Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: jitspoe on October 04, 2012, 07:23:14 PM
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Here's a little idea. A lot of people are turned off by the fact that only speed servers seem to be populated these days. I know there are a lot of us that want to play on the regular servers, and if we could coordinate a large enough effort, we should be able to get the standard servers popular again.
I guess the general idea would be to try to play exclusively on non-speed servers. If there aren't any with players, try to convince people on other servers, IRC, etc. to join you.
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+1
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The players who will read this probably don't play speed servers as it is.
If people are going to try to get IRC people to join a pub, it'll turn into them getting a private server for a PUG. Since better players don't want that 1 newbie to join, making it not competitive.
Don't see this idea going anywhere.
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So put all the good players into a server and expect newbies to stay and play, kk. They wont leave the Speed Servers, especially because there is more of them then there is of us.
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why shoot down ideas that take almost no effort to try? then you guys got mad when you posted that map idea with a bunch of cons and obstacles and people did the same thing to you....
nothing is ever gonna happen in this game if people btch out every post with an idea. at this point just say fck it and try whatever you think has any chance of helping lol. nothing can get worse...
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Just putting my opinion. Pew pew pew.
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why shoot down ideas that take almost no effort to try? then you guys got mad when you posted that map idea with a bunch of cons and obstacles and people did the same thing to you....
nothing is ever gonna happen in this game if people btch out every post with an idea. at this point just say fck it and try whatever you think has any chance of helping lol. nothing can get worse...
So true.
When I was first starting I liked the speed servers because I didn't have to wait so long to play another round.
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Well, I already do this and gotta say that most european who I know do not play on these server's anyway.
The problem is that we either have to play speed(or jump) or refuse to play and I, for me, refuse it, like most of us.
It's almost impossible to get another server filled up(superman's pub was quite populated, but I ping to high, so it's no fun anyways). I tried it before, waited up to half an hour, nobody came. PUGs are a possibility, but hell, after 5 mins of gaming everybody gets serious, failure is unacceptable. Not very pubbish if you ask me.
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If you don't like playing speed servers then just don't play them, and go into a non-speed server... then if enough players do this than the non-speed server will fill up. This will then give some of the players who constantly play the speed servers (and either don't go into other servers bc they are empty or don't go on forums to read this) a choice. Once the non-speed servers are populated it will at least have a chance to draw in players from speed servers.
i do agree that people need to quit complaining and its also alright to have an opinion, but maybe try some constructive criticism. Rather than just knocking down an idea, attempt to provide an alternative solution.
would be good if there were some way to alert players waiting for a non-speed server to get populated that others were waiting too. there are probably many times when a handful of players are all searching for the right server but choose not to sit and wait in an empty for others to join.
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Ghadente: Jitspoe posted about serverbrowser option to alert people when a specific server got populated.
Chalk: It's not shooting down the idea, it's providing an opinion. We got frustrated in the other thread because a lot of people didn't actually understand the reasoning and didn't comment back on points. I'm trying to explain why I don't think it'll work.
Most people seeing this post already avoids speedservers, and by populating a 'normal' pub, you're pretty much starting a pug - on a regular server. One 300ping 'newbie' will enter, and be afk or stuck low on pp1 etc... and people will start leaving (Or it'll go to a map some people don't enjoy). It always happens. It'd probably be different if the new players were english speaking, but they never are. You can't even try to help the random newbies that enter, because they're always brazilian. Pubs or Pugs of the IRC community are usually good for 1 or 2 maps before dying.
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Myers gets me. <3
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Ghadente: Jitspoe posted about serverbrowser option to alert people when a specific server got populated.
Chalk: It's not shooting down the idea, it's providing an opinion. We got frustrated in the other thread because a lot of people didn't actually understand the reasoning and didn't comment back on points. I'm trying to explain why I don't think it'll work.
Most people seeing this post already avoids speedservers, and by populating a 'normal' pub, you're pretty much starting a pug - on a regular server. One 300ping 'newbie' will enter, and be afk or stuck low on pp1 etc... and people will start leaving (Or it'll go to a map some people don't enjoy). It always happens. It'd probably be different if the new players were english speaking, but they never are. You can't even try to help the random newbies that enter, because they're always brazilian. Pubs or Pugs of the IRC community are usually good for 1 or 2 maps before dying.
"Don't see this idea going anywhere" = shooting down the idea != "fck your idea. you suck blah blah blah" lol
Of course some people will leave normal pubs because they get shot too much , or a noob ruins it, but that's how it is in every game(and how it used to be before dp went to sht). There are plenty of decent players who've never been on IRC that just run around on speed servers because they're the only ones that are populated.
All of the seemingly mindless noobs just join the server with the most people in it, and the people who usually get the servers going everyday are people from IRC community.
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The players who will read this probably don't play speed servers as it is.
If people are going to try to get IRC people to join a pub, it'll turn into them getting a private server for a PUG. Since better players don't want that 1 newbie to join, making it not competitive.
Don't see this idea going anywhere.
If anyone else said this in response to one of your ideas, you'd say that they're close minded and you're not going to post on the thread anymore. Do us a favor, and don't post on this, or any, threads anymore.
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Cute personal flame instead of posting regarding the thread, Gonass.
The difference is, I didn't call people closed minded for disagreeing with my opinion - Jitspoe disagreed with it, and other people too. It was when people posted just saying they disagreed with it, and avoiding explaining why (ie not posting anything related to my reasons why I thought it would work) - Or their posts showed they either didn't understand any of my simple points, or didn't take the time to even read them (which, if you don't read it why post?). On this thread I posted why I don't think this idea would work. Pretty simple. Do you understand?
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Cute personal flame instead of posting regarding the thread, Gonass.
You did the same. Calling out a flame. That is way off topic.
Do you understand?
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Now there is a second stupid 24/7 italy server.
wtf even one is/was to much
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Cute personal flame instead of posting regarding the thread, Gonass.
The difference is, I didn't call people closed minded for disagreeing with my opinion - Jitspoe disagreed with it, and other people too. It was when people posted just saying they disagreed with it, and avoiding explaining why (ie not posting anything related to my reasons why I thought it would work) - Or their posts showed they either didn't understand any of my simple points, or didn't take the time to even read them (which, if you don't read it why post?). On this thread I posted why I don't think this idea would work. Pretty simple. Do you understand?
If it was only acceptable to reply to a thread on the subject of the thread's title, then why did you do it too?
I saw a lot of people who understood the concept and explained why they thought it wouldn't work, or asked questions to further understand the concept. Some people were even making suggestions.
In fact, I didn't see anyone saying only that they didn't agree with it without explaining why before you had your little fit.
It seems to me like you got upset because some people didn't think it was a good idea. It wasn't that they didn't understand, that must be what you're telling yourself to make yourself feel better, like how you tell yourself that they're close minded too.
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How about the speed serves get taken down for a week? See what happens. Newbs will be forced to play on normal servers :)
P.s Take da flame warz into pmssss. It's getting hawt in here.
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Chalk: It's not shooting down the idea, it's providing an opinion. We got frustrated in the other thread because a lot of people didn't actually understand the reasoning and didn't comment back on points.
False
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Hey people!
In the last weeks we also tried to make our pub servers,
"Crack the Public" and "wGy´s Pub" more popular.
Recently we also started the "UaD< Public".
Of course I only know the situation in german-main-time,
in the american main time the situation could be another and
I wouldn't even notice. ;)
We always try to have an admin online who can ask for mapwishes, explain things and so on...
These are the problems I see, why most of the newbies don't play on pub servers:
Have you ever noticed that those DcN Servers are always on top of the sevrerlist although
there's no human player on it, only bots?
Hmmm. Maybe that's also the reason why they use bots. just thinking... ;)
My "conspiracy" theory is that this is their marketing strategy...
It's easy to play there for beginners.
They don't know much about PB2 and don't see that this is not the usual gameplay of PB2,
so they won't learn you need to learn to get better.
Its also really hard for european newbies without active friends in paintball to come into the pubscene and enjoy it, because:
1. Our pubscene is small, but full of pros.
2. Some of our pubplayers can't loose and some of them play like it was a match.
These are big reasons for newbies to prefer speed servers,
because they are not so good and often get marked (killed).
And on speedservers, they don't have to wait a long time to respawn, after a few seconds they can try again.
I explained this point already, sorry, but anyways!
I'm not just a speed-server-freak, just to explain myself.
How about the speed serves get taken down for a week?
I think it's not a bad idea to see what would happen,
if some of these "many-slot" servers without any active admins, would be close for couple days.
I'm really interested to see what would happen then. ;)
I think that this would be a chance for the normal servers and,
a little bit later, it could bring more activity to pubs.
From my position I would back up this idea. hehe
Question:
Did someone ever try to contact these people,
who are hosting that DcN, BOSS and other "many-slot" (imo horror) servers?
Maybe to explain them what we think about those servers, and why...
Do you think that the "cRack' the Speed" and "UaD< Speed" servers are also guilty
with 28 slots and elim time of 10 seconds?
I don't know what you realy think about it.
You're welcome to talk to us!
I hope you understand my english I learned by watching movies *rofl*.
Greetings
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At UaD< Speed, we already set the sv_login to 2 ;)
I don't think, that the "normal" Speed Servers are the Problem, more those with 64 Slots and 24/7 the same map.
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At UaD< Speed, we already set the sv_login to 2 ;)
I don't think, that the "normal" Speed Servers are the Problem, more those with 64 Slots and 24/7 the same map.
we dont care about the login. turn it into a normal pub azzzzholeee
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we dont care about the login. turn it into a normal pub azzzzholeee
We're already hosting 3 Public servers, 2 are always empty, and setting sv_login to 2 means that there won't be any newbies / no-names, which this is about most, isn't it?
And when there are no newbies, the server won't be used at all, because there are no players on it, so it's like shutting it down at all.
azzzzholeee
Love you too <3 <3 <3.
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We're already hosting 3 Public servers, 2 are always empty, and setting sv_login to 2 means that there won't be any newbies / no-names, which this is about most, isn't it?
And when there are no newbies, the server won't be used at all, because there are no players on it, so it's like shutting it down at all.
Love you too <3 <3 <3.
No, most of us just dont like the respawn time and maps + If there were no speed servers they would go to regular servers.
Btw: I don't mean anything by the name-calling. i just type stuff quickly and hit enter :D
thinking is dumb!
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Simple, just make the Elim time have a limit, it can't be less than 20 seconds.
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Simple, just make the Elim time have a limit, it can't be less than 20 seconds.
Then the admins just wouldn't update the servers. I did have a more subtle idea that would increase the respawn time based on how many players were in the game (so as the speed servers got more crowded, elim times would go up, making it actually possible to clear players out and grab flags): http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10031 -- it wasn't a popular idea at all.
In any case, this thread was a suggestion more to get the oldschool players active again, not so much for the new guys. If everybody involved in this discussion right now jumped on a server, we'd have a nice little 6v6-8v8. The biggest thing that bugged me about the speed servers is when I jumped on one to test the Linux build, and half the players on there had clan tags.
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I think to get old school players back there needs to be more competitive play. Tournaments. Pbcups. I think this is more appealing to older players becuase its more competitive then just grabbing 3 scrubs and matching each other.
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This community never handeled cups adequate. They demand it and once they get a tournament, they did anything to make it a worse experience for everybody.
We gotta work step by step. First of all we got to solve the pub problem. Then we can talk about a matching scene
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I totally agree, was just responding to jitspoe's previous post.
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Wouldn't it be possible to force public servers to have a lower maxclient value as 18 or so, or restricting the respawn timer non-server side? I mean somehow like the Global login system or so.
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If there were no speed servers they would go to regular servers.
i don't think that's necessarily true. IF players enjoy speed servers bc of the fast respawn time, then forcing them into servers may deter them from playing at all. (just a thought) [like if you took away Vanilla ice cream, then would every just eat Chocolate? would depend on how much they desired ice cream i guess]
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i don't think that's necessarily true. IF players enjoy speed servers bc of the fast respawn time, then forcing them into servers may deter them from playing at all. (just a thought) [like if you took away Vanilla ice cream, then would every just eat Chocolate? would depend on how much they desired ice cream i guess]
^^ This is exactly right. Limiting options is not the way to go.
Maybe we can think of some ways to improve "normal" games.
Copied from another thread:
I think rewarding players is also very important when it comes to keeping a steady player base. XP idea isn't bad. If each player had a level, received XP for playing there would actually be some incentive for some people to play. This would tie nicely into a certified server/map system. Can only get XP from certified servers, certified servers can only run certified maps. I think limiting the number of maps that can be certified is a mistake though.
This would also work with the competitive scene. Clans agree to only match on certified servers / maps. If XP stats were collected I don't see why match results couldn't also be. So match results could be automatically posted to the dplogin clan pages.
Why do people play video games? To have fun yes... but it is more than that. The most popular video games have some sort of progression to them that also incorporates rewards. The player feels like he is accomplishing something while playing. What do other FPS games do to reward players? XP, level system, achievements, unlockables.
DP currently has none of these. Does anyone here feel like they are accomplishing something while playing dp? Is anyone rewarded for playing dp? You can't blame people for playing on speed servers since mindless killing is all this game has to offer at the moment.
Why do you think jump maps have always been popular? There is some sort of progression, people want to make it to the end of the map. They feel like they have accomplished something if they complete a jump map.
Limiting options when only a few hundred people play would cause this game to die even quicker. ESPECIALLY when you are talking about removing probably the most popular aspect of the game at the moment.
My suggestions:
1. Have some good in-game tutorials explaining the basics.
2. Implement an XP/Level system (prestige?) with achievements and unlockables (Ties into certified servers/maps).
3. Get this game on steam.
I can almost 100% guarantee you that people will start playing in 60/30 sec elim servers more often than speed if they are rewarded for it.
Could probably keep going but I think you guys should get my point. Make game easier to learn, reward players, expand player base.
There is no quick-fix that will magically make DP popular again. DP is old, it has to be brought up to par if it wants to compete.
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Well, there are two key problems with the speed servers:
#1 - The game was never designed to have instant respawns in CTF. It's a round-based mode, where your objectives are to either eliminate the other team or capture the flag. Instant respawns make eliminating the other team impossible, and with instant respawns, getting into the base, grabbing the flag, and getting back out again is almost impossible with people respawning all the time (usually right next to the flag). Respawns were really just there to prevent people from getting stuck out of the game if people were taking too long to complete the objectives (ex: both teams just defending). It effectively just boils down to a kill fest with a stalemate on the objectives. There's already a game mode for this: DM!
#2 - They cater to the type of people who want instant action and have a short attention span and won't stick around for long. So, basically, they get more populated in the short term, but in the long term, people who want the instant mindless killfest move on to the next thing, and people who would have enjoyed the game as it was designed, had no idea it even played like that because all they experienced was a spawnkill fest, so they moved on as well.
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more DM maps?
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I think most people would rather be on a team than being alone. Maybe if we could tweak the TDM scoring so the matches don't feel like they drag on forever. I think currently you lose a point every time a member of your team is killed. In a server where everyone has roughly the same skill level the games don't end until the time limit is up, and by then people have gotten bored and left.
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I think most people would rather be on a team than being alone. Maybe if we could tweak the TDM scoring so the matches don't feel like they drag on forever. I think currently you lose a point every time a member of your team is killed. In a server where everyone has roughly the same skill level the games don't end until the time limit is up, and by then people have gotten bored and left.
That's already been changed... if you'd update your servers. ;)
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That's already been changed... if you'd update your servers. ;)
Oh, which build did you fix that in? Patch notes? =p. Maybe I will put up a TDM server for a bit to see if anyone likes it.
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Oh, which build did you fix that in? Patch notes? =p. Maybe I will put up a TDM server for a bit to see if anyone likes it.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=21809.msg204568#msg204568
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I for one, prefer playing solo than on a team. It isn't that I work poorly with others or not cooperative at being a "team-player", its just that i find playing solo in this game more fun and challenging. Plus you don't have to worry about other players to cover, block, or fail you.
i despise it when i join a DM map and its set on TDM, i'd rather just play ctf or koh.
I'd like to see more DM maps made though bc there are way too few of them compared to ctf.
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http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=21809.msg204568#msg204568
Oh, I didn't look back that far. My "normal" servers are running build 32 actually. Guess I just haven't played a TDM match in a long time.
I'd like to see more DM maps made though bc there are way too few of them compared to ctf.
Hopefully I will finish my DM map soon =).
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jitspoe, in all reality this is your game. do what you want at this point. so few people are left that are here daily, it mostly become a trial basis. i don't check in all that often, but i havent seen a server thats been filled within years. on a similar note, i wouldnt post if this game werent worth keeping around. i think many of us hold this opinion.
theres a place for speed servers, especially for new players who don't want to get plowed right off the block. still, it makes little sense to have a no limit respawn. this is ripe for spawn camping and complete manipulation. theres nothing wrong with waiting 10-30sec to respawn, and even becomes an advantage in a game thats so dependent on knowing where all the other players are.
make an update with a minimal respawn. the servers who dont comply will not be listed. the players who female dog will get used to it (i've gotten used to many different spawn times, all with initial whining, and in the end preferring 60sec in most cases). the servers who dont find their names on the list will see a dwindling amount of players joining. i'd rather see a dwindling server than a dwindling game.
at the end of the day, its pretty much all your game. its good to consult, but when so much of the dev in concentrated in on place, just do whats right. run it by a few handfuls of folk at first, but then just implement. make it fun for the public, while allowing the rest of us to play what we know. there needs to be a level of instinct involved in this.
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Maybe we should have a poll.