Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Topic started by: Clipz on June 19, 2013, 08:13:31 PM
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I've gone over this with a few people and they seemed to like the idea. I've touched base with Jitspoe upon this and from what I think he said he was not against it.
This is all just a BASIC LAYOUT.. nothing would be final.
We need a ranking system, with servers only allowing certian ranks. Have 50 levels.
Beginner Servers: LVL 1-15
Intermediate Servers: LVL 16-30
Advanced Servers: LVL 31-45
Expert Servers: LVL 45+
Any Rank Server: LVL 1-50 (Anyone can play)
This would allow the best to play with the best, the worst to play with the worse. It could keep games more balanced with skills.
Like COD I think you should be able to reset after lvl 50 if you want to. Yeah you might dominate the newbies, but it wouldn't be for too long.
EXP points would generate and dictate your LVL.
If we did for example 100 exp a kill. We could also give 50 for grabbing and then another 100 for capturing the flag. Each lvl will be its LVL number X 1000.
Examples:
Level 1 - 1000 exp
Level 10 - 10000 exp
Level 25 - 25000 exp
Level 38 - 38000 exp
Level 43 - 43000 exp
Level 50 - 50000 exp
If you are a level 1 you would have 1000 exp, to get to level 2 you would need an additional 2000 exp meaning 3000 total. The numbers i posted is how many exp you need to get to the next level not how many total you need to get there. It could take a while to level up in the higher levels.
The servers for this would also have to be official servers that log your kills. This would make it so someone doesn't just play vs 10 bots with one second re-spawn on a map they can just spawn kill bots and rack up their EXP.
We could also give BONUS EXP Achievements.
Examples:
-100 pgp kills: 5000 exp.
-200 stingray kills: 5000 exp.
-200 traccer kills: 5000 exp.
-300 VM kills: 5000 exp.
-400 Spyder SE kills: 5000 exp
-500 Carbine kills: 5000 exp.
-750 Automag kills: 5000 exp.
-1500 Autococker kills: 7500 exp.
-500 Grenade kills: 5000 exp.
-1000 grabs: 5000 exp.
-750 caps: 6000 exp.
-750 kills with brass barrel: 2500 exp.
-3000 kills with chrome barrel: 5000 exp.
-5000 kills with steel barrel: 7500 exp.
The autococker is the most commonly used gun in the game so I think it should take more kills but be more rewarding.
We can think of more achievements if we decide to do this and we should vote upon them all. I wish I knew how to code because I would help ya. The game needs something BIG and NEW, I think this would be perfect quite honestly. Think about being a newbie and joining a server with someone more advanced they have ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE.
I think you should really consider this one jitspoe. I don't know how tough this would be to code but I think it would improve the game a ton because people would have objectives now.
Hell it would get me to play more often as well.
EDIT: I'm open to listen to other peoples suggestions for this... Once we get enough info on how this would end up working I could do a "official post" with all the information.
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This would pretty much go under this feature vote: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10078
Regarding exp/Experience Points/XP, Tribes Ascend has an interesting approach. I'm not sure if it's unique or not, but here's how they do it:
XP is calculated by the equations below:
Base XP = (Time played in seconds) * 0.5833
Bonus XP = ((win or loss[1/0]) * (Base XP * 0.25)) + (Base XP * 0.25) / (scoreboard rank)
VIP = (Base XP + Bonus XP) * 1.5
Boost = Base XP + Bonus XP + VIP
Given the same VIP status, boost bonus and time played, the formulas above mean that players in the winning team will always make more XP than players in the losing team. For example, the player that ranked first in his losing team would still get less XP than the player that ranked last in the winning team. Hence, it is best to play to win and not to top the scoreboard.
Players gain a flat 1200 XP bonus from their first win of the day. This bonus becomes available every day at 5 AM EST.
From: http://tribes.wikia.com/wiki/Experience
On the plus side, this makes people focus more on playing the game, and less on stupid crap like "Stat Paddling" in the Battlefield series. On the minus side, it's not very clear how much XP you're getting and why.
They also have servers by rank, but it's pretty much a big jump. I think it was at level 10 for me, but it looks like it's at level 8 now. You basically go from dominating everybody to getting completely dominated as soon as you get out of the "kiddie pool". It would be nice to have a smoother transition, but we don't have enough people actively playing right now. At least that's better than just getting dominated as soon as you start playing.
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Hell it would get me to play more often as well.
+1
I like the idea of weapon specific achievements, could bring back the weapons that don't get put in maps alot, or the use of maps that don't get played frequently with them in it.
Just a thought, but with the levels, you could also have maps for specific levels, since maps these days seem to have to be made newbie friendly. Obviously maps would have to be made for it, but then it could make it more interesting for higher levels as well. Also shows the idea of unlocking maps?
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I think the COD system is better but ultimately its your decision.
Screw the voting on this one.. this is something that NEEDS to be done. By the time we receive enough votes to do it it will be 2020 and no one will play. Not enough people in the game come on the forums to vote as it is.
The game needs a dramatic change and this would do it.. I will guarantee you it wont hurt the game and will only help.
Could you possibly set up a global vote for each player who opens up dp gets to read about it once and then place a vote?
This will give the newbie players a better read on the game. If you are wanting to do this jitspoe let me know, I'd love to help you get the numbers figured out on XP and BONUS's. If we did it the way I posted it would take 1,270,000 EXP to make it from lvl 0-50.
I love the idea of different maps for different level and possibly unlocking newer maps if we get the OFFICIAL MAPLIST going too.
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Cool idea, had something in mind like that but not exactly like it. Only flaw I see is what if somebody gets higher in a level but then does't play the game in a while and comes back and sucks again. Then you'll still have noobs running around in "higher level servers".
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I think the COD system is better but ultimately its your decision.
The COD system is simpler, but I really don't want getting XP being the driving factor so much so that people are completely avoiding the aspects of the game that make it fun in order to grind XP in the fastest way possible. This is part of where an official maplist will play a role, but people will still pick the smallest, most crowded map possible, so that they can get kills and level up as fast as possible. I don't want to further promote speed server mentality. If you base XP on winning, time played, and scoreboard ranking, it scales to any map or game mode.
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If this does end up happening though make sure this.....Any Rank Server: LVL 1-50 (Anyone can play)..............is actually implemented. Make a few servers like that. People love playing pubs the way they do now.
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The COD system is simpler, but I really don't want getting XP being the driving factor so much so that people are completely avoiding the aspects of the game that make it fun in order to grind XP in the fastest way possible. This is part of where an official maplist will play a role, but people will still pick the smallest, most crowded map possible, so that they can get kills and level up as fast as possible. I don't want to further promote speed server mentality. If you base XP on winning, time played, and scoreboard ranking, it scales to any map or game mode.
your right, dont let xp be the soul factor for ranks, i think it should be kill/death ratio and capture/round ratio( or capture/game ratio) and what map you played on( so the more maps you played the better your ranking, since this helps out newbies turning into pros because of the experince in maps)
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The COD system is simpler, but I really don't want getting XP being the driving factor so much so that people are completely avoiding the aspects of the game that make it fun in order to grind XP in the fastest way possible. This is part of where an official maplist will play a role, but people will still pick the smallest, most crowded map possible, so that they can get kills and level up as fast as possible. I don't want to further promote speed server mentality. If you base XP on winning, time played, and scoreboard ranking, it scales to any map or game mode.
I agree on the map list will help it. I also think that it should have an official server.cfg with the Correct Elim (60 SECONDS)
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I personally care nothing about an XP system, HOWEVER! this can accomplish something totally different. If we can get the new players playing against other newer players and this is how we make it happen, it's probably worth a try. Jit has mentioned several times about how many people download the game but don't stick around. My personal thought is that this happens because they more experienced players just kick their ass so bad they don't have fun and don't come back. Sooooooooooo if it's the XP / achievements that keep them around great but what I'm hoping it does is make these players progress together and build a bigger scene.
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Just taken some factors from previous posts that could be for gaining XP.
- Who you're playing (XP wise) AND/OR k/d ratio
- Win/Loss on map
- Map (difficulty level?, respawn time, gun temp, etc)
- Time played
- New map to player (limitations applied to this such as as to be playing it for a specific amount of time/specific amount of players as well)
- Boost (like double xp weekend in cod, try get a heap of people playing one weekend)
- Grabs/Caps (not sure on this one, anyone can run around the map like a mad man and cap/grab, if so it'd be a small factor)
Any more?
I agree with XP grinding, yeah you can aim and hit someone, but how well do you know maps (like toxiic said), how long have you actually played for? I reckon they'd be better to go for, also means longer to get XP up so you have to play more ;).
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If you over complicate the XP system your talking 100's of extra hours for Jit as well. Keep it simple.
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Maybe even bring in Clan Levels?
-500 Kills [clan] = Level 2
-1000 Kills / 250 Grabs [clan] = Level 3..
etc.
This could also effect how much xp per player?
Just chuckin' it out here.
Edit:
For Clipz,
Maybe even make it so if you leave a clan within a month or two, your xp is halved?
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Maybe even bring in Clan Levels?
-500 Kills [clan] = Level 2
-1000 Kills / 250 Grabs [clan] = Level 3..
etc.
This could also effect how much xp per player?
Just chuckin' it out here.
Edit:
For Clipz,
Maybe even make it so if you leave a clan within a month or two, your xp is halved?
Hahahaha I like it!
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If you over complicate the XP system your talking 100's of extra hours for Jit as well. Keep it simple.
I just listed everything I could see and think of that could be possibly implemented to affect the XP growth. Also, someone could attempt to set up functions and algorithms to base it off, or at least find something similar, which jitspoe doesn't have to do. In the actual implementation to the game, I understand that would be a different story.
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Hahahaha I like it!
:D
The official map list should be finalized before an attempt on this is made. Then, whilst the Mapping Committee are making the needed adjustments to the maps, Jitspoe could be implementing this.
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:D
The official map list should be finalized before an attempt on this is made. Then, whilst the Mapping Committee are making the needed adjustments to the maps, Jitspoe could be implementing this.
Good call, I think both of these topics will improve the game tremendously.
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List of some achievements:
HeadShot(would require a specific head hitbox model}
Killstreaks reward higher xp
Capped on enemy team
Grabbed on enemy team
Multiple kills with one nade
No deaths in one game
best k/d on the team
best k/d in the match MVP
Longest without dying
Most grabs in one match
Most Caps in one match
Most grenade kills
Topspeed
Most assits.
Gun Challenges:
100 kills pgp
100 kills cocker
100 kills spyder
100 kills carbine
100 kills vm
100 headshots all those guns ^
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your right, dont let xp be the soul factor for ranks, i think it should be kill/death ratio and capture/round ratio( or capture/game ratio) and what map you played on( so the more maps you played the better your ranking, since this helps out newbies turning into pros because of the experince in maps)
I think ranking and XP levels should be two separate things.
XP is just points you get for playing in general. A value that climbs and doesn't really represent much more than how much you've played.
Ranking is more complex -- it's your relative position to other players based on performance. If player A defeats player B, player A's rank should go up, and player B's rank should go down. I think ranking would have to be reserved for competitive matches, as trying to account for players joining/leaving matches, autobalance, etc. just makes it too complicated and likely to be frustrating for the players.
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I think ranking and XP levels should be two separate things.
XP is just points you get for playing in general. A value that climbs and doesn't really represent much more than how much you've played.
Ranking is more complex -- it's your relative position to other players based on performance. If player A defeats player B, player A's rank should go up, and player B's rank should go down. I think ranking would have to be reserved for competitive matches, as trying to account for players joining/leaving matches, autobalance, etc. just makes it too complicated and likely to be frustrating for the players.
so wait, let's suppose player A is top ranked and player B is second ranked; let's also suppose that player A goes inactive, then how would player B become top place?
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Most assits.
I presume you mean assists? Not sure how you assist in an instakill game..
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I presume you mean assists? Not sure how you assist in an instakill game..
Hit the enemy with a smoke!
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Hit the enemy with a smoke!
Oh my godz, totessss. ;)
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so wait, let's suppose player A is top ranked and player B is second ranked; let's also suppose that player A goes inactive, then how would player B become top place?
I'm guessing this is kind of like the ELO system that Rick was running for the clans, but on a player basis, so it doesn't matter if someone goes inactive, its relative to ALL players, not just one.
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I presume you mean assists? Not sure how you assist in an instakill game..
Was just giving ideas, ripped it from CoD. Glad the correction squad was on the job though! Thanks Epworth. <3
Then again in CoD I believe I remember that you didn't even have to hit the enemy to get an assist, I think they have some AI to detect that you were going for that person. A little advanced for DP yes I know.
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I'm pretty sure in COD you need to hit the player to get an assist. With a bullet, or any type of nade.
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Wasn't sure, I thought maybe I have had an assist without touching them just going for them and then someone else getting them. Can't remember, I don't play CoD anymore it's a horrid game series.
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Wasn't sure, I thought maybe I have had an assist without touching them just going for them and then someone else getting them. Can't remember, I don't play CoD anymore it's a horrid game series.
Battlefield has suppression assists, maybe that's what you were thinking of.
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Battlefield has suppression assists, maybe that's what you were thinking of.
Probably, I do play Battle Field a lot more than CoD, just got the 2 mixed up haha. Good call ^^
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I've noticed that no one has even touched the idea of character customization. Would level 50 players have any advantage of better guns, barrels,hoppers, etc over the lower ranked newbies. Also would you be able to completely customize your character (clothes, FEMALE characters, not that we don't love jitspoe's face :P, gloves, shoes, etc.) I'm not very sure how we could give advantages in a game that has SPAWNED guns but, idk this is just something else to think about :/
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Gun camo would be nice, especially as custom paintjobs are a lot more likely on paintball markers than on real guns.
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Gun camo would be nice, especially as custom paintjobs are a lot more likely on paintball markers than on real guns.
haha yeah that's cool, I realize it might take a hell of a lot of time and work to do this but....it would be super cool to take this idea to another level. When you goto customize your gun an animation of the gun with options on the side would be sick, and you could click and drag the mouse left or right to rotate the gun 360 degrees! :P
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Also I figured out a way for the assist thing to work. Whoever grabs while on your team gets the assist, of course only if the person without the flag on your team gets the kill.
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not that we don't love jitspoe's face :P
Are the face textures for the player models really pictures of Jitspoe's face?
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Are the face textures for the player models really pictures of Jitspoe's face?
Yea, pretty sure lol ask him! :P and please try to stay on topic.
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Viciouz: I like the idea of different skins on the guns for camo,
SnooD: The assist idea I dont think we would need. It would almost be the same statistic as grabbing.
Kakarot: I dont think that the level fifty players should get any in game advantage, they already will have a big advantage with their skill and knowledge of the game.
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Kakarot: I dont think that the level fifty players should get any in game advantage, they already will have a big advantage with their skill and knowledge of the game.
is it possible that only you can see the camo, and not others?
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Interesting idea - at least for to try. But if I understand it correctly, your access to servers will be limited by your current exp level..? Hmm, If this is the case then I think this idea could destroy the whole game
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YES! It's about time a thread was made about this idea!
Interesting idea - at least for to try. But if I understand it correctly, your access to servers will be limited by your current exp level..? Hmm, If this is the case then I think this idea could destroy the whole game
Yeah, I agree. We need to be careful. There'd need to be more players for a limited server system to work. Think of it how it could effect newbies. 'Oh look, there's a great server. OH WAIT, my rank is too low, I'll just join the... OH WAIT, no one is there :( *closes pb2*"
However, in saying that, it seems the speed servers are the most popular servers anyhow (mostly newbies play there), so this may run well. We just have to be careful.
Another thing to take in consideration is exploits. Jitspoe should make 'traps' for exploiters to ensure that cheating is a no-go. Hackers could fake requests to the server, resulting in MASS XP, rank Etc. What I would do, is perform simple, yet crafty traps like randomly checking, for example the XP at "time A" then when the next random check comes ("time B") compare the two against eachother. If "time B's XP - time A's XP" is greater than [Insert unrealistic XP jump here] then ban the player. There are also many other traps you could install, like fake 'hacker' values, for example 'winround' if a hacker tried changing that variable (the variable isn't real,it's a trap) then ban them. (You may want to hide this for future reference of hackers)
As long as we are careful about it and consider traps for exploiters, I think this idea is a win, win.
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Interesting idea - at least for to try. But if I understand it correctly, your access to servers will be limited by your current exp level..? Hmm, If this is the case then I think this idea could destroy the whole game
So inorder to fix this we could do the following, for example: if player A has a higher level then player B, then player A should be able to go into player B server, but player B should not be able to go into player A server. Also I know this has a flaw, better exp/skill level difference, which will allow player A to beat and rank easier in player B server due to skill level, but to fix that; implement a xp defincence system, in other words, if player A is in player B's server then player A should not either gain xp or gain extremely low xp. So the bigger the level difference between your level and the server level, the lower the xp obtained.
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As JMR pointed out, preventing exploiters/cheaters is going to be a big deal - probably more work than implementing the core system itself.
As for splitting the player base... I'm not sure if this will help things grow or not. I think single player/bots are probably a higher priority than this. If there are bots, we can at least fill up servers for newer players with AI. I hope that, with as many people are downloading the game, there are enough new players to play against each other and have a more enjoyable experience since they're all at the beginner level. The problem might be finding a server with more experienced players.
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The experienced player match anyway, rarely find them in a pub.
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no kill streaks lol........but as far as ranked would go, make it the max level only, it makes no sense for a level 1 to play ranked. people arent going to like it when level 1 new players are on thier team and they lose games/stats over it. it would make the new players work hard for max level, and by then they will have some sort of skill to play ranked, and do decent.
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All this talk about CoD. ( Black Ops 2 <3)
1. It has a killcam which should be implement. theres a feature vote for that already i know.
2. Weapons have attachments( could improve accuracy, flight etc.)
3. has a minimap that shows you were an enemy is if they fire.
4. Has Search and Destroy <3
5. If you go and kill bots you dont get the xp for it. you just get the fun.
6. Theres alot more customization.
7. I like to trickshot. :)
8. Stuns, concussions etc.
Now i just have to point these out because they can help. 1 or 2 of these relate to something someones said. so its not off topic.
But a This is a mandatory thing you need jitspoe. if you want this game well known you have to do it. im 100% with clipz.
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if there is ever stuns and excrement, i'd quit.... there are already attachments....barrels, co2, hopper, ect. i agree with a minimap but it shouldnt show where people are.
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Only when they fire, it shows where they are.yeah stuns would get annoying. but it would shake it up abit.
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no, showing where people are ruins the game.
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You've never seen what its like. might help. what about those newbies have no idea where abouts on the map people are shooting at them from?
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At some point Jit has to decide what's in the best interest in the gaming. Pleasing US the core players or bringing in new players. Not one person who posts on this forum will give a single intercourse about bots. But what's in the best interest of the current core group might not be the best interest of the game itself. It took the game 15 years to get where it's at now with little changes at a time, I've seen it all from the beginning, we're asking for the game to be re-invented overnight.
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No not re-invented. Its improved. If you take little steps at a time your just going to be "old fashioned" by the end of it. As jitspoes taking those little steps hes improving his knowledge but. As he gets to the end when its really good. Theres going to be games you wouldnt even think of when you started. You need to start taking bigger steps before you know it. You will be running, and you cant be stopped. Your argument is invalid.
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You've never seen what its like. might help. what about those newbies have no idea where abouts on the map people are shooting at them from?
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yes i have, it's like cod.... showing where people are ruins some strats...... if you really think that this is a good idea, then you truly are stupid
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No not re-invented. Its improved. If you take little steps at a time your just going to be "old fashioned" by the end of it. As jitspoes taking those little steps hes improving his knowledge but. As he gets to the end when its really good. Theres going to be games you wouldnt even think of when you started. You need to start taking bigger steps before you know it. You will be running, and you cant be stopped. Your argument is invalid.
I didn't make an argument, I stated a fact.
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Just to throw my 2 cents in... Good idea. I'd put the money behind 2-3 of each server, just to see how it's reacted to. Maybe find a clan across the water that would do the same for Euro servers.
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Usually, there are only 3-5 servers people play on at a time, excluding matching servers. In some timezones there is only 1 server at any point in time. There are not enough players for multiple servers depending on ranks- they might not even play on the ranked server but some other speed one. Unless, you could have like a ranked playlist that automatically sorts you into a game depending on your rank and notify the players that xp is only gained on those servers with the official maps (if that is how you are doing it).
Also, what's stopping people getting an OTB/Arctic/cP/etc. match server with a friend or a multiaccount and just grinding for xp- boosting. Will you make 1v1's very un efficient for getting xp to stop this? Maybe it would increase numbers of multiaccounts otherwise... As you said "preventing exploiters/cheaters is going to be a big deal - probably more work than implementing the core system itself."
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I didn't make an argument, I stated a fact.
*your fact is invalid.
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yes i have, it's like cod.... showing where people are ruins some strats...... if you really think that this is a good idea, then you truly are stupid
This is not like cod in anyway im sorry the only way that it is, is that its a first person shooter. You must be too stupid to use different "strats" this is more fast paced. It can help people that cant use sound for some reason. If someones shooting at you it will be "oh hes over there" instead of "where the **** is he." less rage-> peace->chemical stops complaining that people are stupid because they don't agree with him and leaves-> happy days.
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what the hell? how can't you tell where people are shooting you from? that just means you lack skill....... if this game has a "UAV" where people are displayed when they shoot, i will not play, and lots of others wouldn't like it as well. i didn't say this game is like call of duty, maybe you just tunnel on what people are saying and don't comprehend, what i meant was the mini map would be exactly like cod if it were to show where enemy's are if the shoot, that would ruin this game. people like you shouldn't be commenting on where the game should go. you have no experience nor are any good to know.
PS. the mini map should show: 1) direct layout of the map 2) where you are, what way you're facing. 3) where your teammates are 4) where flags are dropped. 4) nothing about the enemy's location should be shown.
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*your fact is invalid.
This is not like cod in anyway im sorry the only way that it is, is that its a first person shooter. You must be too stupid to use different "strats" this is more fast paced. It can help people that cant use sound for some reason. If someones shooting at you it will be "oh hes over there" instead of "where the **** is he." less rage-> peace->chemical stops complaining that people are stupid because they don't agree with him and leaves-> happy days.
I guess it's your choice not to accept reality. If you think a game that's taken 15 years to get where it is will magicly re-invent itself overnight your sadly mistaken. If you had reading comprehension you would see that I said I think the idea would be great for the game.
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@deadyfroggy- I really do not believe that a "mini map" will not work for this type of game... I'm just laughing at what the game would look like if I imagined this game with a "mini map", LOL might as well play with wallhacks....
Simple reason: if this game has a "Mini map", it would make alot of players leave, due to knowning the exact place/time of a player in this game; Simplely because this game requires lining and constant shooting. On the contrary, in COD one does not simply gain high momentous speeds and escape death.
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In, most games that aren't retarded (I.E. CoD) the enemy only shows on the mini map if they are seen by a team mate. And since this games' field of view can be so large, I don't see this being a good idea.
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In, most games that aren't retarded (I.E. CoD) the enemy only shows on the mini map if they are seen by a team mate. And since this games' field of view can be so large, I don't see this being a good idea.
^
also a mini map could work, just not show enemys or anything that can help you pinpoint their location. but there would have to be a set maplist, cant make a mini map layout for 10k maps
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1ball achievement =]
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^
also a mini map could work, just not show enemys or anything that can help you pinpoint their location. but there would have to be a set maplist, cant make a mini map layout for 10k maps
Nice idea, how about a mini map that is divided into sectors(like COD ex:B4,C3) this would help out the new players with there recon skills because then a player will only need to tell a sector number or letter, thus the player can go to that area without trouble.
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I think single player/bots are probably a higher priority than this.
I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.
We should have a vote on what the people want because I'd almost guarantee they would vote for the LVL system over better bots.
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It just goes back to pleasing the core or trying to get new players. I wouldn't want to have to make that decision.
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It just goes back to pleasing the core or trying to get new players. I wouldn't want to have to make that decision.
The core is the heart of this game, if the heart dies, well we all know what happens. This will get new players and please the core of the players, because most new games have a level system, so players strive for more thus causing players to be attached to the game longer. As for single player mode, yea its important, but in reality it will not be helping players get into the matching sense and getting them more experience. Also like Clipz said about players getting better if they interact with other online players. Its the same thing in all games, for example: COD if you play online you are 10x better player then someone who plays offline, its a fact.
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I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.
We should have a vote on what the people want because I'd almost guarantee they would vote for the LVL system over better bots.
What people want depends on the people. I'm not sure the forums are an accurate representation of the active and potentially active player base. Lack of singleplayer/bots is the biggest reason for uninstalls. Not as many people are uninstalling because of a lack of a ranking/XP system.
The advantage of bots is that they can, if implemented well, help with server population and player activity. If you want to play a certain map/game mode, and nobody else is playing it, you might just not play, but if you can hop on a server and mess around with some bots for a bit, then other people join in, and once a couple active players are on, more people join in (seems to be how it works), soon you have a server full of real players, and you don't have to sit around by yourself just waiting until that happens.
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I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.
We should have a vote on what the people want because I'd almost guarantee they would vote for the LVL system over better bots.
Bots > anything else. AI leads to other types of gameplay = more players who stick around. Screw a level system; the player base is like 500 (if that) active people. Have fun having a level and finding a server matchable to other players your level when most of them will be low levels and then a few scattered players will be above and beyond. There will be less of a chance for you to find a pub then when they are locked based on level. This idea has flaws.
Bot AI all day.
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The core is the heart of this game, if the heart dies, well we all know what happens. This will get new players and please the core of the players, because most new games have a level system, so players strive for more thus causing players to be attached to the game longer. As for single player mode, yea its important, but in reality it will not be helping players get into the matching sense and getting them more experience. Also like Clipz said about players getting better if they interact with other online players. Its the same thing in all games, for example: COD if you play online you are 10x better player then someone who plays offline, its a fact.
Don't think bots just = single player campaign (which would be stupid for this game in all honesty). It would mean less empty servers, Horde mode, Endless possibilities.
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A level system would be great but an acceptable AI is way more important.
I don't think having bots is that big of a necessity... Players will get better playing actual live players, especially if they play and can see how the more advanced players play.
The problems is that not enough people give a excrement about this game to get better at it. There are rarely servers with enough players to have an enjoyable game. You might get one decent game before everyone disconnects.
A level system has absolutely nothing to do with getting better. Newbies can already see how advanced players play in pubs, and guess what happens? They constantly die and rage quit. I believe it would be much more beneficial if new players could join a "Beginner Server" with low skill bots and learn at their own pace.
I would much rather play a game against advanced bots rather than slaying newbies until they leave.
I would play this game a lot more if I didn't have to always join an empty server and wait 5 minutes for a person to show up.
Another point that was made in this thread is whether pleasing the "core" is more important than attracting new players. Stop fooling yourselves. The "core" died years ago. Just because some people talk on irc and post on the forums doesn't make them the "core". The majority of people that play this game are new players.
You guys really need to think what would benefit the game the MOST. Remember there is only one guy on the development team and it is QUAKE2 ENGINE.
Anyways, work is over time to go home.
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A level system would be great but an acceptable AI is way more important.
The problems is that not enough people give a excrement about this game to get better at it. There are rarely servers with enough players to have an enjoyable game. You might get one decent game before everyone disconnects.
A level system has absolutely nothing to do with getting better. Newbies can already see how advanced players play in pubs, and guess what happens? They constantly die and rage quit. I believe it would be much more beneficial if new players could join a "Beginner Server" with low skill bots and learn at their own pace.
I would much rather play a game against advanced bots rather than slaying newbies until they leave.
I would play this game a lot more if I didn't have to always join an empty server and wait 5 minutes for a person to show up.
Another point that was made in this thread is whether pleasing the "core" is more important than attracting new players. Stop fooling yourselves. The "core" died years ago. Just because some people talk on irc and post on the forums doesn't make them the "core". The majority of people that play this game are new players.
You guys really need to think what would benefit the game the MOST. Remember there is only one guy on the development team and it is QUAKE2 ENGINE.
Anyways, work is over time to go home.
great to see some pessimistic views on this game. Let me tell you something, the "core" are the people who match, the people who are the backbone off this game, you say that the "core" had died many years ago, no it has not; it has simple deteriated, but can be rebuilt.
By the looks of your comment, you either did not read what Clipz said, or misread and or concluded to a misconceptional thought of what Clipz has stated. The whole idea of the lvl system is so that new players will not need to match against experienced players, that's why the servers will be narrowing down the players by there level. If the single player/bots and this are combined=one of the greatest features ever to be implemented, it will solve most of the flaws of the level system that clipz brought up. Plus, the higher the level for a player, the more experienced that player will be, therefore more advanced players.
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So the core is the 10-15 players who still match? Matching isn't the backbone.
The point I am trying to make is that new players don't want to jump straight into matches before they even know how to play. There aren't enough players to narrow anything down.
I am not saying a level system is a bad idea, but there is only one developer. We are trying to convince him to work on the best possible thing for this game. I think an AI would benefit this game way more than a level system. The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now. It is inevitable that players will start to get interested in playing more competitively, we just have to get them to stick around long enough first.
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So the core is the 10-15 players who still match? Matching isn't the backbone.
The point I am trying to make is that new players don't want to jump straight into matches before they even know how to play. There aren't enough players to narrow anything down.
I am not saying a level system is a bad idea, but there is only one developer. We are trying to convince him to work on the best possible thing for this game. I think an AI would benefit this game way more than a level system. The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now. It is inevitable that players will start to get interested in playing more competitively, we just have to get them to stick around long enough first.
I see your point superman. Matching is defiantly not the backbone, but matching is the ONLY thing that makes gameplay worthwhile. Public servers, to me, mean nothing that much. Newbies don't care where they play, it's not like it 'counts' for anything anyway ;)
Here's my opinion:
A level system makes the game more worth while, compared to bots. Playing against bots just gets boring, playing to achieve goals and 'unlock' higher ranking is way more fun.
People would play pubs a lot more imo, if the time they spent on the pubs were worth while. People normally just play on pubs whilst they chillax, wait for a match, or hangout what's adding bots gonna help do to that? Give them things to chillax with? Idk. Point is, pubs would be more worth while thus more people playing pubs. So "The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now.", can be accomplished with a solid point for playing pubs in the first place - being the lvl system.
Thus making the lvl system higher priority.
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For one adding bots would guarantee that there is always a server for you to play in. It would also add tons of other options like single player missions or other game modes. I am sure it would also motivate people to start creating more of their own content, which is always helps strengthen the community.
I disagree when you say people normally play on pubs while waiting for a match. The percentage of people that match is very very low. Public servers are the game for most people. The competitive scene is never bigger than the casual one for any game.
The uninstall surveys also disagree. The number one reason why people uninstall is because of no AI/single player.
A level system would be a luxury, but AI is a necessity.
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So the core is the 10-15 players who still match? Matching isn't the backbone.
The point I am trying to make is that new players don't want to jump straight into matches before they even know how to play. There aren't enough players to narrow anything down.
I am not saying a level system is a bad idea, but there is only one developer. We are trying to convince him to work on the best possible thing for this game. I think an AI would benefit this game way more than a level system. The number of people playing in public servers should be the top priority for now. It is inevitable that players will start to get interested in playing more competitively, we just have to get them to stick around long enough first.
well, I see your point. AI are important, but there are flaws to it, are bots going to be shown up on the server browser list as players, or will they be not considered on the player list, in other words if there are 6 bots in a server, then will we be able to view the player (6/12) or will we get (0/12)? If we are able to see them in the players section in the server browser, then what happens if 7 players are trying to connect, will only 6 players be allowed to join and that 1 player that could not be able to join the full server will he have to join another server? Also, ultimately the maps will have to be reduced, inorder for a better bot implementation; due to it's limited ability.( I really don't know how much jitspoe can make the bots better or if it is even possible for the bots to strafe and etc.., so that bots could work with most-all maps). Will all servers have AI? That could be messy; it would distribute players into other servers.
If the bots don't show as players, then new players will not go into that server due to seeing that server not be active, and if they are, then players will have to wait till another player leaves, but to solve this, is it possible that the bot with the least kills be disconnected/or kicked automatically kicked, so that a player could join. As for the all servers having the bots, how about have certain amount of servers with the bots implemented, so NA would have three, then Euro should have x amount depending on the activity, and as the player activity increase; just increase the servers that have bots.
Just a general question: what happend to fourthx and Bain, they are both part of the development team right? It would be great if they came to help jits with this
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Here is what I would love to see:
It would work just like in TF2. There would be a server setting where you set the minimum number of players, say 6 for example. If no real players are on that server it would be 3v3 all bots. When a real player joins a bot disconnects, another player joins another bot disconnects. So if there are 6 real players there would be 0 bots. The server would never drop below 6 players. The bots would show up on serverbrowser.
Quake 2 had bots so I think jitspoe would just have to add the .nav function to the game. It probably isn't that simple though. Then anyone would be able to create their own .nav file/AI. One would have to be created for every map you want bots on. You should be able to load as many different AIs as you want into a single game.
It would be a server setting whether you want bots or not, up to server admin. I think it ties in perfectly with the ranking/certified server system too. New players will always have a pub available, but if they want they can join some kind of matchmaking queue and get a match will all real players (using certified servers, similar to CS:GO). Any matches played using matchmaking would count towards your rank, pub matches would not. Additionally all kills/caps/grabs/matches grant xp which would count towards a level like in COD.
I know that is a huge request, but it all ties in together. I think bots are the highest priority.
Not sure what they are up to, but I assume they either don't have time or aren't interested in helping.
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IMO: Bots are more important to implement than a level system is. But they are both great ideas to bring the game forward.
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great to see some pessimistic views on this game. Let me tell you something, the "core" are the people who match
I.E Senix and is baddy BR partner of the day.
Oh and did I forget the banned/evading players?
So much backbone.
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Not to be a smartass but I'm kind of amused here as people obviously want more players to be playing the game but I see people typing on this forum about ideas and some of them don't even play the game themselves anymore....If they were to start playing again it would be a little better at least in the matching scene.
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Not to be a smartass but I'm kind of amused here as people obviously want more players to be playing the game but I see people typing on this forum about ideas and some of them don't even play the game themselves anymore....If they were to start playing again it would be a little better at least in the matching scene.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing.
And as far as bots guaranteeing a server always open to play on? All it would do is piss me off personally, I have 0 interest in playing against bots. If I wanted to play single player games I would buy a sega genesis.
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You're not understanding that the bots are used as filler until real people join.. It's not 1 player campaign mode or anything.
It's better than sitting in an empty server.
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You do not understand that I do understand, I have no interest in filler.
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You do not understand that I do understand, I have no interest in filler.
what do you have intrest in then? Not trying to be rude or anything.
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I think the game is fine as is personally, I think it's unreasonable and outright crazy that Jitspoe continues to develop a 15 year old game (although I appreciate it). The fact that anyone still plays the game is amazing really, I can't think of any other 15 year old game I would want to play. The things I personally like about DP is that if you have 5 minutes to play or 2 hours it doesn't matter your experience is the same. Jit has a decision to make, he can do things to try to keep the current experienced players (since someone didn't like the wording core players) or bring in new players, ether way I personally understand.
None of my views are biased, I think jit should do whatever is in the best interest of his vision. I understand that the vision that myself and the ones involved enough to post in these forums might not be in the best interest in the overall game.
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one giant idea, look into advertising.
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Would it be an idea to let jits go with one idea (AI vs Lvl system) and then the people who wanted the other one would just have to wait. Yeah wait maybe even a couple years wait but I think both should be implemented and no matter how much time it took it would be worth it. People should get behind the developer and really push one thing at a time, stop discussing/ arguing either way and get on with one.
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I think the way forward would be, as Mission pointed out. Whatever the choice (AI or level system), jitspoe should do what he thinks fits the vision of the game.
We have to think about AFTER that idea is implemented. The way forward would be to get new players involved in the game. Personally, I think it would be easier to get new players interested with a solid competitive scene going on. :)
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one giant idea, look into advertising.
People keep saying that, but I don't think they realize how much it would cost (with traditional advertising mechanisms) to increase the player base any notable amount. The game already gets 300-500 downloads a day. Getting that many people to download the game via ads would probably cost hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. Per day.
I think the problem lies in getting people to stick around. Imagine the typical first time experience: jump on a speed server (since it's the one with the most players), get spawn camped for 5 minutes, and quit.
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hmm okay, but how can i/we help get these people to stick around? i don't like seeing this game how it is. i got some ideas that should be dealt with ASAP. i know you're busy but these should be priority.
- better gun models. (i just think they're outdated)
- better textures. ( which you've worked a lot on, i think the original textures should be deleted and that HR4 pack should just be the main texture pack.)
- set maplist. ( so the newer players play a set maplist over and over and will catch on to the gameplay and learn 10X faster)
- in-game friends list. ( add, delete, private message. things like that would help tons.)
- maybe a in-game talking feature? so people with mics/headsets can communicate.
cant really think of anymore off the top of my head. this is my opinion of what can help keep people around.
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Then also add to your list, gtfo speed servers. Yeah they're more cod like, but because you can't spawn anywhere and generally only in specific places, I'd be pretty irritated by spawn camping.
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Imagine the typical first time experience: jump on a speed server (since it's the one with the most players), get spawn camped for 5 minutes, and quit.
http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10132 :P
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Server owners should we all consider removing speed servers? Or do you think that would cause more players to quit?
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i agree, DOWN with speed servers UP with competitive servers! i miss the 30 - 60 sec respawn.
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I think if XP was only awarded for playing on standard respawn time servers, players would play on the speed servers a lot less.
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that's actually a good idea... it will make them choose, reward or no reward.
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Speed servers are fine, it's actually more entertaining for the current population. People hate waiting. When I play other games, my first time trying it I tend to play on speed servers as opposed to real-matchlike servers. Then, if I choose I want to go competitive, I start playing more on real-match setting servers.
The problem in speed servers isn't the revive time, it's the maps themselves. As noted above, other games with speed servers get around it by either having 1 of 2 options (often combined): Spawn points scattered in numerous areas so you cant spawn camp multiple spawns from 1 point. OR, having invulnerability for 2-3s after reviving.
It's not speed servers that ruin a game, there's far bigger problems. Speed servers do provide some benefit to games. Look at most internet based things today, people want speed. They want fast. Nobody is willing to wait around. Whether it be anything online. If you're new in a regular server and keep dying, you're not learning. People don't use the spectating function. I understand the logic against speed servers, and I agreed with it before, but that's because I'm an experienced player. Regardless, it's the maps fault allowing spawnkilling, not the server settings.
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I think if XP was only awarded for playing on standard respawn time servers, players would play on the speed servers a lot less.
+1
There is one more reason for that. People won't be able to reach levels too fast by camping and spawning (like on speeds). Levels will be more accurate to skills ;)
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I would agree with the ''level'' system but only when max level 999 can be reached, leveling up is EXTREMELY hard etc etc.
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Oh and by the way make this like;
The kills with PGP the MOST xp awarding,
The kills with autococker or automag the LESS awarding, this will make the game more and more challenging
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Or maybe.. Instead of the noobs getting spawncamped change the maps so the spawns are not in a spaen camping place. Then problem solved.
I would agree with the ''level'' system but only when max level 999 can be reached, leveling up is EXTREMELY hard etc etc.
or when you first get on the game you can only have a normal name. Once you get to level 100 or whatever you prestige then you are able to use symbols in your name. Prestige again you can use colors. Again you can use colour clan tags. Etc etc
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k lets not copy call of duty completely.
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I thought that's what localstats was for
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localstats can be hacked by using even Notepad
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real?
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yeah, thats why i called it localstats, to do it globally/without ability to change the data, you need to do it server side in the game code, and only jits has access.
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Im not i couldnt think of another word instead of prestige. Just it will get boring if you get to 99 and you cant do excrement still. Then you can prestige and have fun once again being able to access more stuff.
There could even be like a LoL type of advantage build up points and use a special grenade or something.
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The special grenade idea IMO would just give people at level 99 (pros) an even bigger advantage than they already have stomping newbies would be even more common.
Could be tempted instead to give people clan logos on jerseys (when that's implemented) or something that wouldn't give gameplay advantage; unless servers were to be restricted by what level you are.
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The special grenade idea IMO would just give people at level 99 (pros) an even bigger advantage than they already have stomping newbies would be even more common.
Could be tempted instead to give people clan logos on jerseys (when that's implemented) or something that wouldn't give gameplay advantage; unless servers were to be restricted by what level you are.
Then i would suggest NO maximum level exists in this game? How about an maximum level exists but those who achieved it can only get disadvantages? An LVL 1 should have for example more advantage than a LVL 99,
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so basically you're leveling up to get a disadvantage? that's stupid.
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The more this is talked about the more I start to not like it. I had a thought just now about how much I played tf2 when it was released. Then they started adding all this excrement to it and now I don't even recognize it as the same game. I liked it when it was simple.
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i feel the same way, like some of the suggestions are just like what? wtf? why?
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If we had enoug players to allow players to face opponents of their same experience that would be great.
Also I presume there will be no disadvantages or advantages from the level system given in matches.
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The more this is talked about the more I start to not like it. I had a thought just now about how much I played tf2 when it was released. Then they started adding all this excrement to it and now I don't even recognize it as the same game. I liked it when it was simple.
I know how you feel. I never really cared for TF2 to begin with, but with all the random crap they have in there now that gives people who have been playing longer better weapons and such, I have even less of a desire to play.
If this is limited to things that don't affect game play (adding colors to your name, customizing jerseys, and other things like that) as well as matching up people of similar skill levels, I think it would work well.
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I know how you feel. I never really cared for TF2 to begin with, but with all the random crap they have in there now that gives people who have been playing longer better weapons and such, I have even less of a desire to play.
If this is limited to things that don't affect game play (adding colors to your name, customizing jerseys, and other things like that) as well as matching up people of similar skill levels, I think it would work well.
Ye like custom ranknames and so on, that would make people play more for no reason :) i can't explain that but it just gives me the feeling that i want to play the game
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Superman will probably second me on this. But the stock weapons on tf2 are better 80% of the time. They balance the new items very well. The other 20% is only good if you can stand using a dumb gun. And it's not like it's pay to win, you get free item drops all the time.
just sayin
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Seriously. Listen to me younger want new. Younger people are our future. They want better games. Hence why you should implement this stuff that you say is useless pieces of crap. Future is better than being stuck in the past.
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I know how you feel. I never really cared for TF2 to begin with, but with all the random crap they have in there now that gives people who have been playing longer better weapons and such, I have even less of a desire to play.
Superman will probably second me on this. But the stock weapons on tf2 are better 80% of the time. They balance the new items very well. The other 20% is only good if you can stand using a dumb gun. And it's not like it's pay to win, you get free item drops all the time.
just sayin
Foxhound is right. There aren't any "better" weapons in TF2. Different weapons just allow you to change your play style.
In competitive TF2 there are a few weapons that aren't allowed though. This is up to the league admins and changes for every league: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_item_restrictions
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New doesn't = better
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deadfroggy you just don't understand..... all your comments are ridiculous, and your ideas are just so bad.
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deadfroggy you just don't understand..... all your comments are ridiculous, and your ideas are just so bad.
You just don't learn get to reality.
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deadfroggy you just don't understand..... all your comments are ridiculous, and your ideas are just so bad.
Well those are not rediculous,nor they are bad. Criticizing the ideas of someone is bad
Younger people are more imp. as they would keep the game alive. One day or other all the old players would stop playing.
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Well those are not rediculous,nor they are bad. Criticizing the ideas of someone is bad
Younger people are more imp. as they would keep the game alive. One day or other all the old players would stop playing.
its been like 6/7 years and im still playing this game lol, its about not how the game improves, its about if we get new skilled players and if they register forum accounts and discuss with us etc, will be more competive.
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Nothing Has changed in this game since build 35(when I started playing) Well it was great for me and amazing game but now I am getting bored. Now I have changed my view to Minecraft as it keeps on having new updates and it gets more and more interesting with each update. Some of the top features have ruled the top list in dp2 but never got implemented. I hv waited so long now that I am very inactive these days.
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lol you've been playing for less than a year. i've played since build 18 19?, we know how to get people to play. more than you deadfroggy or anyone that has only played since build 30 or so. Don't come on here and say that the newer players know whats best and know how to get people to play lmao, if it was up to you every server would be italy and shock 24/7 with 3 second revive.
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lol you've been playing for less than a year. i've played since build 18 19?, we know how to get people to play. more than you deadfroggy or anyone that has only played since build 30 or so. Don't come on here and say that the newer players know whats best and know how to get people to play lmao, if it was up to you every server would be italy and shock 24/7 with 3 second revive.
I'd agree. But I think what the other newer players are saying is, just because something worked 7 years ago, doesn't mean it would work now. Things move on, culture changes. Basically, don't ignore newer players and don't ignore older players.
'Old school' isn't that best. I can make that claim for sure. I played a few maps against older players that look sooo bad. I got told it was 'old school'. I can just imagine a new player joining and saying 'this doesn't look like paintball'.
Of course, what do I know, only been playing since last October, BUT, think it this way, I know what I was looking for when joining this game, I can REMEMBER what my first impressions of it were as well as my friends from other games and why they didn't want to play it.
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I asked my class to play dp2 as it is a good game,they played and just said they are not getting the game. Because pros killed them a lot. This is a good feature and would make almost all players very comfortable with the game. I'l wait until this gets implemented. And I guarantee this feature would get the game lots of players... and the craze of leveling up for higher rank and servers may make them to search on websites about tutorials on tricks.So we also need a great wiki for dp2 along with this feature
EDIT:Sorry for my last post I think that is because my game is not running and just expressed my rage xD
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pros kill them alot? LOL that's the worst excuse i've ever seen. this is why i hate some of the newer players, they quit because they can't catch up and have no desire to get better to be on the same level.
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why would they? when its a quake engine. They can buy better graphic games for 2$
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pros kill them alot? LOL that's the worst excuse i've ever seen. this is why i hate some of the newer players, they quit because they can't catch up and have no desire to get better to be on the same level.
I agree with Fox, why would they? This game just has way too much stuff to learn, especially in terms of maps. If I were a new player, I'd just go "Nah, not worth the time." and disconnect then download COD. If they did make it to the match scene though, every match would consist of random maps, people like Sequal raging/crying/whatever that kid does, trolling, camping (In a insta kill game I think it's stupid that you are allowed to camp) and people just leaving when they're losing. Eh.
++Award/Level System
++Limiting Official Maps
++Reconstructing Official Maps
--Chemical
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troll
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dunno why people are complaining about the graphics of the game... better graphic does not mean its automatically more fun to play.
and yes it is a one shot kill game, but its harder to kill someone in dp2 than in COD because of the bulletdrop and the physics imo.
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I's not complaining, it's the truth.
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- better gun models. (i just think they're outdated)
- better textures. ( which you've worked a lot on, i think the original textures should be deleted and that HR4 pack should just be the main texture pack.)
- set maplist. ( so the newer players play a set maplist over and over and will catch on to the gameplay and learn 10X faster)
- in-game friends list. ( add, delete, private message. things like that would help tons.)
- maybe a in-game talking feature? so people with mics/headsets can communicate
graphics aren't that bad tbh, might depends on the texture pack you have, that's why i suggested these
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When you can count the flat sides on the models while in game... you know its not a high graphic content game.
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how can we record it? Localstats? But my localstats are diff. because some of my names are deleted and my newest is warvolt. I wish some other ways to record
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i Remember showing my friend this game and hes straight out getting spawn camped. Then he goes intercourse this im playing cod or final fantasy or something. now i suggest chemical does something for the game since hes been around since "build 18 19?" and fix all the spawns. Message to Chef Killer and Terrorist Make sure people dont publish maps with straight spawns to prevent spawn killing.
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or or or or or, get rid of speed servers and make 20 sec respawn the lowest u can do. i prefer 60 but you new people can't handle being dead for 1 min. you can't cry and complain about spawn camping when all you do is play speed servers, lol. i go into speed servers to spawn kill, it's hella fun. i just hope it gets you guys sick of speed servers and we can go back 5 years to where pubbing was actually fun and took more skill. now its just oh i died 3 seconds late you're alive, how can you improve?
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Most newbies who go on speed servers don't care to improve. They just want to kill, kill, kill as many people as possible.
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Most newbies who go on speed servers don't care to improve. They just want to kill, kill, kill as many people as possible.
+1. They always do camping, spawnkilling and even just walk around and stare at you. They even walk against the walls. They try what you do, spamming and not even get better. BUT I think spawnkilling gather too much points lol
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Spawnkilling SUX. It's what makes newbies still newbies. That's why we should have less/no speed servers.
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just make 20sec revive the least you can do.
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just make 20sec revive the least you can do.
Chemical is right haha or make it 60.
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i always am.