Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: payl on February 20, 2012, 10:15:24 AM
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Yesterday i talked with jitspoe about approving PAC, he told he have nothing against it. Generally saying it is up to tournament organisators if they want to use PAC or not. If you want PAC to be used on your tournament, feel free to send me PM about it. So for now i want to officially notice that PAC is ready. Therefore...
Payl Anti Cheat 0.9.2
What are requirements for PAC?
-Windows XP,Vista or Seven (XP SP3 only is supported, but might run on all versions).
-hardware DEP supported also by OS (should be okay on all new computers) - if you have problems with PAC saying that it haven't detected DEP, contact me. Be sure to give me computer informations.
-Internet connection (0.5Mib is okay i think).
-Some free space on disc where PAC and paintball is installed (5mb for PAC and 10mb for paintball should be okay).
-No Cheats, rootkits or hacks (defined below).
-Paintball with build defined by organisators.
Matching with PAC
1.Download PAC, unpack if needed and run it
2.Fill in paintball directory (if isn't proper one), your name (dplogin name), Dplogin ID (you can see it in your dplogin profile), and matchcode. Matchcode should be provided before tournament start, and you should share it only with your team.
3.Make sure that you have no cheats active, no other copies of paintball running and your antivirus won't threat PAC as virus/dangerous program. Then tick agreement.
4.Click Start and paintball should run.
5.Check on PAC informations if everything gone ok. If it's okay Status should be as following: PAC installed successfully, you might start gaming.
6.Enter match server with PAC-loaded paintball.
7.When you are done, close paintball.
8.PAC should say "PAC ended communication". You might then turn off PAC window. If it doesn't show up, wait a while and you might get "PAC client disconnected." - if it's green, it should also be okay.
9.Wait for results :P Be sure that you don't delete actest.txt file that was generated during match (in paintball directory). It might be needed to verify informations (And yes, it's encrypted, so don't think that modifying it will result in no detection).
How to not get banned by PAC?
Generally, any legit user, shouldn't have problems, but due to different definition of cheating in Paintball builtin anticheat, i should redefine it for PAC, and also define some additional informations:
-Cheat is modification (of any kind) that gives you advantage over other players, and isn't allowed by it's creator (Jitspoe).
-Rootkit is any system that tries to hide cheat or any other thing that modify paintball or PAC behavior.
-Hack is program that try to prevent PAC from working, modify PAC behavior or monitor PAC activity (activity doesn't include tools provided with original OS [So doesn't include mods]). So this include debuggers, packet sniffers or any other kind of stuff like that.
If cheat, rootkit or hack will be found by PAC active while playing tournament, you might get reported to me. Then i will review it, and if i will think this might be due to cheat, hack or rootkit, i'll contact Jitspoe or any committee member. Also i might contact you to give me some informations (or files), to be sure that it's unallowed by PAC. If you reject to share those informations or i will be sure that you cheated OR you were trying to fool me/PAC other way then you might get:
-Banned from PAC login system (so you won't be able to use PAC again).
-Kicked out from tournament that you were in OR your whole team might get kicked.
-Banned from Paintball (this is up to Jitspoe and/or committee - i'll provide needed logs).
So where's download?
I don't provide download, because i don't need anyone trying to crack PAC. Download will be provided for teams playing in PAC protected tournaments. Also i might give it to tournament players before they have to use, so they can see if everything is working okay.
What about Linux users or computers that don't have DEP or other requirement?
They should think about moving to PC that support PAC.
If it's impossible they should contact me and/or tournament organisators for possible workarounds.
What about antivirus software?
Generally antiviruses shouldn't detect anything suspicious in PAC, but if it does warn in any way, be sure that it won't prevent PAC from working during match (or modify PAC environment). You might need to disable antivirus or even delete it (i wasn't creating it, that isn't my fault it's so stupid). Also you might tell creators of this antivirus they should stop marking everything other than helloworld as virus.
*I reserve right to modify PAC rules at any moment, without any warning.
*If moderators think it fit more to development, feel free to move it.
Edit: Added image for GUI.
Questions? Problems? Ask below
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Nobody is going to be banned solely basing on your detection. Just sayin'.
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Nobody is going to be banned solely basing on your detection. Just sayin'.
You'll never know. I don't expect anyone to try to cheat with PAC, but well, might happen.
Jitspoe saw parts of PAC source, so i think that those should be reliable for him. But of course, i don't expect to anyone get globally banned because of just PAC detection. But this might also help Jitspoe improving his anticheat, early detection of cheat being developed etc.
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Biggest problems:
- only one paintball installation allowed
- no Linux version (wtf?)
- some antivirus programs will definitely block it. Do you really expect people to turn off their virus protection ?
I don't think PAC will be used until these issues are fixed. At least I won't use it / won't be able to use it.
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Biggest problems:
1.only one paintball installation allowed
2.no Linux version (wtf?)
3.some antivirus programs will definitely block it. Do you really expect people to turn off their virus protection ?
I don't think PAC will be used until these issues are fixed. At least I won't use it / won't be able to use it.
1.You cannot run multiple instances at same time. Multiple installations are allowed, but you might need to change proposed path.
2.Yeah, no linux version. Linux is totally different, And PAC rely on many tricks used (this is also why some antiviruses might report it as a cheat).
3.Already seen some antiviruses blocking it. For now i know that Avast doesn't block it. Well, if your antivirus doesn't support exceptions, it's not my fault. Being just scared about virus everywhere is stupid... Anyway i might provide VirusTotal scan result if you are unsure (already tested it before, some antiviruses reported as suspicious).
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3.Make sure that you have no cheats active, no other copies of paintball
You should change that sentence then, it really sounded like you couldn't use PAC when you have multiple installations.
If you want PAC to be used in tournaments, a Linux version will be necessary. Excluding Linux users from tournaments (or just telling them to use Windows) is complete nonsense.
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You should change that sentence then, it really sounded like you couldn't use PAC when you have multiple installations.
If you want PAC to be used in tournaments, a Linux version will be necessary. Excluding Linux users from tournaments (or just telling them to use Windows) is complete nonsense.
Yeah, Fixed.
I don't plan to make Linux version for now. Someone who is better at linux might do it anyway (because i have no experience nor knowledge how to make good anticheat there).
And yes, i forgot that Linux users are just too good to use Windows even if that isn't big problem. So i personally propose just dropping linux version support. This is my opinion on that matter.
I bet no one from matching scene use linux and have no windows they can use for match. So i bet that won't be bigger problem.
Also, this was discussed before. I don't think that we have to discuss about it again. I already told you that i don't plan PAC4linux for now. This isn't probably going to change in future.
So what i propose? Something like:
1.You use linux? Bad, get windows
2.Can't get windows? Use other computer with windows then?
3.Don't have computer with windows? Then wow, you must be living in such a poor country as Poland have to publish demo (for example, this will be up to tourney organisators).
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3.Already seen some antiviruses blocking it. For now i know that Avast doesn't block it. Well, if your antivirus doesn't support exceptions, it's not my fault.
Have anti-virus software, be banned from DP2.
Like seriously Payl, how can you expect anyone to use a software that requires to turn off your anti-virus software?!
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I have ran quite a few tournaments in the past and I can not remember a single time something like this would have been needed. Sorry brother.
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Like seriously Payl, how can you expect anyone to use a software that requires to turn off your anti-virus software?!
Yeah, never turn your antivirus off, this is gonna kill you... Amen.
There are smart antiviruses that doesn't scream about it, and there are stupid antiviruses that block for trying to use anything other than 'writeln'.
I have ran quite a few tournaments in the past and I can not remember a single time something like this would have been needed. Sorry brother.
Isn't needed doesn't mean isn't helpful. I personally think that would be useful, especially in paid contests. If everyone think that jitspoe anticheat give any protection against cheats... okok, but you might be surprised... Maybe i'll write some easy PoC cheat which is undetectable by pball anticheat (while PAC detect it easily)... We will see in future.
I wrote PAC because i'm scared how jitspoe anticheat is awful (as far as i know), well doesn't look like anyone other think same, but well, i already got alternative anyway.
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Which data will it send/receive to/from your server?
Can you post a demo log file?
What happens if something got detected?
You wrote that i'm not allowed to have debuggers and packet sniffers on my pc. Do you mean all or some special programs? What about microsoft visual c++, ethereal, winbspc?
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1.Which data will it send/receive to/from your server?
2.Can you post a demo log file?
3.What happens if something got detected?
4.You wrote that i'm not allowed to have debuggers and packet sniffers on my pc. Do you mean all or some special programs? What about microsoft visual c++, ethereal, winbspc?
1.Send: Logs, version etc.
Receive: Result of operation, update if needed, address of logserver (if i want to use faster server because of my one is free=slow).
2.I think i can...
<SEND TIME == PAC VER == IP>
null==code==PAC v.0.7.4
null==code==SafeHash hash1 ::: hash2
null==code==Win 6.1
Check begin.
send_system==code== A=B - Kernel Panic!
<NEXT SEND TIME == PAC VER == IP>
and so on...
This is generally how it looks, i removed hash which follow every line.
SafeHash is my version of HardwareID.
3.It's only send to logserver, where i can take look and determine if something is wrong (i'll probably use applications that will look for anomalies and i'll next review those stranger reports).
4.You are allowed to have those, you aren't allowed to run them while PAC is active. Generally IDE's aren't detected as anything, while debuggers they use might be detected, so at best don't debug while PAC is running. Anyway, i won't threat running debuggers really seriously, until those aren't trying to debug PAC. Special caution is needed with SoftICE, because it's driver mode debugger and as far as i know it is allways active, so PAC might report it.
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Just wondering, can we test your software anywhere or do we have to wait for some official tournament that wants to follow your rules?
I do not organize tournaments myself, but I can imagine no-one will try a tournament with PAC activated unless it has been tested intensively.
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Just wondering, can we test your software anywhere or do we have to wait for some official tournament that wants to follow your rules?
I do not organize tournaments myself, but I can imagine no-one will try a tournament with PAC activated unless it has been tested intensively.
For now there aren't any possibilities to test PAC for you, but i'm open for ideas. Generally speaking, obvious problem for now, is that when you all download PAC i have mass of logs, and you nor me know which log say what.
For now i'm sure when i'll make final version for some tournament, i'll first send it to Jitspoe.
There are also some people that i already proposed to test PAC, some of them agreed, so they know how it looks for user. I also checked their logs for false positives, and made minor fixes to detection.
I think i'll make another closed test soon, so if you hang on IRC you might get chosen...
Anyway, pvtjimmy, you said you won't disable your antivirus, and your antivirus complained last time probably because of dll injection. This is basic phase of loading PAC into paintball (so 4/5 risk scale lol). I recommend switching to antivirus which doesn't fool you that dll injection is serious danger.
(added) but i don't get why you post about letting people test it, while you yourself refused to test it.
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For now there aren't any possibilities to test PAC for you, but i'm open for ideas. Generally speaking, obvious problem for now, is that when you all download PAC i have mass of logs, and you nor me know which log say what.
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Anyway, pvtjimmy, you said you won't disable your antivirus, and your antivirus complained last time probably because of dll injection. This is basic phase of loading PAC into paintball (so 4/5 risk scale lol). I recommend switching to antivirus which doesn't fool you that dll injection is serious danger.
(added) but i don't get why you post about letting people test it, while you yourself refused to test it.
Sorry to say, but this is reverse logic to me. How are we supposed to give you feedback on something we can not see or test? As I have nothing better to say, I'd suggest you work on the logs. This seems to be causing problems to you and I hope that if you succeed to improve your detections, more people will use it.
As for the last accusation you make, I can only say that you obviously misunderstood me. At the time you asked me for feedback, you were still in a testing phase to see if stuff works. With my feedback that my anti-virus software does not allow PAC to run, I hoped you would work on this. Now you are suggesting to disable my current anti-virus software, or installing some other. I think this is rather avoiding a problem than actually offering a solution and I can not support this attitude.
Anyway, my offer to help still stands. However, I hope that you will actually work on the feedback you get, and won't just offer alternatives to avoid the existing problems.
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Sorry to say, but this is reverse logic to me. How are we supposed to give you feedback on something we can not see or test? As I have nothing better to say, I'd suggest you work on the logs. This seems to be causing problems to you and I hope that if you succeed to improve your detections, more people will use it.
I personally think that logs are working fine, but PAC isn't made for being able to handle so many clients overall. So publishing it for free tests would be bad choice i think. This is simply not what PAC is designed for (for now, because i gone to making it into tournament client). I might do testing with some people which are reliable, and thats what i'm doing generally. But i don't like idea with publishing download, as this would cause some problems. But i can understand that everyone want to see how it looks. I'll think about publishing some of next major updates (but this might take some time, because my TODO list is long and i have heavy week in school).
As for the last accusation you make, I can only say that you obviously misunderstood me. At the time you asked me for feedback, you were still in a testing phase to see if stuff works. With my feedback that my anti-virus software does not allow PAC to run, I hoped you would work on this. Now you are suggesting to disable my current anti-virus software, or installing some other. I think this is rather avoiding a problem than actually offering a solution and I can not support this attitude.
There isn't anything i can do about it in fact. There are even antiviruses that call jitspoe anticheat a virus, while i'm trying to tell all of you, that jitspoe anticheat isn't really good. It only use basic methods of checking, i go further and included many tricks to make hackers surprised. That seems to also surprise antiviruses. I was in fact kind of shocked that your antivirus blocked PAC just because it tried to inject dll into firstly created process. I have no idea, what can i do. Injecting dll is most obvious way, and i thought like "i don't want to do anything suspicious, so let's use basic methods" - and bam, your antivirus came... I can use some more tricky ways, but i think that if i would design antivirus, i would prevent suspicious method, not those well known and widely used. But well, those antivirus companies are trying to tell that they know better, nothing i can do about it.
Anyway, my offer to help still stands. However, I hope that you will actually work on the feedback you get, and won't just offer alternatives to avoid the existing problems.
I can only offer alternatives to overreacting antivirus software, nothing other i can do. I went for non-modifying method of installing PAC, there isn't anything better as far as i see. And well, stupid antiviruses gonna stay stupid and block me again for something stupid. It's better to remove those IMO btw. If you have Se7en or Vista, i think Avast is enough (at least for me it is). But it's not like i'm forcing you to change antivirus, but well, PAC won't support antiviruses that prevent dll injection in near future. Maybe if it will come out that more antiviruses block it, i'll search for other solution. But again, those antiviruses are stupid.
Anway i'm not sure if i still want your help. At first you are trying to help me, and next you trying to troll me. I don't see what's your point. You have to choose if you are trying to help me, being neutral or trying to stop me from doing it. Decide, and follow your decision. I don't like people which are at first nice and then rude and then nice again.
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Does it have a function to save a log file with everything it send, receive and show as status on the client pc? If not, this is a feature vote for it (don't need to be enabled by default) :P
There are even antiviruses that call jitspoe anticheat a virus, while i'm trying to tell all of you, that jitspoe anticheat isn't really good.
I don't think that jitspoe can't make a better anti-cheat as it is now. I think he has the same problem with antiviruses like you. If he make the detection more intensive, the game may be blocked by a virus scanner. That's the worst thing that can happen. If it's a bug in the antivirus or not doesn't matter. The people talk about a virus in paintball. That's the end of this game. So, for public games / downloads it's better to have a very high compatibility to antiviruses as have a perfect cheat detection.
You have to choose if you are trying to help me, being neutral or trying to stop me from doing it.
So "neutral" is allowed now :)
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Does it have a function to save a log file with everything it send, receive and show as status on the client pc? If not, this is a feature vote for it (don't need to be enabled by default) :P
For status - no/yes. It saves data that might let me guess what showed up on InjEnv client. But i'm unable to save everything, or i might add that functionality in InjEnv, this is good solution i think.
For receive - no. It's handled by Injector, Injector doesn't provide any logs. And i don't think it's needed, eventual problems with login/authorization are reported with popup message by InjEnv client.
For send - yes. it's encrypted log that is allways active (actest.txt). PAC make this log itself, it contain some more advanced output than online log (only for debugging purpose - and i don't think that i'll give uncrypting utility to anyone).
Well, option to disable might be hard to do, as PAC start this log even before it connect to InjEnv controller. But in some end versions i might add option to disable it.
Terrorist, if you are worried about privacy, i can say there isn't anything more fancy than some paths to files, hashes, number of something or eventually like 20 bytes from memory (no, not your credit card number). But i can't provide you logs, those contain informations what it found all over your computer, and therefore shows what PAC scan what doesn't. Superman seen like 10 messages of earlier version and he already know way too much :P
I don't think that jitspoe can't make a better anti-cheat as it is now. I think he has the same problem with antiviruses like you. If he make the detection more intensive, the game may be blocked by a virus scanner. That's the worst thing that can happen. If it's a bug in the antivirus or not doesn't matter. The people talk about a virus in paintball. That's the end of this game. So, for public games / downloads it's better to have a very high compatibility to antiviruses as have a perfect cheat detection.
Well, while jitspoe wouldn't have to use dll injector, this is still partialy true. Also jitspoe provide Linux anticheat, while PAC depend on Windows features.
So "neutral" is allowed now :)
It was allways allowed, if you stay quiet. But some people speak on almost every thread. So i'm not sure if it's possible for everyone to stay neutral.
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I have a feeling that it's the encryption, not the injection, causing the antivirus false positives. I had similar problems and just gave up on it.
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Does this program check if you're using the right name? Or can I just use Gamabunta's name and use ma hacks?
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Wait, if you're worried about distributing it to people now because they'll 'crack' it, I'm sure once someone has it in one of these PAC protected tournaments they'll distribute it around for people who want to test it...
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But the very first tournament will be cheat free. Totally worth it.
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I have a feeling that it's the encryption, not the injection, causing the antivirus false positives. I had similar problems and just gave up on it.
In my case, it was running with no problem and just when i was trying to inject dll, it reported InjEnv as virus, so i think that injection is reason. I don't think that antivirus will detect anything in PAC because it's obfuscated so only problem might be antiviruses saying that it's obfuscated.
Does this program check if you're using the right name? Or can I just use Gamabunta's name and use ma hacks?
Entering fake name will not just make PAC tell you that enter incorrect name but you will be detected after match. Also entering wrong name is poor idea, because it still generate your HardwareID and your IP so you would be banned even if you spoof your name. I threat name like just help to know who it is.
Wait, if you're worried about distributing it to people now because they'll 'crack' it, I'm sure once someone has it in one of these PAC protected tournaments they'll distribute it around for people who want to test it...
If someone will try to do something unallowed with PAC i might ban him. And i'll allow people from tournament to see it before they have to use it. Also, im not that really scared because of cracking, just it isn't finished for now, and miss some procedures to make sure everything is inside PAC. That's why i don't publish it. But this might take some time, because PAC is still under heavy development. Then why i post topic about it? Because if there's incoming tourney i might disable those features and let it be safe anyway.
But the very first tournament will be cheat free. Totally worth it.
I don't understand you, blaa. You first say that it isn't needed and then you say that is good...
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He wasn't saying it was good...
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He wasn't saying it was good...
Totally worth it.
I mean he say it's worth effort i put on it (=good ^.^ ) while he said before that he doesn't see point of creating it.
I know that's really important matter Rick, but really, i don't think that 'interesting posts' are needed...
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I mean he say it's worth effort i put on it (=good ^.^ )
No, he didn't.
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No, he didn't.
You already told me that on IRC, so i don't think that posting it here is needed.
Anyway, doesn't really matter what blaa said lol, this isn't important or sth... if you guys were so helpful with development lol.
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If someone will try to do something unallowed with PAC i might ban him. And i'll allow people from tournament to see it before they have to use it. Also, im not that really scared because of cracking, just it isn't finished for now, and miss some procedures to make sure everything is inside PAC. That's why i don't publish it. But this might take some time, because PAC is still under heavy development. Then why i post topic about it? Because if there's incoming tourney i might disable those features and let it be safe anyway.
Jitspoes game, you can't ban them. Anyway, I don't get what you're going on about disabling features and so on, I just think about posting it, there's no point holding onto it, because someone could start a tourney right now as a joke, get the PAC and start testing or 'cracking' it. IMO it'd be better if this was serverside, then you'd have more of a chance controlling who has it if you're that worried about it.
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Jitspoes game, you can't ban them. Anyway, I don't get what you're going on about disabling features and so on, I just think about posting it, there's no point holding onto it, because someone could start a tourney right now as a joke, get the PAC and start testing or 'cracking' it. IMO it'd be better if this was serverside, then you'd have more of a chance controlling who has it if you're that worried about it.
I can ban them from PAC.
I might disable some features that aren't done for now (because still under development). PAC is still under heavy development (i develop it most of my coding time), so for now there are some features that are under testing or bug fixing.
I don't think if anyone want PAC, he would rather talk to me than making fake tournament.
I'm worried because with first public release i'll lose chance to fix anything because if hackers will hack v.1 then hacking v.2 will become easier. So i want to be sure that all major features are done before i release it in any form.
And if you don't know, i cannot simply tick 'serverside' to make it serverside, i would have to recode it totally (also serverside is bad because can't detect for example wallhack).
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So, as many of you wanted test of PAC, here it is.
I think i'll provide this test for few days and then unallow you again from connecting because this is still TEST, so don't blame me for some issues with it. Also protection isn't finished, i still work on some features, so it might have some bugs.
Matchcode is: PUBTEST26
This matchcode should work for few days, after it i'll probably block this test from usage.
I don't plan to report/ban anyone if i detect cheats during this test. So feel free to use some cheats on it if you want so. PAC might block it, but even if it isn't blocked it still might be detected, so feel free to contact me if you think that it wasn't detected. Any help in detection is welcome.
However, don't try to crack PAC, i'll react on those tries as you were trying to take PAC down, so i might ban you then.
Be sure to run this ONLY with build 35.
If you have problems launching PAC, look on first post, and if it won't resolve your issue, post here.
(Ah yes i know that matchcode doesn't fit edit, i'll fix it later).
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Good job on fixing the anti-virus trouble. This time I "only" got a message from my firewall.
When I closed DP2 and tried to close PAC using the red cross, it said "please close PAC first", even though I had already closed DP2. You might want to look at this.
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Good job on fixing the anti-virus trouble. This time I "only" got a message from my firewall.
Haven't did anything... Just for now it download PAC.dll from server, if that change anything lol.
When I closed DP2 and tried to close PAC using the red cross, it said "please close PAC first", even though I had already closed DP2. You might want to look at this.
This is known issue, after while it should say PAC client disconnected. As this isn't crash/major issue i'm gonna work on it later. But thanks for report.
Btw. It looks like you just runned PAC and closed it without doing much (like connecting anywhere). Is this true or maybe PAC failed?
Ah and also, as it's test, you don't need to enter dplogin :-] . Leaving it 0 is fine.
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I didn't have much time. To be honest I just wanted to check if my anti-virus software would still block it and than closed it again. I'll have a closer look when I'm home from work tomorrow.
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I have little request to Viciouz and Prozajik. PAC found on your computers opengl hack, which is probably stupid driver/etc.
Could you guys post what GPU you use and what version of drivers? Thanks.
Also, requesting more people to test because i want to find more false positives and have more feedback.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24526.0;attach=9156
(Be sure to read all my posts in this topic, those are needed to run PAC correctly)
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GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 260M
Driver: 27.7.2009 - 8.15.11.8647
System: Windows 7 64-bit
If you need i can support you with the driver instalation, but the dell.com driver service is currently off and the driver itself has about 100MB. I will post a link as soon as dell.com is back
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GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 260M
Driver: 27.7.2009 - 8.15.11.8647
System: Windows 7 64-bit
I have GeForce too, strange.
If you need i can support you with the driver instalation, but the dell.com driver service is currently off and the driver itself has about 100MB. I will post a link as soon as dell.com is back
I don't need drivers download, i thought that you use ATI drivers so those generate problems.
Also, i'll see maybe this will occur at my PC. This seems to be rare issue that only shows during longer play. Maybe this is even paintball behavior i forgot to add... I'll make deeper research and contact you again if i'll need something.
Thanks for help.
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xfx radeon 6850, whatever the latest catalyst drivers are.
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Just caused a crash. I directed PAC to a DP2 folder with hacks installed and used a different match code as the one you gave us. At the moment I started the game my anti-virus software reported it being a threat (you still might want to fix this...). Even though I accepted the exception PAC gave me some warning that PAC could not connect to the server and DP2 crashed.
I'm not sure what exactly caused the crash (anti-virus) or the wrong match code. Also, I'm quite curious to know what you need this match code for. If a wrong match code indeed causes a crash I suggest you to look for a solution to fix this.
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Maybe you should just install Microsoft Security Essentials instead of your 60 Euro Symantec Virenschutz.
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Just caused a crash. I directed PAC to a DP2 folder with hacks installed and used a different match code as the one you gave us. At the moment I started the game my anti-virus software reported it being a threat (you still might want to fix this...). Even though I accepted the exception PAC gave me some warning that PAC could not connect to the server and DP2 crashed.
Can't do anything with antivirus, as this also seems random for me if it detect it or not... i don't see reason to threat PAC like virus, if your antivirus prevent me from dll injection, i would have to make cracked paintball that load PAC or use some kind of wrapper, and then PAC will threat that as cheat...
I'm not sure what exactly caused the crash (anti-virus) or the wrong match code. Also, I'm quite curious to know what you need this match code for. If a wrong match code indeed causes a crash I suggest you to look for a solution to fix this.
Wrong matchcode shouldn't make crash, this might be bug. But entering bad matchcode will result in errors, this is desired to do so. Matchcode is to sort logs when they are recorded, so i don't have everything in same place. Those really make looking for specific log easier and also gives additional protection against people trying to fool PAC.
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I have GeForce too, strange.
I don't need drivers download, i thought that you use ATI drivers so those generate problems.
Also, i'll see maybe this will occur at my PC. This seems to be rare issue that only shows during longer play. Maybe this is even paintball behavior i forgot to add... I'll make deeper research and contact you again if i'll need something.
Thanks for help.
Can't it be the old version of driver? Maybe outdated .dll which looks too different than the current ones? Notice that the driver is from 2009. I have to use this outdated one, otherwise i get blue screen after some time of playing. By the way, I wasnt playing long just 5-15 minutes.
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Can't it be the old version of driver? Maybe outdated .dll which looks too different than the current ones? Notice that the driver is from 2009. I have to use this outdated one, otherwise i get blue screen after some time of playing. By the way, I wasnt playing long just 5-15 minutes.
No, it isn't old driver. I played longer than my usual tests and it also showed me that warning. Probably paintball in few situations switch it. I'll later on look what exactly it is, and make patch to prevent this false-positive. Also this might be some other sys that switch it, but yeah, deeper look will show what is going on.
Thanks for help once more :-]
Anyway, it's strange that you get BSOD's with new drivers, maybe you should check out newest :-] . But i can understand your pain, same situation i had with my old PC and ATI Radeon 9500 if i remember correctly. Generally other drivers were needed for other tasks :D +funny driver problems.
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I have little request to Viciouz and Prozajik. PAC found on your computers opengl hack, which is probably stupid driver/etc.
Could you guys post what GPU you use and what version of drivers? Thanks.
This is a problem. It looks like there may be a conflict between the built in cheat detection and PAC. I would advise against further testing on public servers until this gets fixed.
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This is a problem. It looks like there may be a conflict between the built in cheat detection and PAC. I would advise against further testing on public servers until this gets fixed.
In fact, i was unable to reproduce this on my local server. For me this bug occur only at public for now. Bug itself isn't big, it might prevent really rarely (2-5 times during 20min), and if we divide it by count of frames, we get less than 1%.
But of course, i'll try to provide patch today.
Also, it doesn't seem like this bug make any graphical artifacts.
EDIT: I found problem, temporarily patch is already released, InjEnv will automatically download new update when running. Later on i'll rework this system a little bit.
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Anyway, it's strange that you get BSOD's with new drivers, maybe you should check out newest :-] . But i can understand your pain, same situation i had with my old PC and ATI Radeon 9500 if i remember correctly. Generally other drivers were needed for other tasks :D +funny driver problems.
I have been updating drivers every half a year and tried paintball with it still nothing :D. I also tried beta drivers but this driver from 2009 is the onyl one which works withou blue screen.
I think my "mobile" type of graphic card causes it, but i dont know for sure. Still its pretty anoying because this driver doesnt have dx11 (or 12 or whichever is the latest) so if I want to play game which requires the newts dx drivers i have to update my drivers play the game then downgrade back to the old drivers :D. Tho I am glad at least i figured out how to play pb withou crashes :P.
Anyway, your last post says that you already patched the problem? If so I am gonna try it again as soon as I have some time for pb
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Anyway, your last post says that you already patched the problem? If so I am gonna try it again as soon as I have some time for pb
Yeah, it's patched, but it's poor patch for now, i'll probably later on change method that i detect if call is valid... And testers are allways welcome!
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Just to not make the other thread off topic...
Ad: Do you know that PAC detect all kind of speedhacking?
That's fair enough that it does, but for the time being, leave it for testing/tournament purposes. If it gets implemented into the real game, people aren't going to want to run 2 things just to play it (or however it works), it'd have to be like the current detection system before it gets used in public servers.
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That's fair enough that it does, but for the time being, leave it for testing/tournament purposes. If it gets implemented into the real game, people aren't going to want to run 2 things just to play it (or however it works), it'd have to be like the current detection system before it gets used in public servers.
You guys are killing me. I explained it like 10 times that IT IS POSSIBLE IF JITSPOE HELP ME WITH THAT. But you doesn't seem to listen? How many times i can explain that? This was main plan to use PAC but as i got no help from jitspoe i decided to make it like it is now. UNDERSTOOD? THX.
[ragequit] X.x
I looked on all posts in this topics, haven't found that, hm. Then sorry for flame, but i feel like this was answered at least 5 times... Anyway, answer is simple: PAC is designed to be like this, but as Jitspoe doesn't help me this is how its work for now.
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How are different legal modifications affecting pac? For example the viciouz's 'now playing' mp3 script?
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How are different legal modifications affecting pac? For example the viciouz's 'now playing' mp3 script?
Any scripts don't make impact on PAC as long as they doesn't modify way display/connection/gameplay work. So generally anything there is allowed, until it doesn't modify code or something like that (i don't think that is even possible with scripts).
For now scripts doesn't hook PAC warning, but in future i might go for detection of some scripts that tournament organisators don't want (i.e. doublejump script).
So generally: PAC doesn't restrict scripts/textures you use for now, but this may change in future if tournament organisators want so. PAC is made to make games fair, but for now i don't want to be too restrictive, so i don't mind sound/texture changing, but if you(=community) want this to be detected, no problem. This can be used to make tournaments more restrictive in media used during it.
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So generally: PAC doesn't restrict scripts/textures you use for now
so people can material wallhack using PAC. good to know.
Jitspoes cheat detection +1
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so people can material wallhack using PAC. good to know.
Tell me how do i detect if texture is legit or cheated. I thought about list of hashes with legit textures, but i found i'm not able to collect enough of those to prevent many false positives.
Jitspoes cheat detection +1
If jitspoes anticheat would be better in all cases than PAC, then my PoC wallhack wouldn't be undetected. And PAC is enchanting anticheat systems, does not prevent jitspoe anticheat from working and/or detecting cheats. I didn't fell like repeating all Jitspoe methods, instead PAC monitors Jitspoes anticheat for malfunctions.
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PAC monitors Jitspoes anticheat for malfunctions.
There is no point of it then. When has there been a malfunction?
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There is no point of it then. When has there been a malfunction?
Hacker might modify Jitspoes anticheat code (as it got very easy obfuscation), right?
I see you got no clue how all process works.
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Tell me how do i detect if texture is legit or cheated.
Ever hear about anyone saying they got a modded content warning? oh thats right because jitspoe can tell when you have changed a texture. Oh thats right jitspoe can take remote screen shots. Oh thats right maybe you should give jitspoe you PoC wallhack so he can add it to his own cheat detection. Would be more helpful than your PAC.
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Ever hear about anyone saying they got a modded content warning?
Have you reversed jitspoe anticheat and other modules? I don't think so. However i can't share jitspoes anticheat internals.
oh thats right because jitspoe can tell when you have changed a texture.
1.Why do i need to double jitspoes anticheat functionality?
2.Have you RE jitspoe anticheat or created it that you know how it works?
Oh thats right jitspoe can take remote screen shots.
Oh right, so should i do same?
Maybe i should just copy Jitspoe anticheat and rename it to 'pac.dll'? If i UPX it nobody would notice lol.
Oh thats right maybe you should give jitspoe you PoC wallhack so he can add it to his own cheat detection.
I won't because of way he threats me with PAC.
Would be more helpful than your PAC.
Jitspoe doesn't care about PAC and/or other subworks i have done related to that. Maybe it would be more helpful, but i have other priorities than giving everything I've done to jitspoe with hope that he will even open my source and take a overall look. If he isn't interested in that, then why should i share that with him.
Foxhound, you should already know that Jitspoe doesn't trust anyone so i'm not able to do anything for paintball most obvious way.
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You havent defended your point on any of those quotes. All of your comebacks are just belittling people and use fancy geek words to make yourself look smart. Asking us if we understand stupid things is a waste of time.
And yes Jitspoes is better, so yeah you should take some things from him if you want yours to be better. And i don't need to know how his works. I know for a fact if you have modded content you get a warning. That's a no brainer. Again, you haven't defended anything in your post.
why do you go on and on about it if you know anything related to getting PAC implemented is futile. Just give it up.
Maybe the fact that you openly admit that you have hacks that beat his system really pisses him off. Flaunting and taunting isn't helping you at all.
@jitspoe, he's admitted to having hacks. Please ban him from game and forums. Thx
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x185/FOXHOUND12/Paylcheats-2.png in case he edits his threads.
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You havent defended your point on any of those quotes.
Sure i haven't. To be honest i don't care about your opinion. You can't understand fact that i have much more knowledge than you have and you keep on posting your mistaken opinions. It's even worse that i can't describe why you are wrong cuz of security, so you start to tell me that "you haven't defended your point". Well, that's why i don't care about your opinion. You can't understand fact that there are things that i CAN'T tell. You follow simple manner: Jitspoe always say truth, Jitspoe is never wrong, Jitspoe knows everything. Payl always lies, Payl is never correct, Payl knows nothing.
Look at it this way:
Made by Payl: RE of jitspoe anticheat, PAC, Wallhack.
Made by Foxhound: Nothing
Does this really need a comment about your and mine knowledge?
And yes Jitspoes is better, so yeah you should take some things from him if you want yours to be better.
Now you admit to know both mines and his internals. Have you reversed mine anticheat?
And i don't need to know how his works. I know for a fact if you have modded content you get a warning. That's a no brainer.
I don't really care about opinion of people that only guess and have some minor knowledge. I've made my own anticheat and reverse engineered Jitspoes so don't argue with me till you get some knowledge, please. And sorry, but i can't share my knowledge as it's important for Jitspoes and mine anticheat security. You have to understand that.
why do you go on and on about it if you know anything related is futile. just give it up then.
Go on with what. Nah, i don't even care, no need to answer.
Maybe the fact that you openly admit that you have hacks that beat his system really pisses him off.
Having cheats isn't bad after all till you don't use them versus players. Is that bad that i develop cheat that will test PAC security? Yes, sure, it's bad, because meanwhile i managed to bypass Jitspoes anticheat! (This is impossible because Jitspoe=God 4 u).
Flaunting and taunting isn't helping you at all.
Do i flaunt and taunt? Let it be.
I see Foxfound rather than posting something with a point, you start to flame me. Stop, otherwise i won't response. You are wasting my time with your useless posts.
@jitspoe, he's admitted to having hacks. Please ban him from game and forums. Thx
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x185/FOXHOUND12/Paylcheats-2.png in case he edits his threads.
Cheating is allowed if you won't use it online. Jitspoe found me using speedhack on my server while ago (during PAC testing), he even told that publicly, you can search.
You are so serious that you become funny.
O' look i found it:
[@Payl] such as what's used on what you were testing on your private server (yes, that was detected)
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Do i flaunt and taunt?
Made by Payl: RE of jitspoe anticheat, PAC, Wallhack.
Made by Foxhound: Nothing
Does this really need a comment about your and mine knowledge?
Go on with what. Nah, i don't even care, no need to answer.
All im saying is, you say every time that jitspoe doesn't want to use your PAC, so go bring it else where. The dp community is tired of this.
i see prozajik is trying to help, and jitspoe cautions you. This is fair and well but if you honestly dont believe jitspoe will use your design. why bother? No one wanted it in the #spl. no one will want it when its complete. You only have yourself to blame for that.
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All im saying is, you say every time that jitspoe doesn't want to use your PAC, so go bring it else where. The dp community is tired of this.
You doesn't seem tired. But I'm tired because of you. Gonna do what i told i'll do.
i see prozajik is trying to help, and jitspoe cautions you. This is fair and well but if you honestly dont believe jitspoe will use your design. why bother? No one wanted it in the #spl. no one will want it when its complete. You only have yourself to blame for that.
Actually i blame haters like you. Not gonna describe why, ask yourself.
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haters like you? Payl, take a good look at yourself in a mirror, all you do on forums is put people down. Then when people are tired of you uselessness they ban you and you get all angry and said you did nothing.
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haters like you? Payl, take a good look at yourself in a mirror, all you do on forums is put people down. Then when people are tired of you uselessness they ban you and you get all angry and said you did nothing.
Excuse me CheMiCal, this isn't troll topic. You should leave now. No futher answers for trolling posts like that.
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Should upload 'PoC', the community would get a lot more use out of it.
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Should upload 'PoC', the community would get a lot more use out of it.
It's protected against entering network. Any try to go online will result in crash so sorry Rick, it won't help you.
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It's protected against entering network. Any try to go online will result in crash so sorry Rick, it won't help you.
So PoC and PaC are as useful as each other? Awesome.
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I love how payl brings up his huge knowledge every time he gets a chance =)
Payl, maybe you are dumb because you can't understand things enough, so you could explain them simply?
And no payl, everytime when someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are trolling.
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So PoC and PaC are as useful as each other? Awesome.
i'm not a troll so hop off buddy.
I love how payl brings up his huge knowledge every time he gets a chance =)
Payl, maybe you are dumb because you can't understand things enough, so you could explain them simply?
And no payl, everytime when someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are trolling.
Thanks for sharing, however i haven't found relation to PAC in your posts, so i don't think i can help you guys.
P.S. As for your signature blaa, i doesn't allow hotlinking just to this txt file.
P.S.2. I don't feel like answering to trolling/offtopic people. just in case you wonder why i behave like that.
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This...
haters like you? Payl, take a good look at yourself in a mirror, all you do on forums is put people down. Then when people are tired of you uselessness they ban you and you get all angry and said you did nothing.
... and this.
And no payl, everytime when someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are trolling.
People might be interested in your help for the community, if you wouldn't be as arrogant as you show yourself online. This is not the first time I am telling you, neither am I the only one telling you this. Why don't you just understand it and try to integrate in our community?
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P.S. As for your signature blaa, i doesn't allow hotlinking just to this txt file.
fixed, http://www.text-upload.com/read,3883624513471