Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: QueeNiE on September 24, 2007, 10:18:18 PM
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how about some preview screenshots
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...the r_speeds on this map are way, WAY too high. You really VIS maps before you release them. I would seriously consider pulling this and fixing the map up before releasing it.
Also, betas are nice for just sorting out problems. Like leaks that would cause VIS to not work.
EDIT: Models really should go in the model folder, too. Otherwise exploits might be possible- not in this case, but in others. It's a good rule of thumb.
EDIT2: Making an easily accessible 'secret' room full of autocockers doesn't make the game as even as it could be.
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i agree with Eiii's comments, also, why do you have FourthX's graffitti from ub_rooftop seemingly applied to the skybox outside your map?
- Rick
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It says 'THX 4THX', so I assume he helped or something.
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lol i doubt fourthx would help with any map that even remotely resembled propaint legacy.
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Way to spoil the easter egg. What's with the new models? Is it some model that loads up for this map, sorta like a lot of CS servers do?
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**NOTE** it includes a player model that should be extracted to C:Games/Paintball2/Pball/Players/
EDIT: Models really should go in the model folder, too. Otherwise exploits might be possible- not in this case, but in others. It's a good rule of thumb.
So, where should the models go? I don't want it to be mistaken as modified content or something.
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To see the easter egg queenie put in, they have to go in the players folder- but for some odd reason, queenie made them need to be in the players folder. It's not a problem in this case, just kind of annoying.
It won't be mistaken as modified content, I believe.
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So what are the models for? Anyone wanna load up a pic for us all to see?
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The new models are for the Doom Character in the secret room trapped in an ice block, its just for show and something no other map has.
And yeah the r_speeds are really high but the over all map is nice.
And QueeNiE you give FourthX credit but not me, I helped you with some idea's you very *friendly* person !
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And yeah the r_speeds are really high but the over all map is nice.
:-\
I have a feeling it could be greatly improved in almost every respect if it were public beta'd. And the suggestions were listened to, of course.
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I have a feeling it could be greatly improved in almost every respect if it were public beta'd. And the suggestions were listened to, of course.
Agreed.
But everyone has there own way of doing things.
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if fourthx really did help with the map then it wouldnt have high r_speeds.... end of story.
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if fourthx really did help with the map then it wouldnt have high r_speeds.... end of story.
Not really sure why I'm mentioned in the map, but yeah the r_speeds would not have made it past me.
FtX
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Character in the secret room trapped in an ice block, its just for show and something no other map has.
Why does everyone nick Zorch's ideas? :P
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Why does everyone nick Zorch's ideas? :P
Everyone's ideas get nicked.
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'Specially Nick's.
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Do you know what I hate? People who jump to conclusions. I couldn't even post to clear things up because I was at school.
1: Fourthx did NOT help. I attempted to copy+paste the dpball logo on one of my walls from ub_rooftops. It didn't look good so I just deleted it. Maybe I accidentally copied twice or something and something appeared outside of the map.
2: Also, even if the r_speeds are "high" (which they aren't really) you don't lag. its like 3000 MAX for r_speeds. And thats if your trying to find a place where you get bad fps.
Really wasn't hoping for this to et out of hand again.
Was hoping you guys could all calm yourselves and not wet your pants.
wait a day, see the screenshots, and realize that everything is just fine and dandy in the land of the gumdrop trees.
And Eiii, how isn't it VIS'd?
I see shadows..
also, where is this skybox? I can't find it :P
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3000 max? it took me about 3 seconds to find a spot where it is 3800+. And the point of searching high and low for spots with bad r_speeds is so that your map plays smoothly uniformly for everyone, no matter where you are in the map, at all times.
please address the constructive criticisms this map has gathered so far, such as:
- poor r_speeds for a map with so little detail (aka bad design with respect to VISing)
- unbalanced gameplay (in particular the 'secret' room).
- directory structure for models (or even have them in at all, seeing as it isn't an original idea, its a complete non-sequiteur, and the colour palette isn't even right for DP.
- the FourthX texture anomalies need to be removed.
- the barrels in the red base are texture misaligned on the sides.
- Equipment pickups are very sparse, even though you spawn with loads im sure a few CO2's and such scattered around wouldn't go amiss.
Good luck,
Dagless M.D
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- unbalanced gameplay (in particular the 'secret' room).
How do you even get in there the entrance won't open.
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It's a trigger.
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Picky picky.
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To get into the secret room you have to shoot the trigger. You can see in the pic that it's located on the base of the ramp below flag 1 in either base. If you still don't get where it is, watch the demo.
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8488/sshot023hd3.jpg)
(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9382/sshot027pd7.jpg)
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Oh, your cool.
Your like those people who try to be peoples friends by finding an exploit about them. Then they tell everyone to try and get more friends.
very cool indeed.
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Too bad you didn't tell me it, I found it. Thats what you get for putting exploits into maps. Sorry champ.
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Im with you queenie. this is no different than the carp secret room or the indune teleport. Itll take ppl like 2 days to all know about it...
You act like a room of autocockers is an exploit. anyone with an IQ above 0 can find the room just by pubbin im sure.
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Then what's the big deal with me showing it to people?
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There shouldnt be one. Lol all you have to do is go noclip to find it.
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And Eiii, how isn't it VIS'd?
I see shadows..
Vis does not mean light. Mind explaining to me how THIS is vis'd? :P
PS: looking at a wall. And r_speeds of 3000 are high, especially on a map like this.
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Clearly Flame, you ought to know that just because you no clip to the room doesn't mean you know where the trigger is. Finding the trigger is the hard part. But another nice attempt at trying to sound like a smart DP player.
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Why does everyone nick Zorch's ideas? :P
Haha. Actually, I was kinda throwing that idea out there. Thought it might be kinda neat if someone incorporated it into a map.
'Specially Nick's.
I'm just that good. :D
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3000 max? it took me about 3 seconds to find a spot where it is 3800+.
I spawned at 3870.
I took a step back, 3992.
That is ridiculous. I find few areas where the r_speeds are under 1k.
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The red side barrels are BROKES.
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As long as the r_speeds arn't in the red zone I'm happy.
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Clearly Flame, you ought to know that just because you no clip to the room doesn't mean you know where the trigger is. Finding the trigger is the hard part. But another nice attempt at trying to sound like a smart DP player.
Once again who are you?
It wont take more than some pub players lucky shot to realize how to open the door. You also act like its some big secret. Grow up DaRkNeSS... everyone already knows how to open it and if someone asks people will tell... its fair. stop rippin Queenie because hes better at mapping and you dont like the attention hes getting.
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Heh, I don't see any positive posts in this thread.
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WHOAH FLAME... Darkness has a few more years under his belt than both of you guys, and his map TLC is overall a better map than any one of queenies, nothing against him. Second of all, that little trigger thingy and the secret room is almost a form of cheating, and i know it will be used against clans like us that don't play all day and find little things like that. right at spawn all the other team has to do is quick hit the trigger and crawl into there and grab the auto's which is a big dissadvantage to the other team (us). Dark was a good man and didn't want queenie to get away with it, which i also thought was the right thing to do. Now maybe create a sign to show the triggers there? or change the texture.
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Derek, I see where you are coming from, but let me put it this way:
The catwalk jump through the window on propaint1 may seem easy, but only after you know how to do it. It is part of the map. It allowed one team to quickly reach the other team's base. Now if one team doesn't know how to do the catwalk jump, is this now cheating?
Compare this to my secret room. They both offer advantages to BOTH teams, however they require the team to have a base knowledge of the map and its "ins and outs".
Also, unless you have anything relevant to say about my map, and it is not about anyone else, please do not post.
Flame, I am directing this towards you, as I would not like to see any major flaming happen in this thread. I am not blaming you, I am simply stating what I wish to happen.
Also, TLC is a much better map (in my opinion) than Remenissions.
And E3, I didn't do a final vis before because of my computer. It couldn't handle the vis, so I went with fastvis. Now that I have my new computer, however, I will be able to fully vis it.
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No problemo Queenie
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The catwalk jump through the window on propaint1 may seem easy, but only after you know how to do it. It is part of the map. It allowed one team to quickly reach the other team's base. Now if one team doesn't know how to do the catwalk jump, is this now cheating?
Sorry to say this, but that's kind of like asking "If you studied for a test and got 100% on it, is that cheating?" :P
Otherwise, nice map.
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Well I guess I can't trust you pub newbies to make an honest judgment. Clearly there is a difference between a secret tunnel to a room and a catwalk jump. Anyways I was making sure people knew about it so that nobody gets owned unfairly on it.
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why make a trigger? why not spawn with carbines and cockers? to me it seems like you put too much effort into this "secret" room when you should have bee concentrating on other parts or the map. example: that big hideous mound of garbage in the middle of the grass.
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coLa stop rippin the map. You apologized to queenie for making fun of his map than you offered some constructive criticism about ladders and jumps and he used it. Im sure theres a reason why the mound s there.
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has ANY of the criticism been positively acknowledged and addressed? It seems people would be happier bickering about a pointless room than addressing big problems with this map, which is in my opinion very far from a releasable state. I posted before a list of points that need addressing, can we keep this discussion to what this thread is actually about? ie, providing constructive criticisms so Queenie can either agree to change it, or give a reasonable rationale about why he would prefer it as it is.
As a personal note to you Queenie, Ignoring the problems of needlessly high r_speeds is one of the biggest mistakes you can make mapping, and you will never be taken seriously by simply dismissing it. The problem with the r_speeds on this map is fundamental to the design of your bases, what with the massive windows that see across huge distances. Without addressing this carefully, you will probably not be able to reduce these, and as a result it will play poorly on some people's systems. Look at BoB's new map - it looks great, is very open, and yet has lower r_speeds than Remenissions, which is ugly and poorly thought out.
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
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Guess a map is only as good as its looks today.
I still wonder why none of the people that have posted have actually played this map in a match yet (well, the previous version, but its basically the same) and still pass judgment.
A map does not need to look good if it has good gameplay. If you want it to look good, go play another game. Take kungfu, for example. The gameplay there is nonexistent, yet it looks good. Will it get played in matches? No. Will it get played in pubs? Probably a few times. I remember matching several different clans on my map even before I started working on a beta2.
Also, if you HAD played it in a match, you would understand why things are the way they are. But instead you just take a quick glance at it, noclip through it a couple times, and never even play it without acebots.
Also, I would like to point out that I did not make the design of this map. I simply constructed it.
And how is the catwalk jump any different from my secret room? Darkness I believe I pointed out how it is the same, yet you fail to come up with any reasonable evidence of a significant difference between the two.
And please don't cry about the r_speeds. I have a 16mb vid card and I don't drop lower than 55fps ANYWHERE on the map. So maybe I should try to convert this into a Zen. Then again, I actually want this map to get played.
Sorry for taking personal blows at you Rick, but I believe you "started it".
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3000+ R-speds is indicative of other problems to come... like lag on the sound engine and network lag from too many zones being accessed at once. The map needs to be leak proof (not just tossed into an even bigger box) and properly vissed.
O
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Working on it.
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My post here have been nothing but constructive, you simply ignore good advice and tenets of good mapping practice.
Me and Reed have discussed the map at length and have play tested it, coming to the conclusions listed above.
Not that I feel the need to defend myself to you, but as I have said Kung Fu isn't designed for your favoured type of gameplay, it's designed for mine and Reeds. I don't mind if it doesn't get played, it's enough for me to not compromise our intended vision for the map and get praise from people like Yootz, etc.. who's opinion is actually mature and valued. Also, you haven't even seen Zen's latest incarnation, so how can you possibly comment on it?
I wouldn't expect this to be played much given how much bad blood there is towards this map thanks to your little name-theft faux-pas, not to mention the abominable gameplay and poor design. Jitspoe, Lekky, the guys at DP Resource, etc... all go to pains to give us guidelines for making maps which are well honed and key to making a well developed map and you just seem to ignore them as you know better.
Good luck with the map, I'm not going to waste my time helping you fix your mistake anymore.
- Dr Rick Dagless M.D
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Very well put Doctor.
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I've been trying to stay out of this but I just can't do it everyone here just calm down. First Queenie stop getting so defensive there is absolutelyno reason to go flaming dag and somethings Darkness has said have been questionable but clam down.
Second Darkness why are you going and flaming Flame the smae to you Flame. Also Darkness just think of yourself as if you're Queenie or someone else for a moment and see what you think of your posts.
Please stop flaming and get back to constructive critisism like Dag has been doing this entire thread.
Thanks,
Apocalypse
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Welcome to the forums Apocalypse. Stop criticizing people and stay on topic next time.
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Please follow the guidelines listed here: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=5149.0
As Eiii pointed out, the map is not vised correctly (looks like the map leaked?) and is unfit for public play. This and other issues need to be sorted out before the map is even play tested. That's the whole reason for releasing public betas. Also the model you've included should go somewhere other than the players directory (and you should include the full path in the zip), and the skin uses the wrong palette. Have you checked the license to make sure you can even distribute it?
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Welcome to the forums Apocalypse. Stop criticizing people and stay on topic next time.
Very well :P
Queenie you should probably make it more difficult to get to that room or remove the autocockers from it.
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well I guess I'm just going to abandon this map as everyone thinks it is just so horrible.
And rick, maybe you should just stick to being a doctor. Dp isn't really your thing.
Last thing I would like to point out before I "abandon all hope" is this: I have been working tirelessly to imrpove this map, and I do not even get a chance to update this thread without being harassed about how "Crappy" it looks and how apparently "bad" it plays by the "mature" members of the forum. And insulting me on bad design when I didn't even create the design.
If you realized it has become harder and harder to create new and original maps. Why, you ask? Well because of the community. They expect perfection every time. And if the mapper decides to work on the map without announcing to everyone that he/she has actually listened to the instructions, then I guess they just "ignored" everything.
I was ready to upload the new version completely fixed, but I guess dropping 15fps in some places is way to horrible to imagine what the next update will be.
This community sucks.
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lmfao. Dag was pointing out what to change. You, stubborn little intercourse you are, denied everything and continued like you were.
"This community sucks." ARE YOU LEAVING????????? =)
User banned for this post
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Not deserved in my opinion.
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Blaa deserved the ban but thats besides the point.
Queenie don't give up on the map, it is a really fun map, there are a lot of people who enjoy this map and think it's fun to play. Just because a few of the older players who think the only thing that makes a map good is r_speeds and how it looks say it's bad, doesn't mean it is. You people need to realize that when you're running through a map in a public server or a match, nobody cares about your r_speeds unless it is dropping you to 12 fps or something. Perhaps you should spend less time criticizing people on the forums and more time playing the actual game so you can learn this.
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Wait until you put a lot of time into a map, know it looks good and plays good and still have people tell you it sucks because they cant camp it or do better than 1:5 k/d on it or they get capped on because they can't comprehend more than one route. That will really get under your skin.
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Well I guess I'll try to start this again. I'll start a new topic so nobody bother posting here.
This time I will release it in beta stages and hope that I can come to a final product eventually.
Is it possible to delete a topic?
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Bottom Left hand corner queenie I believe there is a remove if not you can always just lock it.
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Yes, that's right. I'm back again. Here is what I have improved since (or during) the last thread:
-dealt with high r_speeds
-fixed all leaks
-numerous clip brushes added to improve game play
-removed autocockers/grenades from the secret room
Also, I would like to point out that anyone can access the secret room by simply shooting the bottom left brick underneath the flag.
Now that there are no more secrets, lets try this again.
I am here to take whatever criticism you throw at me, just remember, give me some time to respond and make changes.
Download the latest and greatest here:
http://zilla-clan.net/upload/285109
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you shouldve put _b1 at the end of the name but whatever
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I've put the map up on the beta server (see PM for details) and recorded a demo of things you might want to revise.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of the design. It has two key things I dislike: Large, open areas and annoying jumps. The box/ladder jump is especially bad, but I guess it isn't a really critical area, so it probably isn't a big deal.
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Box/ladder usually never gets used anyway, and the annoying jumps are what makes it so fun :D
Lets check out this demo :)
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Oh look, Jitspoe criticizing a map which involves jumping. Jitspoe learn to quad jump and stop whining.
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Oh look, darkness counter-attacking and insulting someone with a different preference than him. Darkness learn to accept criticism and stop being a baby.
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Oh look, darkness counter-attacking and insulting someone with a different preference than him. Darkness learn to accept criticism and stop being a baby.
*thumbs up*
nice map queenie
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Oh look, :P
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Group time out, everyone pick a corner and come back in 15 minutes.
FtX
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Fourthx, I was wondering if you could possibly give me some tips on VIS'ing and making lower r_speeds in general. The r_speeds are still rather high in some places (1000+). I am having this problem in several other maps I am working on as well.
Also, if anyone could tell me how to properly use a hint brush it would be very much appreciated. :)
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Looks great Queenie one thing is you might want to take off the coloured metal on the 4 way ramp in the bases it looks kind of weird.
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Weird is secksi.
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i think it looks better than before but just useless for that big ass mound of grass.
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Rhymed. :P
Any suggestions what I should put there?
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barrels, crates, just to name a "few"
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So I should just plop down some crates and barrels? :P
I was thinking of turning the mound of grass into a sort of underground bunker. Thoughts?
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Sounds good to me QueeNiE
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maybe an under ground path that goes from one base to the other. just a thought. maybe iced?
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How about some screenshots for those of us stuck at work?
FtX
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Sick idea Cola, I'll upload some screenies in a few.
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Fourthx, I was wondering if you could possibly give me some tips on VIS'ing and making lower r_speeds in general. The r_speeds are still rather high in some places (1000+). I am having this problem in several other maps I am working on as well.
Also, if anyone could tell me how to properly use a hint brush it would be very much appreciated. :)
1000-1300 isn't too bad just make sure there aren't alot of visible entities at the same time. As for how to use a hint brush that would depend on the map, make a scrn shot from the editor if you can and I'll see if I can figure it out. Get a good shot of the offending area and all the areas around it.
FtX
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(http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4377/remenissionstopviewlc9.jpg)
That's all I could fit into my resolution.
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nvm.
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Heh ok, i was wong I have no clue what's going on there. email the .map to fourthxdp AT hotmail.com and I'll look at it this weekend.
FtX
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Roger.
And I'll have lots of time to discuss/work on it this weekend. Considering I'm about to enjoy an 8 day vacation from DP. :(