Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: bLiNdThInG on January 06, 2012, 02:55:35 PM
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Hey all, back with another map.
As some of you may know I like to add some custom textures into my maps and this one is no different, but if alot of you don't like the textures for whatever reason then I'll just switch them to the ordinary pball ones, so let me know what you think of them.
The map itself isn't particularly big. It's CTF, 2 teams, red & blue, 1 flag per team. There are 3 ways to main mid I guess and 2 to low. There is a kind of narrow high either side and kind of speed down the centre. The area around base is quite narrow as is most of the map in fact.
Everything is not quite perfect yet, misalinged textures here and there, but along with your feedback for changes etc. that will all be corrected for the next beta.
Here is the download because I couldn't upload it here:
BETA 1
http://www.mediafire.com/?qzdw1j13paklw3k
http://www.mediafire.com/?7d4u48i08u674x1
http://www.mediafire.com/?k7cbc7u54r5y61q
BETA 2
http://www.mediafire.com/?mbcvi935aeo1jyh
Thanks, blindy
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Love it
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Looks good, but does nobody know how to resize pictures on this forum? sheesh
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Thanks guys.
Looks good, but does nobody know how to resize pictures on this forum? sheesh
Sorry superman I just forgot ...
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Can you upload the sky textures or use another sky in the next beta?
The low res and hr4 textures shouldn't have the same size. So you need to scale down the low res textures to 25%.
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Thanks T3RR0R15T. I knew i forgot something! Edited the original post download link. New link includes env and resized textures.
(p.s. The env sky has images of 1024x1024, are they too large?)
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Looks good, but does nobody know how to resize pictures on this forum? sheesh
My new monitor is just big enough :)
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It's ok, if you place them in the env/hr4 folder. The normal sky textures shouldn't be so big. If you scale them down to 25% (256x256) for the normal sky folder, it should work too.
The other low res textures are at 75% now, not 25%.
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It's ok, if you place them in the env/hr4 folder. The normal sky textures shouldn't be so big. If you scale them down to 25% (256x256) for the normal sky folder, it should work too.
Okay thanks, done that.
The other low res textures are at 75% now, not 25%.
:-[ oops, fixed now.
My new monitor is just big enough :)
You must have a nice big monitor then.
(note to self: resize sshots)
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i like it blindy, well play it as celebration when you get into warwick or something :p
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i like it blindy, well play it as celebration when you get into warwick or something :p
Got rejected :'(, but thanks anyways, we should, would be nice :). Any suggestions btw?
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Sorry for the late feedback. Nice to see that you started a new map.
In my opinion it's most important for you to learn the basics of texture alignment and a clean brushwork instead of creating and using your own textures (I guess the sizes are fixed now), creating and using your own models (where you can walk and shoot through) and adding things like jump pads. I think you should try to improve your mapping skills step by step (it's the same with some other mappers).
It's very helpful to know how you can create a correct barrel (or box).
1. Create a brush, e.g. 64x64x64 units (start the x-y-z-axis at 0)
2. Use the tool N-Sided Brush (toolbar or menu brush->make->n-sided)
3. Set sides 8 and radius 24 (diameter of 48 units)
4. Choose a barrel texture, use the top and bottom texture for the top and bottom of the barrel
5. Lock the textures with ALT+L!
6. Set the detail flag (toolbar or menu brush->detail->add detail)
Now you have a nice barrel, that you can move, copy, paste or duplicate without destroying the texture alignment. It's nearly the same with boxes (except step 2 and 3). You can also have a look at the attachments.
Let's come to your map now...
Replace "teams" "2" with "maxteams" "2" in the worldspawn to fix the bad field warning while loading the map ingame.
Because you are using a sk89q tree model, add "requiredfiles" "scripts/sktrees1.txt" to the worldspawn. After that people without the tree model will be able to download the necessary script as well if it's uploaded to the server.
I'd lower the second value of "_sun_angle" "150 -34" to avoid some more shadows, because your map has lots of narrow ways with high walls where the sun doesn't really shine.
You can delete all "team" keys from the player spawns. You have "teamnumber" "#", that's the correct one.
Note that you won't get additional grenades without adding "count" "1".
All barrels and most of the boxes are misaligned. Have a look at the explanation above.
The gras models are looking cool.
And screenshots...
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2953.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2952.jpg)
Red: Rotate this face.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2955.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2954.jpg)
Red: Rotate this faces, too.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2957.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2956.jpg)
Red: Rotate this faces, too.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2959.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2958.jpg)
Red: The tree model is a little big too big for this place. I'd make the place a little bit wider, that the tree model doesn't touch the walls.
Without color: You can run and shoot through the tree model. Add an invisible wood brush to fix this (wood because of the texture sounds).
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2908.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2907.jpg)
Red: Rotate this faces, too (up and down).
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2910.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2909.jpg)
Red: The same like the tree model. You can run and shoot through this rope model. Add an invisible brush to fix it.
Blue: You forgot to rotate the small face on the left side.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2912.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2911.jpg)
Red: Small edges where you can get stuck.
Blue: Wrong top texture, should be gras.
Orange: Big edge where you can get stuck. I'd bevel the wall slightly. A clip brush might also help to fix this.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2914.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2913.jpg)
Red: What's that?
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2916.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2915.jpg)
Red: The textures doesn't fit here. Make sure that all wall textures have surface properties of S=0, T=0 and R=0.
Blue: One more small edge where you can get stuck.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2918.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2917.jpg)
Red: One more small edge where you can get stuck.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2920.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2919.jpg)
Red: What's that?
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2922.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2921.jpg)
Red: And that? More small edges and holes.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2924.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2923.jpg)
Red: More small edges where you can get stuck.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2926.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2925.jpg)
Red: Hm...I guess you added a second wall brush here. If so, just delete it and it should look a lot better. If not, find out what happened here.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2928.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2927.jpg)
Red: I'd add a small triangle wall brush here. It's almost like the green one a few screenshots before.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2930.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2929.jpg)
Red: One more small edge where you can get stuck.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2932.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2931.jpg)
Red: The wood corner isn't big enough. Looks a little bit weird.
Orange: The textures doesn't fit here.
Blue: The light textures are misaligned (too big). You need to scale the texture down or change the brush size. I'd also reduce the lighting a little bit (lower value).
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2934.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2933.jpg)
Red: The textures doesn't fit here.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2936.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2935.jpg)
Blue: It looks like the barrels and the other stuff low is flying because of the thick ice brush. I'd just increase the ground and make it slick (without an additional ice brush). Looks very crazy.
Map is online @ [OTB] Beta!
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Okay thanks chefkiller. Sorry i'm late replying.
In my opinion it's most important for you to learn the basics of texture alignment and a clean brushwork instead of creating and using your own textures.
As I explained in my original post, in b1 not all textures were aligned etc. but I will sort this out along with any other suggestions.
It's very helpful to know how you can create a correct barrel (or box).
I already know how to do this. But I guess your referring to my boxes? In which case I can assure you they will be fixed in b2 :)
6. Set the detail flag (toolbar or menu brush->detail->add detail)
I've never really used this because i'm not quite sure what it does. So.. what exactly does it do? :P
I'd lower the second value of "_sun_angle" "150 -34"
What value would work best then?
As for everything else, ie your screenshots, I've fixed most things. Just finishing off for beta 2 release. Although i can't see your first 4 screenshots for some reason? Oh and you said that my barrel's are misallgined..., but they aren't? So im not sure what you meant by that but from what i can see, they're fine.
Also, any suggestions for layout changes etc.? Because at the moment it's quite narrow and restricting i find.
Thanks blindy.
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Texture alignment: Of course you can align all the stuff afterwards, but it's less effort if you're doing it directly after creating the brush (and lock textures before copying them). Just a helpful tip imo.
Detail: Means that these brushes are map details and not that important for the vis. You can add it to barrels, boxes, planks and other stuff that doesn't block the vis. It saves lots of numportals what's very helpful for large and opened maps. Also the final compile is a lot faster with less numportals.
Sun angle: I'm not sure what value works best. You need to test it with different angles. I'd try something like "_sun_angle" "150 -50". But maybe there's a better value for this. Really hard to tell without testing.
Screenshots 1-4: Oh, I had have some troubles with my internet connection while uploading the screenshots. I guess that's why the first screenshots are broken. Fixed now.
Barrels: The top is aligned well, but the sides are misaligned. Might be helpful to have a look at the texture that you see how it should look like. Also I'd do the barrels 8-sided to make them looking a bit more realistic.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2961.jpg) (http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2960.jpg)
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/2963.jpg)
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Texture alignment: Of course you can align all the stuff afterwards, but it's less effort if you're doing it directly after creating the brush (and lock textures before copying them). Just a helpful tip imo.
I did do this for all the barrels, which is probably why all of the sides are misaligned :P
Okay yeah, I'll have to try a few different angles out then and just go on what looks best.
Barrels: The top is aligned well, but the sides are misaligned. Might be helpful to have a look at the texture that you see how it should look like. Also I'd do the barrels 8-sided to make them looking a bit more realistic.
Yeah I agree. I think 8-sided will look more realistic so I'll change that aswell. Having looked at your screenshot and the texture itself, it appears that my barrels are too short. Looks like the top and bottom of the texture are missing. I'll get 1 barrel right and then copy this. Thanks for your help and suggestions btw :)
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yet another good map by blindy gj :D
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I few things that must be fixed:
- All file names must be completely lower case to be compatible with Linux (case-sensitive OS. AKA pointless pain in the butt).
- The image dimensions must be powers of 2. Your HR4 textures should be scaled to 512x512.
The map layout itself seems decent. My biggest complaint is the fact that all of the walls are flat. This makes things bland and unrealistic. You should make use of clipping planes to make some more realistic rock faces. A few added details can go a long way. Also, fix the alignment issues chef-killer pointed out.
If you fix the first 2 things, I can put it up on the beta server.
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Okay thanks. Beta 2 is on the way, as I said that I would finish this map on the area52 map thread, I just don't have alot of time at the moment.
The textures in the HR4 folder don't have to be 512x512 do they? and will this affect anything? Yeah, a few other people have mentioned the high flat walls etc so I will try to make them abit more interesting etc. As for the texture allignement that's almost all done.
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They don't have to be 512x512, but they have to be some power of 2 (64, 128, 256, 512, 1024...) Currently they're being rescaled in game to a power of 2, and it looks bad (notice the blocky artifacts).
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BETA 2
Hey all back with beta 2, all links and screenshots above.
I've tried to address all of the issues and problems brought to my attention aswell as making the map more interesting. Quite a few changes, mainly being the map is alot more open now, walls aren't as high and some routes have changed a bit. Having quickly checked the map again, I've noticed a couple of obvious problems. Anyway let me know what you think. Enjoy.
-blindy.
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Haven't had any feedback for b2 yet, so i'm still wondering where to go with it... Feedback would be much appreciated. Or maybe I should move on and leave this map?
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Sorry, didn't had enough time to post new feedback yet.
But personally I like b1 more than b2 for some reason. Don't know why exactly.
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That's no problem. Thanks and yeah, I can understand that. I just tried to make it more interesting but maybe im going about it wrong... Suggestions?
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I don't know b1 so I can't comment which is better.
Not a bad map. Looks a little bit complex, so needs 2 adequate teams to have a fun match. Nothing wrong with that I guess.
I for one didn't like the ice jump up the ramp through some tiny cap, I also didn't like the brightness. It especially felt 'off' when sun was directly to grass. Tha and the combination of light walls made the strain to the eyes quite obvious. I think I'm using default everything (textures, brightness, etc), so maybe there's a gap there?
There is a bug on the wall. Ice, next to the ramp on the blue side (the ramp to grass).
There is a bug on the high base or whatever. Where there is a gap on the wall. You can jump there and can get stuck.
I can provide ss's if you don't get what I mean.
There is a bug with some of the spawns - facing walls.
The gap on the base wall - can fall into that and get stuck.
All those models you added were a nice touch, except for the rope thingie, didn't quite get that :D
Bases. Base is huge, good visibility, lots of entrances. But at the same time the flag looks quite 'random'. If you manage to take the flag, you can take a fast exit to ice, up the rope, or to mid. If the enemy was camping and you succeed, then I think you get an easy capture. But I have a feeling most of the time it gets down to aggresive team constantly being killed by the base camper, because it's quite simple to defend the flag. But this is all just a guess, need to play on it to suggest how the flag should be located.
I don't like the 'jumppad barrel'.
Since the routes in this map aren't really super-connected it is easy to reach enemy base without even seeing the enemy once. It's fine to happen sometimes, but this makes this map more of a racing map - a contest who can capture the most flags. Can't say for certain that this is the case, but it sure looks like it. Of course, this doesn't look as bad as tatras/prolandr or something
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Thanks, that's really useful feedback.
Yeah, on having another look at the map, I totally agree. It's just too bright. I will definitely change that.
I for one didn't like the ice jump up the ramp through some tiny cap
Is it specifically the jump through the gap that you don't like?, or the ice itself? Maybe low would be better without ice? (with some changes)
There is a bug on the wall. Ice, next to the ramp on the blue side (the ramp to grass).
There is a bug on the high base or whatever. Where there is a gap on the wall. You can jump there and can get stuck.
I can provide ss's if you don't get what I mean.
There is a bug with some of the spawns - facing walls.
The gap on the base wall - can fall into that and get stuck.
Yep, managed to find all of them, so they will all be corrected.
All those models you added were a nice touch, except for the rope thingie, didn't quite get that
Thanks and me neither, I just thought the model was quite nice and seeing as I've used the texture elsewhere, I just added the model in for the hell of it :)
Bases. Base is huge, good visibility, lots of entrances. But at the same time the flag looks quite 'random'. If you manage to take the flag, you can take a fast exit to ice, up the rope, or to mid. If the enemy was camping and you succeed, then I think you get an easy capture. But I have a feeling most of the time it gets down to aggresive team constantly being killed by the base camper, because it's quite simple to defend the flag. But this is all just a guess, need to play on it to suggest how the flag should be located.
I don't like the 'jumppad barrel'.
Since the routes in this map aren't really super-connected it is easy to reach enemy base without even seeing the enemy once. It's fine to happen sometimes, but this makes this map more of a racing map - a contest who can capture the most flags. Can't say for certain that this is the case, but it sure looks like it. Of course, this doesn't look as bad as tatras/prolandr or something
As you say, capping is quite quick and that's not always a good thing and the 'campability' of the map isnt either. I've got a couple of changes in mind to hopefully improve gameplay, so I'll see what I can make for b3 and as for the 'jumppad barrel' with these changes in mind, that will be going :)
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If you run up on the edge, you can see through the map in some places, and you can get stuck here (screenshot). If you want to make these areas accessible, you need to account for these types of things. If not, you should use clip brushes to keep people from getting up there.