 2-4 months on a big map 1-2hours a day.
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What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
I think that this idea is only good for gameplay in matches. other than that i think they should stay on the beta severs. In my opinion mappers should be allowed to upload their maps to beta server change map and test on it privately.
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Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
I like to map, I'm active and i have been around a long time in the matching scene to know what people like. This tells that i can Combine the 2 factors of map making quality and gameplay.
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I don't like this idea. Each mapper has an own style how to map and it would be hard to get the orientation, if a few people work on a map.
well we now know who is self centered and isnt willing to work with a team :)
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Maybe, but it is my opinion. That doesn't fit together.
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I think if you moved it into the mapping forum, it would get more attention by mappers. I had found it three days after the fact myself because it was here. Usually mappers are on the mapping forum.
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
- Depends on how many maps are still in beta. I would actually maybe spend 1 and a half hour a day. So, it would be 10 hours a week or so.
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
- I've played for like 2 years. I've mapped for 6 months (although i don't release most of them), and I know tons of maps (when I'm bored, I download some obscure maps on OTB's ftp and try them out).
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
- 8.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
- 4. There are a lot of excellent maps (pbcup_ series, OTB's maps, propaint1, shazam22), but a lot of people are playing "bad" maps, the good maps are slowly fading away. I'm generally satisfied, but some maps are badly made, and the gameplay is screwed by things like "one path" maps, or ice maps.
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
- 10 definetly. Quality over quantity.
How would you decide on a total bugmap you really like?
- If there are misaligned textures, bad lighting, entities etc..., I would try to fix it and release it as remake.
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
- Yes, why not. I always want to add my "touch" to improve maps.
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
- Depends on how big the map is. I would say 3 weeks or so.
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
- On public, it would be nice. People would test the map, and maybe give their opinion and advise about it on the forum (which, unfortunatly, never or rarely happens). On matches, as soon as the map is playable and without bugs it's fine. A lot of beta maps are very good, but unfortunatly, they're not finished.
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
- Because I really want to help the mapping community: improving the maps, making them better etc.... I'm not pessimist, this game has a great potential in mapping, although bsp is a bit outdated imo. Furthermore, mapping is entertaining. So, I'm willing to help.
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
Depends on school work and exams but at least 4 hrs a week and maybe more mainly at weekends
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
Ive been playing for a while now, and started mapping about a year ago now. I know most maps and all fairly well.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
6 or 7. I know how to do most things in bsp and wally etc.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
6 or 7 again. I think there are alot of nice maps but also alot of disappointing ones (some being mine :P)
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
10 without a doubt. The age old cliche applies: Quality not Quantity.
How would you decide on a total bugmap you really like?
(this question doesnt make sense, i think you want to say, "how would you deal with a totally bugmap...")
Depends on what is wrong with the map exactly. Ofcourse at first i would try to fix things however if this proves to difficult and pointless just delete the map.
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
Ofcourse, Im not one to judge as my efforts havn't proved particularly good and i therefore understand the challenge of designing a map and appreciate most maps.
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
You can never really give an accurate answer to this question as some maps may have only one or two problems whereas others may have several and the time needed on each will differ greatly.
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
As long as the map doesn't affect gameplay i see no problem with either pub or match, however, I believe beta maps should generally not be played on match servers.
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
I really enjoy mapping and generally developing things to do with the game, like textures etc. I want to give something back and help out really
thanks :)
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
maybe 10-12 hours
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
i started playing last year and started mapping recently. I don't know much maps.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do
everything with BSP.)
maybe a 3 or 4... i know the basics and can learn fast (have made a few small maps)
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
5
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
a 7. the maps should look good, but they don't have to be perfect.
How would you deal with a total bugmap you really like?
I'll try to fix it
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
yes
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
that depends of the size of the map
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
Why not, if the maps are good, sure. I think that the dream of every maper is to have atleast one map on a pub server. (that's mine ;) )
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
Bcz i want to help the new mapers to achieve their goal in having their maps on public servers :)
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Just for future reference, here's a link to a past thread about the mapping committee idea (http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=17869.0).
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
4-5 hours
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
Idk how long i play but my id is 29584, mapping more than 1 year and i know a lot of maps.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
7
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
7
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
6
How would you deal with a total bugmap you really like?
I would repair that map.
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
If this map will be often played, yes.
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
It depends on size of map. (but about 2-3 months)
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
I haven´t problem with this, but map must be playable and without leaks.
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
I know both sides of game, from view of mapper and player.
Edit:I didn´t read previous post. :/
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
5 Hours
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
Idk, i know many many maps, i can't count. I play pb for 2 years and i map 1year and 6 months.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
i think 5 or 6. I know all what you need,
but i know also things you dont need for a normal map, so groups clippers doors and so on (:
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
6
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
8. I love maps with accessoires, but when the map have a good gameplay and you can play it with taktik, its also very nice too.
How would you deal with a total bugmap you really like?
When the map doesn't leak, i will play it. When the map leaks i think it's difficult.
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
Of course! The beta maps with many mislanged textures must be fixed too, and i want to help that the beta-map becomes a really nice look and gameplay =D
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
For a standard-map you need 1week. For a really professionale map you need 2months or 3, in my option.
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
When it is a good beta map without leaks, i think its ok. For example sassault4_b2 is a really nice map, in my option its a good map for matches.
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
I would share my experience to the new/old mappers, and help them. I have a lot of fun at mapping, and so i have also fun to current maps (:
Sri, for my english, its not the best, but i think you can understand me (:
- Burnhouse / Burnie
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How much time per week would you be willing to spend for improving the current maps?
5 hours.
How long have you played, how long have you mapped (if applicable) and how many maps do you know?
I play 2 years. I mapp 1 year and 7 months and i know so many maps.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how experienced would you say you are with BSP or other mapping tools? (1 being you know what bsp is. 10 being you can do everything with BSP.)
5-6
On a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with the current maps? (1 being no maps are of good standard. 10 being all of the maps are perfect.)
7
On a scale from 1 to 10, what's more important for you? A big choice/possibility of maps (1) or only a few maps, but with a very high quality (10)?
8
How would you deal with a total bugmap you really like?
i would fix that bugs.
Would you be willing to support/improve maps you don't like?
yes, because every map is unique.
How much time would you say is necessary for each map (on average)?
depends on size of map
What do you think about beta maps on pub/match server?
There are some really nice beta maps for matching but i don't think they are good for pub, because much of beta maps aren't very popular and on pub should only be the most famous beta maps.
Why do you feel you would be a good member of the mapping committee?
i mapp now more than 1 year and have much experience. i'm really active in the forums
i can mapp with pr0shack terrain :) i love mapping
sry for my english ;D