Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: Silly on March 18, 2007, 09:21:41 PM
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Hey. I have made adjustments throughout this map. Details will be listed below.
Attachment at bottom of post
Ennnnjoy!
tunnels_b5 edites
- Made bases different
- Made platforms in big tunnel
- Made adjustments to top routes and tunnels to them
i got some screenies
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/dogbert_animator/b51.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/dogbert_animator/b52.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/dogbert_animator/b510.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/dogbert_animator/b54.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/dogbert_animator/b55.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/dogbert_animator/b59.jpg)
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try not to make one path maps, one path is in, only one way to get to the flag
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Alrighty, i will try to make a second that could be straight to the flag
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As Spook stated, the map needs more paths. Not just to the flag, but in general. Also, you need to work on your visuals a bit to help make the map look more convincing. The walls are large, flat, and square, when they should look more like rocks. The trees look really fake (it's almost impossible to make good looking trees out of brushes, so it's best to just not have them at all). The colored tiles all over the tunnel are way too bright. I'd use a different texture and maybe have a small strip of them along the sides to indicate the colors. I like how the area above the tunnel looks, though.
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very small, too pllain, little cover, only one way, very small, and needs more tunnels to be called "tunnels", hense the "s"
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I like how the tunnels look, personally- but I agree with jits and spook, the layout needs work.
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i like the jump =]
+ side to everything
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lmao thanks spook.
Well i cannot make the map anyway longer, cause it would exeed the limit. But i could make it Wider. I will try to stick in some more paths, i will loose the trees. All the stuff that you guys said i will try to make better and add.
Thanks a lot guys
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there shouldnt be boundaries, they hold back making really big and cool DM maps
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you haven't seen many dp maps have you?
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Wolf Man:
No i would like to make it longer, its just on BSP there is a certain area were you cant go any farther.
Lekky:
Who are you talking to me or him?
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i know theres boundaries to the map, im saying they should make them bigger or get rid of em
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you cant get rid of the boundries in bsp, at least i dont think you can
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no, not by yourself, they should make the next bsp version (if there will be one ever) hav boundaries that can be set by the mapper, they need to make it so more entities can be added too.
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The boundaries are a limitation of the engine and how it transmits entity data, not the map format.
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i know that, why cant they just make the boundaries larger than? they dont even really matter, you onlyy see the map alone anyway. the boundaries are too small anyway.
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...what? What are you even proposing at this point?
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im as lost as your are eiiiiiiii
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He wants to do away with the +/-4096 map size limit, I believe. It's not as simple as just "removing the limit". The compilers, map format, and game network protocol all have to be rewritten or tweaked to support larger boundaries, not just the map editor (which I think supports larger bounds already). It also means more data has to be transferred, and thus more potential lag (especially for dialup users).
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Besides bigger maps arent even that good. If a map is really long and wide, it sucks unless it has more than 10 people in it
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looks decent i think it needs more detailed brushes. thats more work but it looks better in the end.
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there should be a larger entity limit then
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Hey! Well i have a map, that i started a long time ago, but never really did an effort to finish it. I have done some touching up and here is the latest copy, Tunnels Beta 4
http://www.savefile.com/files/676038
Any errors on the map that you can see please post them so i can fix, and if you have any comments or suggestions please post them here :)
I will also add all of the following equipment:
Gun: Carbine
C02: 20oz (not loaded)
Hopper: 200
Ammo: 200
Barrel: Bronze
Thanks a lot guys
*Edit
Iv attatched it for anyone who cannot upload it
-Silly
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Yes y00tz, i did not mirror the sides. If you can find them out, each side has its advantages and disadvantages. i don't know if you can jump into the hole, i never really intended it to be jumped into. Plus, there would be no reason why you would, unless you want to camp/spray.
And yes, i have not added c02 yet, as you can see on the first post, i will be adding it either next beta or the beta after that.
Your comments are, as usual quite helpfull. Thanks a lot y00tz
- Silly
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I've attached a demo of things that need revising. Here's a quick list, too:
- Needs more paths. It's still essentially a 1-path map. Most players won't be able to do the trick jumps to get to the high path, and even if they do, they will have to take the main path out after grabbing the flag.
- Spawns need to face the other way.
- Blue sometimes spawns in red base.
- Spawn equipment isn't consistent (I see you're going to change that, but you shouldn't release a beta until you've gotten that stuff straightened out).
- Walls are bland and need some work.
- Need to fix that grass wall in the base as well.
- Ramp above the red base has a platform. Blue does not.
- Sky walls on high path of red base let you see through and look bad. This looks to be fixed in the blue base.
- Gotta get rid of those ugly lollipop trees.
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Off topic: How do you record a demo and run a demo?
On topic: I love the trees... I was going to suggest that you make giant bananas out of brushes too... :P
Cheers,
y00tz
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record <name>
play <name>
Theres also arecord, but I cant remember if Jitspoe added it for build 17.
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record <demoname>
demomap <demoname> (or load it through the play recorded demo menu).
Edit: Cobowned, but play is for wav files, not demos. :)
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Jits:
Yes, the red base does have a platform, this is because if i did not make a platform, players would not be able to make the jump, ( it is about 6-8 64 sized squares difference from blue ). That is the reason why i have the platform.
Why does the grass ramp have to be fixed? Unrealestic?
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Ever seen grass grow at 90 degrees? :) Just use a different texture on the side.
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I guess even if gameplay isn't, the look should be real...
And thanks about the demo, I figured out how to stop recording...
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:P okay jits. I killed the tree's aswell. I will fix the ledge for you too :P.
So do you agree with the platform?
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Edit: Cobowned, but play is for wav files, not demos. :)
I was testing you, Jitspoe. ;)
Looks like you pass, once again, but next time you wont get so lucky!
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I was going to ask for you to upload for Zorch, but you got it, great.
:D
Looks good. But I would definitely add more paths and obstacles.
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Yeah, i am working on the beta 3, i have added a giant underground tunnel from which you can enter easily from each base.
But, since i have pretty much a whole open area (where the popsicle trees were) what should i put there?
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But, since i have pretty much a whole open area (where the popsicle trees were) what should i put there?
Bunkers, boxes, barrels, a river, a guy in a block of ice (http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=5705.msg66124#msg66124), it's all up to you.
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Yeah, i am working on the beta 3, i have added a giant underground tunnel from which you can enter easily from each base.
But, since i have pretty much a whole open area (where the popsicle trees were) what should i put there?
Most of that area was completely unused to begin with. There wasn't much reason to go over there or to the right of the tunnel. You could probably get rid of a bunch of that area and improve the r_speeds, or better yet, rework it to add a second path from the center tunnel to the flag.
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I have made another path way, but its just a hole that you jump down into to get to the bottom path.
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What's the ETA on Beta 3?
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what is ETA?
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ETA=Estimated Time of Arrival
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err i dounno :P
buttt, i do know that i have another beta!!!
yay! :):)
Linky!
http://www.savefile.com/files/673079
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Haha, so the ETA is right now :P
Thanks
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You start with a Carbine, and at the top of the grass/wood ramp, there is a Spyder. In my experience a Carbine has always been better than a Spyder... Perhaps put a better gun? I believe Automag and Autococker are the only better ones...
But I like it, although the jumps are pretty tough and the lighting could be better in the holes that you fall down.
Nice work Silly
Cheers,
y00tz
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Well, some of the show off's like to go PGP, well they can go Spyder now!! hehe naw, i just made that up. I just put it there too have an option.
The lighting in the holes, i think arent that bad but if anyone else wants it too be better than ill change it.
:p yeah some of the jumps are tough, its proably going to be real good for match play because of its speed and all the shortcuts you can take
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The lighting in the holes, i think arent that bad
It's not bad, but maybe you could make the entire tunnel dark, or just the bottom? Right now it's the middle that is dark, which is odd.
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Well, i dont know how that happend :P ill fix it in the next beta
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You really need to find some way to balance the path lengths out a bit. Somebody could probably be in your base and back before you got to theirs taking the low tunnel (man, that thing is massive, haha). I've uploaded the map to the beta server if you want to test it online.
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hehe yeah! the low tunnel is HUGE! but, it is also a decision. If you want to go the route, were most people arent, and you have the flag AND you have enough skill to make that jump, then the bottom route would be faster.
The top route would be faster in the beginning , but it would be like shazam33, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of getting shot on the bridge IF you go to the top way. its pretty much the same idea with this map too
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Well, i fixed the lighting, the tunnel on the other side is sapose to be dark, if your blue/red you will not be able to see the enemy as well. Reason why the other is lighted, is because if you make the other jump, it is more of a reward, make the jump, dont get killed as easily (if someone on the other team jumps in it when ur halfway up). In this case, if u dont make the jump, you simply look down and shoot if there is a guy below you.
New beta linky
http://www.savefile.com/files/676038
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I was going to post yesterday after I finally downloaded and played b4.
What I noticed:
-The shadows/lighting in the tunnels is different for each.
-I punched my monitor because I always miss the jump to the top of the tunnel, resulting in an ER visit.
-It's not really worthwhile to run up the long ramp, except as a last resort in a defensive situation.
Lookin' good though
Cheers,
y00tz
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I did some timings:
14s - main path through tunnels
21s - high path, dropping down to the flag
25s - low tunnel, short ladder
28s - low tunnel, long pole ladder
As you can see, it takes twice as long to take the low path. If you ended up on this path, somebody could do an entire flag run through the main path in the same time it took just to get to theirs. You need to balance that out a bit more or else everybody will always take 1 path. My suggestion would be this:
Split the map up into 2 paths. One that goes to the low tunnel (basically what you have currently), and another that wraps around (maybe you could make use of the ramp to the spyder) and goes to the high tunnel path. I've attached a really crappy sketch to point out what I mean. Hope you can follow it (man, I hate ball mice).
Also, you need to work on making the walls look more natural. Throwing in a couple extra brushes and using clipping planes at various angles can do wonders for making the level a little more convincing. Take a look at bombsaway (http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=1171.0), for example.
Also, I'd suggest using sun lighting instead of light fixtures. It's a day time sky, and in some areas, I can see the sun, but it's pitch black (second shot).
As usual, the map is up on the beta server for play testing.
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please may i have that crosshair
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It comes with the build 17 update.
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ehh, jits i cant follow that picture :P but i think i understand what u are saying.
the ramp infront of the base flag should have an opening that wraps around the map. But, i think that it would take longer to go through there. Unless i made another fast tunnel. Do you think i should make the wrap around tunnel to the other base, or do you think i should make the opening where the big popsicle tree's usto be
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The time taken to walk up the ramp would balance out the time taken to climb the ladders from the lower tunnel. If you pulled it off correctly, the times would be about equal. You don't have to use the ramp. That was just a suggestion. You could just make a path that goes around. Whatever you do, you basically have to make it take twice as long as it does now.
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Why not make the sweet red and blue tunnels longer by having them curve multiple times..
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if i were to do that, i would have to reconstruct the whole upper level. Perhaps in a later version of Tunnels. i think i will do what Jits was suggesting
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Yeah I'll admit that it was 50% real suggestion and 50% showing off to Jitspoe how much more time I have :P
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haha, yea i got a new map. Sorry for saying i was back, then i left again:P.
Anyway, heres one of my favorite maps...
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bsp??
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is it not the right kind of file?
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How about some screen shots?
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That is a BSP, just the .bsp extension is removed. And I think there's already a map called tunnels. Or several.
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Shouldn't this be something like Tunnels_b3?
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Tunnels was always made by me. Yes it is b3, but its already been exported. I will attach another file. (better)
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No, it can't be b3.
I have this, but the versions are all different to your map from the first post.
ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/Maps/beta/tunnels_b1.bsp
ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/Maps/beta/tunnels_b2.bsp
ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/Maps/beta/tunnels_b3.bsp
ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/Maps/beta/tunnels_b4.bsp
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wiat, how did my map get on the otb server
edit.
And yes, i did change more of it. Thats why its another beta. I think that it will be the last..
is Jits around?
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I will download when this is more organized.
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naw its all good. You can download it, check it.
ill will export it again and name it properly when i get more feedback
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I've merged your topics since it's about the same map.
- Top path is still unbalanced - one side has a ledge, the other doesn't. Also in the middle, one side has a ramp and the other doesn't.
- You've added more paths, but the center tunnel is still by far the fastest - not really any reason to take other paths.
- You might want to rotate the textures either on the bottom/top of the tunnels or the sides so everything is a bit more continuous.
- Rock brushwork is really bland. Everything is flat with 90 degree angles. Play with clipping planes. A couple different angles and added detail can make a huge difference.
- Rock textures aren't consistent. That ramp in the base looks really out of place.
- Base looks like it would be too easy to "camp". Alternative routes take too long and require difficult trick jumps.
- I'd put jump pads or something on that bottom tunnel. Even if you hit the high ladder, it takes a long time to go that route.
- Lighting is kind of bland (in the tunnel areas).
- Why is the map called Tree.bsp? You should really continue the beta sequence so there aren't all kinds of different versions of the same map floating around with different names.
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Thanks jits!
Just one comment,
The reason why people wouldent want to take the middle path of the map, is cause there would be many people going through it at once. You would get killed very fast.
I have to go to have dinner.
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True, but if you don't take the middle path, and somebody on the other team does, then they'll get your flag much faster and possibly cap it before you even get to their base, so basically everybody will want to be in the middle path to make sure nobody from the other team gets through it.
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Yes, but if you take the high path, and you see the person going through, you follow them and hunt them down.
Also, if everybody takes the middle path, that will create faster elim, as i stated before.
If the team has any type of brain, then they will divide themselves. I know if you were playing, or if spook or cola or anyone of that matter, would take the highpath, whilst the noobs kill themselves.
Also, there are the base campers involed in this. Trust me, i have though of this many times.
Also
I dont want to sound like i am trying to cut corners or anything, but there is a reason why the two bases have uneven start points
One base has the harder to get to path, but this path is also alot quicker to get to if you make it to it.
While the other path is easy to get too, but longer to get to the base.
See where im coming from?
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Well, if you're going to make it different, make it different. Currently it looks like you tried to mirror the map and made some errors.
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Alrighty, i have edited to what you have suggested.
Just wanna say, thanks alot jits. Throughout my mapping you have been extremly helpful
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picky* =]
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Lol what does picky mean?
or you mean jitspoe is picky? :P
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He means picky in place of helpful...
Spook knows I disagree about how important minor details are, so I'll just smile and nod... :D
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haha!
Well details are important.
Come on!!
One whole day of zero comments.
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If you want my opinion here it is:
Drop it, start a new map, hopefully better, because this one pretty much sucks :)
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screw u magal. Your just pissed cause i left your dumb clan.
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Actually thats the only reason I like you ;)
Silly, look at some good maps and compare..or dont if you dont want to face the reality.
There are indeed much worse maps released every week, but what I'm saying is that if you want to make a good map, start over a new one..because this one is horrible.
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Thats not what others say...
Get out of my thread
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ok, Silly - magalhaes might have put it a little harshly, but what he says does have a ring of truth. Thats not a comment on this map in particular, but I know from personal experience that its difficult to recognise when a map is spiralling, and is a bit of a waste of time. don't take it as an insult, just learn where you went wrong and do it even better next time. It can be hard to let go of a map you've put a load of work into, but if it has too many problems that can't be fixed because it'd be a huge amount of work then it'd be better just to start an even better map. Magalhaes makes a good point too, look at other sucessful maps to see what they do right and learn from them.
earlier in the thread you've said stuff that makes me think you do get what can make a map great, so take all that stuff and make us a really good map. :)
Dag
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Yeah I agree.
For example, Brasinstorm by Jitspoe, it is a great map but it's too big. Don't try to match 2vs2 on that map..
Great map tho :D
Well...Silly you did a good job :D
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Somebody keeps switching to this map on the beta server, so I figured I'd post some feedback on it again. I'm not sure if Silly is still working on it. My main complaint right now is that it hurts my eyes to play. The area just outside the main tunnel is like all super bright yellow. It's lit with big lights, but it's day time, so that's kind of pointless. I'd take those out (or at least dim them) and use sun lighting. There are no shadows cast from the sun. The lighting in the upper areas of the tunnel is OK, but there are several misaligned light brushes there. Also, the map is mostly mirrored, but with slight differences that probably make it unbalanced (one side has a ramp on the upper platform, but the other does not, etc.).
The bottom path is more of an annoyance than anything, especially since that bridge thing has holes in it that drop all the way down. While we were playing, I witnessed a new player on our team wander around the bottom area trying to figure out how to get out as the other team captured the flag. He climbed almost all the way up the wooden pole, then fell back down and wandered around some more. Maybe it could work with a big jump pad, but ladders are far too slow and lead to the same room as the main tunnel, so there's not much of a benefit to it.