Digital Paint Discussion Board

Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: Lucky7 on February 11, 2011, 11:14:27 AM

Title: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 4)
Post by: Lucky7 on February 11, 2011, 11:14:27 AM

2 Teams: Red & Blue

Game Mode: CTF (1 flag per team)

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8281/sshot0000.jpg)

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1802/sshot0001v.jpg)

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6741/sshot0002.jpg)

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: T3RR0R15T on February 11, 2011, 11:55:10 AM

Didn't you tested it ingame? There are "bad field"-messages, while the map is loading. Fix this messages and the leak, if we should upload your map to the servers.

Ignore never a leak message or an error, if you compile a map.

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Lucky7 on February 11, 2011, 03:41:41 PM

@T3RROR15T i fixed the errors while loading, but i couldnt find any leak.
Pls send me screenshots of the leaks so i can fix them

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: T3RR0R15T on February 11, 2011, 04:43:36 PM

The easiest way to find them is to use the function in bsp.
- load the map
- go to "File" -> "Leak Check" -> "Load Leak File..."
- open "trainingcamp_b1.lin"
- you have a new, colored line now. one end of it goes out of the map (to the leak).

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Lucky7 on February 13, 2011, 06:49:38 PM

OK, i've fixed the leaks and uploaded the map

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: prozajik on February 14, 2011, 03:16:54 AM

And where is the file? Is it that trainingcamp_b1? You should add new beta file maybe (b2) so everyone can know it is new and repaired ;)

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Lucky7 on February 14, 2011, 03:20:18 AM

@ prozajik   It is "b1".  I didn't change it to "b2" bcz i changed nothing in the map, it's identicall like "b1", i just got rid of the leaks ;)

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: prozajik on February 14, 2011, 06:47:58 AM

Quote from: Lucky7 on February 14, 2011, 03:20:18 AM

i changed nothing in the map.., i just got rid of the leaks ;)

So you improved the map it means b2 :D. Np its your choice ;). But please update the screenshots. I remembered sreenshots from b1 and now you said its uploaded and there were still same screens thats what confused me ;). So pls update screens to make it more clear.

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Chef-Killer on February 14, 2011, 11:59:28 AM

Prozaijk is right, the same name for a different file confused me, too. I have the latest b1 and the map still leaks and isn't lighted. And there're lots of overlapping brushes. A map with transparent walls like you did in this version of the map doesn't work also. I guess you want to have walls like you already have in the screenshots (earlier b1?).

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: prozajik on February 14, 2011, 12:21:11 PM

I tested the map and yea its still not lit :/. If you cant find any leaks remember that the sky needs to by made from 1 piece (or at least if you have 2 brushes of sky they cant cover each other) i had to fix that sky on my map maybe isn there your problem? Also there could be a problem with numportals (when you press final compile you will se it as last row above 1...2....3....4...., if the number is higher then 7000 then the map sometimes doesnt lit (idk this is what selda told me :D ) if you want to reduce it you have to click on some details (small wood,...) and from surface window (press S) tick detail option and click apply brush (if you dont want to have your face texutres destroyed you have make it for each face separately but remember you have to apply it also to faces that are not visible while playing or you will get mixed face brushes erro ;) )
Also you should think about deleting that water(or lowering heigh or anything like that) i have r_speed 8K there which is not really good

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Chef-Killer on February 14, 2011, 12:37:45 PM

Quote from: prozajik on February 14, 2011, 12:21:11 PM

if you want to reduce it you have to click on some details (small wood,...) and from surface window (press S) tick detail option and click apply brush (if you dont want to have your face texutres destroyed you have make it for each face separately but remember you have to apply it also to faces that are not visible while playing or you will get mixed face brushes erro ;) )

...or just select the brushes and click this very useful button (http://www.otb-server.de/bilder/tutorial/bsp_brush_detail_hinzufuegen.bmp) once. It'll only set the detail flag for the whole brushes without destroying any alignments or other surface settings. If you don't have this button in your toolbar, you can grab this bsp: ftp://otb-server.de/pub/BSP%20-%20Map%20Editor/BSP_setup.exe (ftp://otb-server.de/pub/BSP%20-%20Map%20Editor/BSP_setup.exe)

Quote from: prozajik on February 14, 2011, 12:21:11 PM

Also you should think about deleting that water(or lowering heigh or anything like that) i have r_speed 8K there which is not really good

Leaks always result in high r_speeds. I think fixing the leak will solve all r_speeds problems, because this map is very small.

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: prozajik on February 14, 2011, 12:57:55 PM

Quote from: Chef-Killer on February 14, 2011, 12:37:45 PM

...or just select the brushes and click this very useful button (http://www.otb-server.de/bilder/tutorial/bsp_brush_detail_hinzufuegen.bmp) once. It'll only set the detail flag for the whole brushes without destroying any alignments or other surface settings...

and i was setting faces separately on my sald .... thanks chef :D

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Chef-Killer on February 14, 2011, 04:02:22 PM

Fixed the leak for you. There were only transparent walls instead of solid walls.

I also lowered the sky a little bit, scaled up the unvisible base- and skytextures and detailed the barrels. You really need to change all barrels from x-sided to 8-sided, that there won't be any problems with the low bsp limits, the r_speeds, etc.

Here's the .map and the .bsp (fastvis). Didn't get enough time to run a final compile. The r_speeds are still very high (because of no final compile, x-sided barrels, high routes where you can see the whole map all the time, maybe reflective water, etc.).

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: T3RR0R15T on February 14, 2011, 04:58:34 PM

Here is a final compile:

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Lucky7 on February 14, 2011, 04:59:35 PM

THX GUYS

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp
Post by: Lucky7 on February 15, 2011, 09:30:07 AM

here is the 2nd beta

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 2)
Post by: Chef-Killer on February 26, 2011, 09:32:45 AM

Now a few things about the second beta.

You don't need to add our names in the message. It's meant nice, but it's your map. We only tried to help you a little bit :D

I don't like the sun settings. Almost the whole map has shadows. Try to use some default settings like these:

Code: [Select]

"_sun_light" "250"
"_sun_angle" "198 -65"
"_sun_ambient" "30"
"_sun_diffuse" "60"
Nice to see that you used the angle key for the spawns. But I'd use "angle" "0" and "angle" "180" instead of "angle" "359" and "angle" "180". The opposite of 180 is 0/360 and not 359 :P

You used lots of additional grens, but they doesn't work. Imo there're too many of them if they would work. However, add "count" "1" for them. You could also use "type" "paint/smoke", "group" "#" (for the same type in both bases, if they spawn randomly) and/or "angle" "-1" (that they spawn exact where you placed them and not in the area around this position).

The other entities are looking very nice.

I made three screenshots with general stuff. The rest of this map is probably a matter of taste. But for your first maps it's more important to work on general stuff, and try to understand bsp better and better than making perfect looking maps (this doesn't mean that you don't need to align your stuff).

(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1565.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1564.jpg)
Red (i hope you can notice it): You need to align all of your textures. Here you need to rotate the some wood faces. I don't know if you ever did it, select your brush/es or face and open the surface window with s.
(http://www.otb-server.de/bilder/tutorial/bsp_einstellungen3.png)
Than change the values and click apply brush/face.
S moves horizontal (units)
T moves vertical (units)
R rotates (degrees)
SX changes the horizontal size (percent)
SY changes the vertical size (percent)
Green: The brushes around the base make the flag harder to grab. I would delete them.
Yellow: Use an other texture for the ground. Gras doesn't grow in the water.

(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1567.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1566.jpg)
Yellow: Just an example, I didn't marked all small barrels. scale down the texture on the side of the barrel, if you use small ones.
Red: Just an example, too. Rotate all red marked wood faces, that it looks correct aligned.

(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1569.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1568.jpg)
Yellow: I guess you can't change it anymore for this map without deleting the high path. Just for following maps. You can look through the sky. So if you use a skybrush as a wall, you can look through the wall. Try not to use skybrushes as a wall in such high areas. It's also not good, if the map is completely opened like it is here. You can look from base to base and the game needs to show everything all the time. This also raises up the r_speeds a lot. For following maps, try to create ways where you can't see everything, that the map is more closed. High ways above the whole map are very bad for the game most of the time. But the structure of the map is a lot better than the structure at your first map. Keep on working.

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 3)
Post by: Lucky7 on March 02, 2011, 07:15:11 AM

ok, i added the 3rd beta, take a look and have fun ;)

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 3)
Post by: Chef-Killer on March 05, 2011, 05:31:06 AM

Yeeeeess, this is a sun lighting. Looks much better with these settings. I hope you can notice the change with less shadows, too.

The new texture under the water looks also way better then the one before.

I forgot to say last time, that I would make the planks a little bit more thick. That would look more realistic.

One very imortant thing you need to learn is the alignment. For this beta, you rotated two faces of the wood e.g. But the planks have 6 faces. Note that there're still 4 faces, you didn't work on.

The r_speeds are still very high for such a small map. Here's a a top view of this map. Note that it isn't important what YOU can see, it's important what the GAME needs to show. As you can see, there's a possibility for the game to look from base to base. That's why the game needs to show almost the whole map all the time. I hope you can understand the problem with the structure for your next maps. It's important that you think about it before starting to map.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1585.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/1584.jpg)
Yellow are the solid walls of your map.
Yellow dashed are the holes in the solid walls (because of ways, routes, jumps, etc.).
Blue is just a possible diagonal.
Red are the two areas, where the diagonal should be blocked by a solid wall. But exactly this areas aren't solid because of holes in the wall.

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 4)
Post by: Lucky7 on March 10, 2011, 08:14:39 AM

here is the beta 4

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 4)
Post by: T3RR0R15T on March 10, 2011, 09:18:43 AM

Online @ [OTB] Beta (83.169.4.183:22222).


Can you remove the red marked brushes, that a player can walk there without crouching?

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 4)
Post by: jitspoe on March 27, 2011, 05:26:02 AM

Put this up on the beta server and played it.  It was actually pretty fun.  The gameplay with the low barrels in the middle worked out pretty well (lots of crouching and arcing balls over to hit people).  Crouching under the forts was fun, too.

Since the short barrels look kind of bad, I would just scale the entire barrel down (32 units tall, radius of 12, scale texture by .5).  It would also allow you to be able to move in between the barrels under the forts, which would be nice.

Some of the bunkers in the middle need the border textures rotated.  Also, if I recall correctly, the windows were too low to provide much cover while standing, but too high to shoot through while crouched.

On the top area, some of the boxes are too close to the wall -- looks like you can walk by them, but you can't.

Only part I don't like is the base - it's way too easy to defend the flag, as there's only one tiny opening to get to it.  At the moment, most people are distracted trying to jump up the pillars, but if people play it seriously, getting a flag capture would be almost impossible.

Visually the map looks OK, but adding some natural shapes to the rocks so everything isn't just all flat walls would help a lot.

PM me if you need the login for the beta server so you can play test your map.

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 4)
Post by: Lucky7 on March 27, 2011, 05:01:56 PM

@ Terrorist - I can remove them. ;)

@ Jitspoe -
1st. Thx for the reply ^^
2nd. The barrels look nice like they are, bcz i tryed to eddit them and it didn't work(that's the best i could do)
3rd. About the windows, you'r right, but that doesn't bother bcz it works fine like it is. Btw, you can go few steps back and shoot trough them while crouching
4th.About the boxes on the top, i made that so it would be easyer to kill someone who is hiding up
5th. About the base. I thought that too, i just might delete the glass(like Cheff told me)

Btw, everyone who played this map didn't complain about these things, maybe you'r (the map comitee) too strickt.

Title: Re: NewMap: Training Camp (beta 4)
Post by: jitspoe on March 27, 2011, 07:08:33 PM

I've attached a .map with 32x24 barrels.  You should just be able to copy/paste these, keep the textures locked, and move them wherever you want (space bar to clone).

We're not complaining.  We're just providing constructive criticism to help make the map better.