Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: deadfroggy on March 15, 2013, 07:44:18 AM
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I Named this inspiration because it was inspired(see next post)
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2 flags each base
5 points for bottom flag
3 for top
base is at bottom flag
5+ player map.
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My inspiration(picture at the bottom) posted by jitspoe in the thread inspirational pictures for mapping.
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you're actually getting a bit better but the only thing this inspired me to do was gauge my eyes out.
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You are really getting better and you don't need to answer the stupid posts that will follow here from the usual suspects. For the future you need to learn how to adjust the textures, keep on working.
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cl_drawhud 0
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A little bit better.. I've said this to you once before and Ill say it again. You need to spend more time detailing your maps. Improvement but still needs work.
Some minor things you can do for detail is to not use the same texture for the whole map :). On the insides of the windows try making it metal or wood. Sometimes I'll use color to help indicate which base you are in. I look at these SS's and that darn brick is all over!
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i really appreciate all the compliments of me getting better now.
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and if you were really smart you would google melloncollie. and i found out the word melloncollie is used in the movie skyfall.
I never watched Skyfall. My nicks are "MellonCollie" and "Pumpkinhead", because my favourite CDs are "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness" by Smashing Pumpkins.
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ah ok i watched skyfall and he looks at the painting and says makes me feel a little melloncollie.
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Suzuki have you done anything this entire time besides troll deadfroggy?
Back on topic. This map needs more texture variety. The same exact stone block texture throughout the map looks boring. I would also encourage you to release each beta edition as if it's the last beta before the final. That way, you won't get redundant criticism pointing out things that you were already going to fix anyway.
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when i do something i like to split it into sections and do it each section. ill probably change most of the textures in next beta or the one after i just wanted a base texture and body to the map. if you know what i mean.
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k a real tip, you need to start thinking about how you're going to map, are you gunna make maps for public servers or match maps? you can't do a variation of both. it just doesn't work. i can explain in detail on how to make maps for pubs and matchs but that's a ts3 kind of talk. not gunna type a novel for you to read.
P.S - making maps for the hell of it isn't really helping the community, if you're going to do that, you're better off not making them at all. just work on your map making skill and don't release every map you make, because everyone you have released has been under-par. but it's good you're working on making better ones. If you want help with ideas/maplooks send me a pm on here and i'll be honoured to beta test for you. Making maps that people will play in matchs and are thriving to play on pubs will greatly increase the gameplay and players alone will start getting attracted. Honestly imo the reason why people don't play is because there are horrible maps that take no brain to play.
BTW - this isn't to hurt your e-feelings, constructive criticism
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ill be able to get beta 2 out in a couple of days been busy.
and chemical why dont you give me ideas for this map?
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havnt looked at it yet, i will when i get the chance to.
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The biggest problem with this map, I think, is the balance of the paths. If you jump down and take the bottom (water) path, somebody could probably cap on you 3 times before you made it to the other base.
Other issues:
- With the block texture you're using, you should probably align everything on a 32 unit grid so the blocks align cleanly.
- The capture point is not clearly indicated.
- Lots of wood alignment issues.
- Ladders are difficult to climb (should probably use the ladder hint brush trick).
I wouldn't worry about the last 2 until you revamp the layout, though. The paths should take roughly the same amount of time to travel, otherwise there's no point going low.
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B2 Is out
added a couple things.
Thanks for the feedback jitspoe.
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I think you should probably wait until your maps are a little more complete before releasing them as beta. "Beta" usually means "complete but needs testing and minor tweaks". A lot of your maps seem to be still in the WIP (work in progress) stage, which I think is hurting your reputation. You should spend the time completing and fixing things you know need work, then when the map is done from your point of view, release it as a beta for community feedback.
Some things to focus on:
- Make your paths clear, fun, and balanced. Time the different paths and make adjustments so it takes roughly the same amount of time to take each path.
- Align textures as you go. You have a bunch of wood detail. Making a wood brush, aligning it, then copy/pasting it is a lot faster than making a whole bunch of them, then going back and aligning them later. Also, in the case of the block textures, a lot of times it's easier to build the brush so it aligns with the texture rather than the other way around. A lot of the brushes are .5 or 1.5 blocks thick. If you make them 1 block thick, they'll be aligned for the most part (you may need to rotate or shift some of the block textures, or shift the brushes so they align).
- Watch your r_speeds. Lots of detail + open areas + reflective water = high r_speeds and low framerates for some players. Try to keep your details to areas where not a lot of stuff is going on and you can afford the extra polygons.
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This is my take on your base (Obviously not the whole thing!) I think you could make it look a lot better, so just keep trying!
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I think i should change it to something like that even in my eyes i think the map is a little high..
Sorry been really busy.
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This is my take on your base (Obviously not the whole thing!) I think you could make it look a lot better, so just keep trying!
I personally don't like that water technique because there's nothing to hold it back except the sky, which looks bad.
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I personally don't like that water technique because there's nothing to hold it back except the sky, which looks bad.
What do you mean by theres nothing to hold it back and the sky looks bad?
Edit: nevermind figured it out. Baseball dude he whiped up a quick base. of course hes not going to add a wall or something there...
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The sky is holding the water back. It's like you're at the end of the horizon on the ocean.... which doesn't happen..
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I personally don't like that water technique because there's nothing to hold it back except the sky, which looks bad.
LOL. I was giving an example of a base, I'm sorry if it's not up to scratch compared to your maps.
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LOL. I was giving an example of a base, I'm sorry if it's not up to scratch compared to your maps.
Its 10 scratches above.
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Man these maps are nice but, i would really admire one of you mappers if one of you created a map close to shock
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Man these maps are nice but, i would really admire one of you mappers if one of you created a map close to shock
Shock was easily done. Just get bsp play around until you know how to
1. Make a brush
2. Alter the brush
3. Change the texture of the brush
4. Make a ladder
5.use clippers
6. Make a box, barrel
7. Bases, flags
8. Jumps
9. Entity window
10. Final compile
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4* no ladder in shock*
6* no barrels in shock*
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I was just telling him what the basics are...
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I could probably put together a map close to shock in 30 mins.
Back on topic: Is the next beta version coming out soon?
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I could probably put together a map close to shock in 30 mins.
Back on topic: Is the next beta version coming out soon?
then why don't you take you're time to make better maps? Because tbh i dont see much improvement with your maps and shock.. besides maybe size. No detailing with maps being released nowadays. People need to take time with there maps and put more thought into them. This goes to you and deadfroggy.
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It might be a while when i get the next beta out. I have to do a project. Im making a game with unity for a unicef thing for overseas.
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its cute when people like deadfroggy and baseballguy talk about map making :)
make 1 good map, not 5 bad ones xoxo
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Just the maps are too huge.
You go do an 30 second long jump, you reach the base and a random camper kills you
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its cute when people like deadfroggy and baseballguy talk about map making :)
make 1 good map, not 5 bad ones xoxo
love you too
Just the maps are too huge.
You go do an 30 second long jump, you reach the base and a random camper kills you
learn to evade campers..
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somehow i have to agree with Unrated.
In fact i have at least the same amount of started maps, but i don't publish before
I can't find any mistakes for myself. I already stated this before: You should spend more time on trying by urself to get the map perfect and then you can ask for community feedback.
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make 1 good map, not 5 bad ones xoxo
That's why neon_b2 is taking so long. I'm making a ton of renovations.
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then why don't you take you're time to make better maps? Because tbh i dont see much improvement with your maps and shock.. besides maybe size. No detailing with maps being released nowadays. People need to take time with there maps and put more thought into them. This goes to you and deadfroggy.
As of now I see no reason to think I'm any good at mapping (dungeon and skyscraper were kinda lame) but just wait, I have more maps in progress that are much better.
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As of now I see no reason to think I'm any good at mapping (dungeon and skyscraper were kinda lame) but just wait, I have more maps in progress that are much better.
at least im not as bad as this...
anyway back to work on this. map
Edit:
Ladders are difficult to climb (should probably use the ladder hint brush trick).
Just realised this mind pointing me to where i find out how to do this trick? i searched, just found maps...
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lol guys stop flaming and start mapping ...
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inspiration_b3 Uploaded to first post.
I decided since jitspoe said each path should take around about the same time. so i lowered the water so its abit faster at the bottom.Didnt't do ice, in my opinion ice ruins maps when you can just slip, slide and fly to the flag its kinda bad.
and i thought i 'd give a wack at that metal detail type of thing rick had in his idea for the base. Let me know what you think of the metal type of thing.
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Ladder tutorial: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=5439
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Ladder tutorial: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=5439
Thanks
B4 is out uploaded to first post.
fixed ladders.
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do your research before you make a map, Ive never released a map on the forums, but Ive read a excrement ton of those tutorials and posts, making sure Ive got excrement down before I release something.
Read the tutorials, experiment, then go on other peoples submissions and see what problems they had. See if you can find them in your map, fix them, then repeat this process. Then when your map doesnt look like excrement, realise that it still does, and carry on working on it. Then make sure theres no stupid mistakes thus far in your map making process, and THEN release that excrement on here.
And people tell you straight up that you need to work on your skills as a map maker before releasing stuff, take a hint, meddling darn.
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look ok once this map gets to its final. i promise ill make 30-35 maps try to finish them from my point of view then i might realese another map. if that isnt good then. i will stop mapping.. ok? everyone agree? and those 30-35 maps cant be finished in a w.i.p stage.
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ill make 30-35 maps
No, please just focus on one map at a time and put a ton of effort into it so that it looks really nice and has excellent gameplay. Dont just make a ton of shock-like maps.
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look ok once this map gets to its final. i promise ill make 30-35 maps try to finish them from my point of view then i might realese another map. if that isnt good then. i will stop mapping.. ok? everyone agree? and those 30-35 maps cant be finished in a w.i.p stage.
I wouldn't recommend that.
Refer to baseballdude's post.
Keep working on one map until it looks good, learn to make terrain and never use less than 8 grid size to have less misaligned brushes. Only use less then 8 when detailing etc. etc.
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you must have missunderstood me..
im going to do one map at a time. get to the point were i finish it so its not in a work in progress stage like most of my maps. then add detail
etc. once that one map is done. i will do the same thing. until ive done it 30 times.
im going to work on this map until it is final and then ill start what i just said. so ill be working on one map at a time.
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Who cares about the haters. I learnt a lot off of posting 2 poor maps on here.
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Who cares about the haters. I learnt a lot off of posting 2 poor maps on here.
frigid 1 + 2? haha jk <3
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btch plz.
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Who cares about the haters. I learnt a lot off of posting 2 poor maps on here.
by the sounds of it ive posted about 5 poor maps. and im still learning. lol
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I learnt by being critiqued and by just randomly trying to map excrement. Once you get how to map properly, it doesn't go away. You and Baseballdud are still learning, you'll get there though.
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I learnt by being critiqued and by just randomly trying to map excrement. Once you get how to map properly, it doesn't go away. You and Baseballdud are still learning, you'll get there though.
this is why i think your the best community member.
back to topic found a couple problems when playig with people on my server on the map. ill fix them in b5.
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Uploaded B5
fixed capture spot
aligned a couple of little things.
ps: was playing This map with people on my server. and got some positive feedback on looks and gameplay.
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im going to make this the final if noone else has any feedback. or bugs or something.
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im going to make this the final if noone else has any feedback. or bugs or something.
Ill give feedback later today if you want it, when I have time.
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Ill give feedback later today if you want it, when I have time.
Please.
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i think it's a good step in the right direction that map :)
many common mistakes have been avoided. i was glad to see clip brushes and nice mapping details. One thing i'd want to mention: More brushes that show on which half of the map u actually are at the moment would be nice, and have another look at the texture alignements of the ladders. Finally there is this way with the red brick texture, it seems a bit empty. Overall good map although i couldnt try out gameplay yet.
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ps: was playing This map with people on my server. and got some positive feedback on looks and gameplay.
i started up a server and i played with a couple of people. like that 120-choice guy and a couple others who i forgot. and the gameplay was really good i mean when we got caps wasnt to fast or slow to cap.each path is relatively the same depending on strafing, walking etc . i went each way and yeah got caps at relatively the same time the bottom top mid is fastest but easiest to get killed the side paths around the map are a little slower but. probably the easiest way to not get killed as much depending on how many players etc. bottom path the water is actually probably the best path to take as long as noones sitting above you as you come through the tunnels. the flags are in somewhat easy places to get. the caps are to. but there might be a couple of issues with gameplay. like the size of a tunnel or something.keep me updated. : D
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Here is my feedback in demo form, I hope it is good feedback you can use. :)
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got enough time to watch it then thanks for the feedback. i forgot about the ammo entitys and stuff.
only thing i didnt undertsand was you said use hint brushes where you had the high r_speeds. would you explain please. Sorry
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No problem.
When your map loads, the game loads the entire map, even the parts you are not looking at or the parts you are in, you don't want it to do that, so use hint brushes and divide your map into sections (I'm sure there is a tutorial on it have a play about with hint brushes it took me a while to get used to then) that way you tell the game that the bridge is different to the water for example.
There may be a tutorial on it somewhere, I don't know.
Edit: You can use any brush just make sure you select hint in the surface properties window, it might help with being able to actually see your map, hint brushes get in the way (or I did it wrong)
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There was:
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=11297.0
mind making a tutorial omni since i dont think knack or someone is around anymore..
and by the ideas in the demo did you mean like this?
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Yeah, glad I made myself easy to understand.
There was:
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=11297.0
mind making a tutorial omni since i dont think knack or someone is around anymore..
No I don't mind but ill need more practise, I'm no expert. In the meantime I would suggest dowoadig the newest version of corruo ( http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=25710.0) in the zip there is a map file take a lot at that and see how I did it, I don't know other maps that use them so.
Edit: ok after some quick searching around I found this I hope it helps it explains what a brush does to help optimise the map. http://panjoo.tastyspleen.net/rust/tutorials/hint/hint.htm
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I had a look at curruo and tastyspleen. is this how you do it?
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All trolling aside, I think the gameplay on this would be awful, but the map itself isn't that bad. Visually it's alright, but it's still better than a lot of people who have been mapping for years and think they're very good at mapping. So surprisingly not bad. Certainly an upgrade over most of the maps you've made.
If making good gameplay was easy, every cusoman map would be played. There's a lot of mappers who can make things visually appealing, but not many can do that while incorporating gameplay. Keep working at it though.
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All trolling aside, I think the gameplay on this would be awful, but the map itself isn't that bad. Visually it's alright, but it's still better than a lot of people who have been mapping for years and think they're very good at mapping. So surprisingly not bad. Certainly an upgrade over most of the maps you've made.
If making good gameplay was easy, every cusoman map would be played. There's a lot of mappers who can make things visually appealing, but not many can do that while incorporating gameplay. Keep working at it though.
thankyou! i'll be able to make maps with both at some point. its just practice , practice makes perfect as they say.
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There's a lot of mappers who can make things visually appealing, but not many can do that while incorporating gameplay. Keep working at it though.
That's funny cuz I personally find gameplay to be a lot easier than appearance.
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That's funny cuz I personally find gameplay to be a lot easier than appearance.
I guess different people find different things easier, I find it ridiculously hard to make a map that has good gameplay, but they look ok.
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That's funny cuz I personally find gameplay to be a lot easier than appearance.
This could come across as rude, but there's a reason nobody who plays or has played this game competitively doesn't know any maps by you. Pub maps don't require gameplay, they are quick respawn. Match maps with 60 second respawn do, for the most part. The maps that stick around through the years are typically due to gameplay. Everyone always overrates their own maps, thinking it looks nice / plays nice, cause a few of their friends say that.
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tbh i don't think you can really make a map completely based on gameplay. I think it's all luck. The only way to do so is say, you make your map. You test it with 5 other people for hours upon hours to see if it finally works correctly. I don't think anyone in the mapping community or matching community has ever done that... ever.
EDIT-- This is based on personal experience. My map Inner_Sanctum imo is one of the best looking maps but one of the paths is just insanely fast and it kinda forces you to go mid, no one goes low (the best looking part of my map) With the new map I'm making right now I would actually like to test gameplay if anyone is interested.
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id be happy to test it.
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I'll be on irc in around 30minute-1hour it is nowhere near completion but I would like some more ideas and such. connect the the #paintball channel on IRC and I'll shoot you a P.M.
EDIT -- Or #pbmappers I'm always in there.
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This could come across as rude, but there's a reason nobody who plays or has played this game competitively doesn't know any maps by you. Pub maps don't require gameplay, they are quick respawn. Match maps with 60 second respawn do, for the most part. The maps that stick around through the years are typically due to gameplay. Everyone always overrates their own maps, thinking it looks nice / plays nice, cause a few of their friends say that.
Well of course no one knows any maps by me because I just got started. nad plus nobody knows any maps by you so I wouldn't be talking. And if I wasn't clear, the reason I said gameplay is easier than appearance is because appearance can be tedious and annoying. Sometimes I hate designing something beautiful and then thinking, "this isn't going to affect the gameplay at all." But (almost) every good map has both appearance and gameplay. Deadfroggy's map has a decent amount of both.
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Only good maps with good gameplay = propanit1 80% of dt maps... and thats about it. Maybe wobluda, but too easy to camp.
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Beta 6 uploaded to first post.
if no bugs or problems are found by next week ill probably release as final.
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Can't wait for final version! Gonna be awesome.
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The visuals are looking better. Unfortunately, all the details you have, combined with the fact that almost everybody is visible, means it's choppy even on a high end system. The r_speeds are insanely high. You need to work on ways to block visibility so you can't see from one base all the way to the other, and everything in between.
The low path is still cumbersome and awkward to get out of. The low spawns are really bad, too. You spawn right in front of the enemy team, and it's basically a matter of who fires first.
I've attached a demo of some beta testing on it, so you can get an idea of how it plays and what some of the issues are.
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Well of course no one knows any maps by me because I just got started. nad plus nobody knows any maps by you so I wouldn't be talking. And if I wasn't clear, the reason I said gameplay is easier than appearance is because appearance can be tedious and annoying. Sometimes I hate designing something beautiful and then thinking, "this isn't going to affect the gameplay at all." But (almost) every good map has both appearance and gameplay. Deadfroggy's map has a decent amount of both.
No, it doesn't have a decent amount of both. Appearance is tedious and annoying, but gameplay is something that for the most part can't be planned, and is much more trial and error. It takes much more time to get a good map that will be balanced and played. An example is your map, Neon, it's just random clusters of paths that are different speeds. I would argue it has average appearance, as any relatively okay mapper can have decent appearance, but 0 gameplay, as you've never broken into the competitive scene to understand what is needed. Gameplay is a different knowledge about the game, therefore making it harder. It's not BSP knowledge. PS: Everyone knows Applejuice.bsp
In regards to this map: Played it lastnight on beta server:
- The "brick" side-paths are very narrow, to much like a hallway, make that path more interesting, less boring.
- The map itself is very square. High square brick outer walls.
- The water/high is such a big drop for such a small map. Makes it feel oversized
- The flag placement is not very good, doesn't need to have 2 flags. It's not like you can really set up grabs.
- The obvious FPS problems in base
The map just felt oversized for such a small map while playing it. There weren't any real jumps. Getting out of water was annoying. The concept of the map was pretty cool though, and it looked alright.
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The only thing i can really change without changing alot is the first one. I was actually planning on putting windows and stuff around the outside with like porches and stuff hanging off but i would think that would make the r-speeds so much higher. Making the last point more to point a bigger point.
Thank you for your feedback. Cant work atm away for about 4 days.
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Ok in the demo all i saw was water, water, bottom, hint/func_walls, water,awkward skinny hallways, water, water, bottom spawn.
I have no idea how you would make it less awkward and stuff to get out of bottom.
Ill have another play around with the hint brushes and stuff.
and I dont think theres a better alternitive to the skinny hallways.
Sorry for double posting. back to work on it.