Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: SmackWaters on September 02, 2006, 02:43:46 PM
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sorry for the cheesy title. :) anyways, my next map is, of course, construction. my main aim for this map was to focus on "breaking from the boxy maps" that i'm used to. And making terrain. Well it's sort of like two box maps merged together but whatever. The theme of this map is it's supposed to look like it's still under construction. it's a pretty fast action map, i was going for a pbcliffs/brainstorm feel, i of course need to add more routes, but i thought i would release a beta version first, to start getting some ideas. and yes i did download those new numbers
http://www.filefactory.com/file/5df77a/ (http://www.filefactory.com/file/5df77a/)
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Nice map, I liked it.
You did a good job on the walls and in the detail.
But there seems to be a very big problem... r_speeds.
I was hitting about 3000 r_speeds in some places :X and when i wasnt getting 3000 I was getting 1000.
Other than that, its a nice map.
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Ok, i have put together a beta version 2. New routes behind the bases, and the underground passage has 2 more entrances. Only one problem: vismap expansion overflow. :'( could anyone maybe take a look at it and see what i need to fix? I tried everything, adding new walls, doors, closing the grids in the river, nothing seems to work. Here is the map file if someone could please check it out. I really want to get this to work, it would make it about ten times cooler now that there is more than one route between the bases. Also, some shots. Note: i couldn't vis this map, so the shots are unlighted :P One more thing that's driving me crazy: WTH is a leafportal?? Every time i vis, along with expansion overflow, i get Warning: Leafportals saw into Leaf (###) or something like that. could that be another problem?
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Not really sure, but I think its a leak.
Search the forums, Im sure you'll find something.
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That's definitely not a leak. I believe that means that your VIS data is too large. It looks like it would be, too, that's a very open map. Try detail brushes at the doorways, and detail everything that doesn't block the player's sight significantly.
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Im a noob :(
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but i enjoy your lessons on how to map, im learning pretty fast
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a leaf has a bad portal that thinks it can see itself. Solution: go to the area named, look a the walls and floors, and see if they can be made more right-angled. Sometimes a HINT/SKIP brush across the area can help.
http://www.slackiller.com/tommy14/faq.htm
Caused by having too complex a brush--too many sides, weird angles. To fix, clip it in to 2 seperate ones, and or delete it and start over. This brush shouldn't be too hard to find, unless you have tons of complicated geometry in your map, and in that case, you've got bigger problems!
http://twhl.co.za/tutorial.php?id=107
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:9MUwXLRi96AJ:www.gamedesign.net/node/266%3FPHPSESSID%3D71381477caa5798035ee032406582524+leaf+portals+saw+into+leaf+quake&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=opera
(cached version of http://www.gamedesign.net/node/266 -- seems gamedesign.net is screwed up right now).
Basic summary: This error is caused when a leaf can see into itself, which should be impossible, but may happen due to either a bug in the compiler or screwed up geometry (ie: using csg subtraction a lot and other bad mapping practices).
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what is this detail thing, what does it do?
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In laymans terms, it makes vis ignore the brush and results in faster compile times but higher polygon counts.
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Though the 'higher polygon counts' are unnoticable if you detail something tiny, like a barrel. Detailing a wall of barrels, however, will be noticable.
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Very interesting map here. I still like it though.
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Very interesting map here. I still like it though.
Ok... I'm sorry but that made no sence to me :P
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lol what he means is he usually doesnt like interesting maps? :-\ ;) anyways, the detail seems to work, it compiles no error now, :D i'm gonna fix a few small detailing problems, and release a second beta version 8)
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wassap
i'm back with beta version 2~
changes i made:
- removed grid from river to allow for more open gameplay.
- added more routes behind the base
- expanded the underground digs
- added more signs for easier navigation between the bases :)
http://www.filefactory.com/file/468fda/ (http://www.filefactory.com/file/468fda/)
please post more comments, i'd like to know what more i can add to this map!
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http://dpball.com/files/maps/beta/construction_bv2.bsp -- the place you hosted it had so many ads I almost couldn't find the download link, so I mirrored it here. I also have it in rotation on the EV1 beta server.
- The cones around the flag are kind of annoying. They're easy to get stuck on, which could be really frustrating. At the very least, space them out a little and/or make them smaller. Possibly set the "mist" flag on them so they can be walked through.
- There's a set of water (underground) which isn't transparent, causing the lighting underneath it to be all black -- you should set the trans flag on it.
- The particles look weird.
- You need to work on your texture alignment, and wood textures should always run along the length of the board (rotate the textures on the bridge planks 90 degrees, for example).
- The layout looks a lot better than before. It has potential.
- Some of the structures are kind of weird and unrealistic. You might want to take a look at some real scaffolding or other things seen at a construction site for inspiration.
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what do you mean by, the particles look weird? also, i will try to fix the things you mentioned. :)
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I think he is talking about those water-like (not sure what they are) particles on the underground.
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There are water like particles on the ground. And i didnt say that i dislike interesting maps.
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http://www.filefactory.com/file/2dabec/ (http://www.filefactory.com/file/2dabec/)
beta version 3, here are the changes i made:
- cones are now mist.
- white flag in 1 flag mode now has a 'base' on the center bridge (doesnt really make a difference, just looks cooler)
- removed underground particles.
- fixed underground water
- lowered windows slightly in the barriers, so it's easier to shoot out of them
- aligned textures on bridge
- added more weapon, barrel, and hopper spawns
- fixed "burnt out" light underground
enjoy!
P.S.
Very interesting map here. I still like it though.
I know it was an innocent mistake, but it sounded like you were saying "Even though this map is interesting, i still like it."
therefore we deduced that you don't normally like interesting maps.
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http://dpball.com/files/maps/beta/construction_bv3.bsp
Swapping it in rotation on the beta server.
Edit: I noticed the r_speeds are really high for the amount of detail in the map. Did you do a full vis on this or just a fast vis? If it was a full vis, just how much did you detail? None of the main walls, I hope. Using gl_showtris 1, it seems the majority of the map is visible from any location -- even some of the underground areas! You might be able to improve this by using hint brushes around all of your openings to help vis divide the map up better. You might also try offsetting some of the openings so that you don't have a view clear across the map.
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I know this would be kind of hard, but I would like to see those underground walls more "natural".
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yeah, i will probably put that in beta version 4, i think it's a little odd that people could dig perfectly square. actually, i don't think it would be that hard.
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http://dpball.com/files/maps/beta/construction_bv3.bsp
Swapping it in rotation on the beta server.
Edit: I noticed the r_speeds are really high for the amount of detail in the map. Did you do a full vis on this or just a fast vis? If it was a full vis, just how much did you detail? None of the main walls, I hope. Using gl_showtris 1, it seems the majority of the map is visible from any location -- even some of the underground areas! You might be able to improve this by using hint brushes around all of your openings to help vis divide the map up better. You might also try offsetting some of the openings so that you don't have a view clear across the map.
i realized that i only fast vised the map. would full vis fix this?
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It should certainly help. Adding some hint brushes should also help.
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how exactly would i use these hint burshes? you mention placing them around openings. by that, do you mean the doorways between the sections, as well as the doorways to the underground?
vis takes as long as hell to compile, will this make it faster? it was like 1. . .2. . .3. . .4. . .5. . ._ stayed on 5 for like an hour.
[edit] ok... since no one replied i made (yes i know) a sad attempt at hint brushes. I also misaligned the doors a little, maybe it would help :P. i also added some more paintball spawns. :) anyways, here is the beta version 4 of construction.
http://www.filefactory.com/file/66dd41/ (http://www.filefactory.com/file/66dd41/)
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If you're making a large (especially open) map, you'd better get used to long VIS and RAD compile times.
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yeah, i wish there was a faster way to do it without reducing the quality
by the way, that gl_showtris thing doesnt seem to work.
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Post removed
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that was a joke right
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It doesn't work in multiplayer. Type "deathmatch 0" at the console before loading the map.
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beta version 5. new building, ramp, fixed a few things and added a few more things. also supports elim mode now. Fun!
http://www.filefactory.com/file/d23017/
(http://www.filefactory.com/file/d23017/)
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Lookin great... played this one this morning on the beta test server I believe or the prior version... fast and fun.
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Did you add the hint brushes and do a full vis? It still looks like some areas are visible that shouldn't be when showtris is enabled. In the screenshot below, for example, the underground area should be completely cut off from just about everything, yet it still shows up, and while you're inside of it, you can see other parts of the map that are completely out of view. Try putting a hint brush in the opening, something like this:
___________
| |
| H I N T |
|_________|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|_________|
| (water) |
|_________|
Also make sure you don't have any major structures detailed -- walls and such. I think the archways along the water are causing a lot of vis problems, too, as you can see through the whole map from there. If you closed those up a bit or added some solid structures to block the view, it would probably help things a lot.
Being nitpicky, there are still quite a few texture alignment opportunities. The light in the screenshot for example... Also, the wood grain should always go along the length of boards. You fixed the tops of some of them, but the sides are wrong, and there are a bunch of boards stacked up in the bases that have the grain going along the short side. It just looks weird. It would look better to angle the textures on the side of the ramp boards, too.
The new version is up in rotation on the beta server: paintball2://216.127.68.86:27919
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Z0MG!2!@!21@1#!2!ZAT W4Z A L0NG C0MP1L3!!@!@@#@32!!@1212!@!@!@!@@ONE!@!@1!!2
~construction beta version 6~!
thats right, i finally waited out the long compile, (just under an hour and a half) i thought it was gonna be longer. the result is beta version 6, a much less laggy version. However, besides compiling, i also added several more things...
- Revised arch over river, it is now a smaller door instead of a large arch so you can't see the whole map from there.
- the new building from the last beta version now serves a purpose: you can now enter the stone wall from the back door of the house. A quick route to the center, or to the base
-fixed various texture alignment problems
here is the new link:
http://www.filefactory.com/file/846dd8/ (http://www.filefactory.com/file/846dd8/)
and some shots:
(#1) I fixed the alignment on the lights
(#2) New path inside the wall
(#3)One of the laggyest places on the map is reduced to just over 1700 wpolys (previously over 4000 :o)
(#4)Revised river
P.S. The reason the numbers are painty again is because i took the screenshots on my computer instead of my parents' (mine doesnt have internet) :'(
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I like the map more and more :D
The Riverway is better in bv6, but i think it can be closed completely or put there the lattice form bv1. Thats the best, i think. And what is with the endings of the river? In bv1 there are cool, but now ?
And a missing texture:
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oh that's just a shadow. and about the ends of the river, the other ones caused too much lag.
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The r_speeds are much better now. I generally just do full map compiles overnight so I don't have to wait for them to finish. Sometimes they take a while. The epoly (entity polygon count) is still kind of high, though. You might want to see about reducing the number of entities visible in one area.
The light alignment is better, but it's still off. It might be really noticeable with high res textures. Rather than try to eyeball it, it's best to just use a grid size that matches the texture (either 8 or 16), align the brush on the grid, and you won't even have to do any texture manipulation (just use the 1.0 scale and 0 offset). If the brush isn't exactly where you want, you can lock the texture (alt-l) and move it.
Now on to more nitpicky stuff:
- Less_Laggy.JPG: The textures on the pile of boards and 2 sides of the blue base need to be rotated (same on the red side).
- The sides of the piles of 3 boards (the ones with the angled ends) need to be rotated.
- The sides of the top of the bridge in the base need to be rotated.
- The brushes in the water passage are slightly misaligned (see screenshot) and stick out about an inch -- enough to get stuck on. You should always use a reasonably sized grid so this type of thing doesn't happen. It increases polygon counts and is frustrating for the players who get stuck.
Once again, I have it up on the beta server if anybody wants to play test it. I've also uploaded it to http://dpball.com/files/maps/beta
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This should be the final version, unless there's something i seriously have to change. and not texture alignment. :P
First of all, download construction_final_play if you intend to play the level only.
If you want to edit the level in bsp or whatever, download construction_final_full.
and if you want to try a random level i made that actually kind of sucks, get crush.
Have fun! I'm gonna post some screenshots.
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Do you wish for this map to be ran on the servers?? If so, then why don't you name the map construction.bsp instead of construction_thisisthelastone_Imeanit_itreallyisthe_FINAL.bsp... Same thing with outdoorz2.
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it's only called construction_final
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Well, since you didn't answer my question completely I'll take that as you do NOT desire me to upload your maps in their so called final state to the GRaFFiTi servers.
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oooooooh!!!! you didnt mention that!!!!! ::) well i can say go ahead if you want, it doesnt matter much to me
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Do you wish for this map to be ran on the servers?? If so, then why don't you name the map construction.bsp instead of construction_thisisthelastone_Imeanit_itreallyisthe_FINAL.bsp... Same thing with outdoorz2.
OOOooooo But I DID mention this.... LOL I've downloaded them both and will take a look at them as soon as I can and then I may upload them to the servers.
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new screens!
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Looks good, apart from the last two screens. Those alone insure this'll never be a widely-played map. ;)
Jk, but I haven't actually played it yet.
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Wow, I hope Jitspoe lets us modify those homemade textures.
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...that brings up how custom textures for maps will be monitored.
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what u gonna do to the textures, lol :-[ >:(
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I'm going to PhotoShop in a goat raping SoggyWaffles. That kid looks like a freak (no offense :))
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Delete them. You should also make your own folder for custom textures. Putting them in textures/pball is bad.
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Post removed