Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: RoyalBlood on January 12, 2003, 02:52:49 PM
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First of all, I say DP cuz thats what the community that plays PB2 is called. So this is a community thing =)
If anyone is planning on making a league, you better let me in on this. And everyone that should be in on it, for that matter too. For instance, we dont need two leagues, so if two seperate leagues were to be planned, lets combine efforts into one good league.
Also, and no offense to whomever this might apply to, but there are certain people who just dont belong in a position to do this and by the same reasoning there are some people who just have to be a part of it. For instance, the people who should be a part of creating and running the league should be people who will actually contribute, are generally respected, are mature and not lame, are unbiased and fair, ideally have been a part of the community for a long time and are very knowledgeable with the game, etc. You know what I mean. So just cuz you "want" a league doesnt mean you should create a half-assed sucky league that falls apart after a couple weeks. Lets make sure we do this thing right people. For the good of DP.
I feel I would be a huge asset towards creating a rules foundation. I live for the matches and competition, so I need to make sure you guys do it right. And I know quite a bit of you arent the sports type and are too geeky (just kidding, kinda ;D) to know how to make it work. Then we should have a committee of fair and unbiased, experienced individuals who can be judges on any rules disputes. Me and Zimbu would be perfect for this, tho we would need at least a 3rd to accomplish anything. Someone like Xbain should be involved cuz of his servers and cool statistics on the Er33t website. Cal and Jits obviously should be involved somehow. You know what I mean now about certain people being involved. So Im making a call to all these people who should help make this a success to unite and MAKE it happen.
Now we shouldnt start this for another couple months at least. Let PB2v2.0 get bug fixed and updated and stuff. Then we can start really talking. BUt in the meantime we could get a website up and decide on how the league would be run and make some rules and get it all set up. LIke for instance only certain maps should be allowed, so we need people, like myself, who are unbiased and open minded, and most of all, experienced in clan matching, to go through the maps and find those that excel for matches (which i feel should be 4v4 - that seams to be natural). Anyway, all that can and should be discussed by the committee at a later time.
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Good thoughts, I would be willing to help :)
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Ok, I'm going to start working on something. More on this as developments occur.
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Oh and RoyalBlood, I mean, you are the most unbiased person in the community of course, right? I mean you single handedly saved DP, you know all about this community. Now Zimbu isnt exactly the most unbiased person either, but there's absolutely no one in this community that isnt biased towards someone/someclan/something. You for one suck up to people who run servers ( XB ) and people who have ops in #paintball . And then you hate on everyone that owns you, so basicly everyone else in the community. you'd be one of the worst possible choices for a committe in a league.
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LOL thats the most ignorant thing ive heard in a LONG time. I definately dont suck up to anyone. Of course everyone is biased in some way, dont be a smart ass. What I mean is that they make an attempt to be unbiased, which I absolutely gaurentee I can and always have done. I dont say or think that I saved DP or anything, however I do feel that I am very knowledgeable about the community and the game. So thusly I feel that I and very qualified for this and I feel that a lot of other people feel the same way, excluding ignorant llamas like yourself. Who the hell are you anyway, that you are so jealous of me to be hating on me for absolutely no reason?
And to OJ and Fryth, your help would be greatly appreciated. Knew I could count on you, didnt even have to ask.
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You haven't even been playing in the community for quite some time. You have no idea what it has evolved into. And if you don't think you suck up to anyone.. you need to take a look at yourself.
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Flare... there is no place for flaming on these forums. If I see another post like these, I'll delete it.
Edit: Flare = Y2J. His IP, e-mail and user have all been banned.
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well well.. fryth.. one of the #paintball ops, the group rb sucks up to. Of course you'd say something like that. Now if you'd read what I said you'd take into consideration it is the truth, and I have not flamed one bit. As for you, I hope you hit your bong acouple more times to prove just how cool you are man.
P.S. I really dont see how you guys can be leading a league, if you cant take criticism on it to fix some issues. I mean, lets just ban me from the league because I disagree with one rule you make, screw asking how everyone feels. Thats just the impression you're giving by banning me cause i'm telling the truth about on your "friends".
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Royal, Some good ideas, we just have to see that they are used appropriatly. I'm willing to help, if needed, idk what for. There is talk among some local players about a clan being started, time will tell for us.
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Might as well ban his class A if you intend on restricting him.
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I think a league would be great. Of course, it'd be worthless to start it anytime soon. It needs to wait until 2.0 is officially release and is used by everyone and it starts to [hopefully] gain more players.
The one thing I mainly disagreed with(and always have), is how you hold yourself at such a high level, RB. You barely even play anymore. You don't know all the maps, and especially don't have any better of a view about which maps are good for matches and which aren't.
If I'm in a clan and matching a team, I don't want some people telling me 'well, no, you can't play that map because we don't like it for matches.' I mean, sure.. there should be a universal ban on Crates, but other than that, I really hate this idea.
And don't ban y2j, fryth. Geez. Get over him - he's one of the most active players in the community and he doesn't cheat like everyone likes to think. Sure, he may have exploited er.. exploits that went unfixed in the mod a long time ago, but that's because they went unfixed. If they would have been fixed when they were brought up, it wouldn't have been a problem.
Plus, he's pregnant with my little girl. excretory openings.
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I banned Y2J because he managed to do nothing but criticize people in his post, and offered no valuable input whatsoever. It's a "flame" in my book, because it illicits nothing but a derogatory response in return. Which it did, and after Royal's reply, Y2J then continued his personal attack in this thread. As far as I'm concerned, there's no place for that in these forums, and I will delete any accounts he creates. Any further posts in this thread about Y2J or bans will be deleted.
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The one thing I mainly disagreed with(and always have), is how you hold yourself at such a high level, RB. You barely even play anymore. You don't know all the maps, and especially don't have any better of a view about which maps are good for matches and which aren't.
Hence why I never stated that I am doing or even capable of doing this by myself. I specifically said we need a lot of good people to help. What I'm talking about bringing to the table is completely irrelevant to me not having played much over the past two years. And as you said, and I said initially... this wont happen for a while. I am playing now and will have been playing and know whats going on by that time.
If I'm in a clan and matching a team, I don't want some people telling me 'well, no, you can't play that map because we don't like it for matches.' I mean, sure.. there should be a universal ban on Crates, but other than that, I really hate this idea.
Well thats not whats happening. Its a league, so OBVIOUSLY you have to abide by the rules of the league. Outside of the league you can play whatever maps you want to. But the whole purpose of even having a league is to have a common ground where every match is of equal value and fairness. Its to have one place where a clan can legitamately say they are better than another clan cuz their league record is better. None of this one clan wins a bunch of 2v2s and another only goes 50% on 4v4s on tougher maps arguements of neverending doom.
Your opinions are apperciated tho, keep em coming.
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I don't see what knowledge of the community has to do with starting a league. If anything, impartiality is a beneficial trait. In fact, I can't come up with a single example of how current trends would change the league rules, except for maps - but any kind of limitations on the maps have been shown in previous league attempts to be unacceptable.
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You definately need map limitations. Cuz some maps just dont work good for certain types of matches. And as a league the whole purpose is for teams to compete against other teams. Which means the maps need to be teamwork oriented maps. Maps like Crates, Arctic, Sandtrap, etc shouldnt be allowed cuz they are dont actually require any teamplay. All it is, is every man for himself really. The only team strategy is to not get in the way of your other team mates. Maybe one person is a rusher, and one is a defensive player. But there isnt actually any teamwork going on. So whats the point of that? You could do that any night of the week on one of the public servers. This is a league, it should be different than the normal games. I understand that a lot of people wouldnt like not being able to play such popular maps like the ones i mentioned. You know, thats too bad. They dont have to join. And it wouldnt hurt them to be more open-minded and try it. You never know, they might find out that its actually more fun =)
And as for being familiar with the current community... Well first of all I have been chatting on IRC regularly during this time I havent been playing, so its not like im clueless. And I agree with Fryth, it has no relevence to knowing what makes a good match and league. If anything, we should go away from whatever is the current trend. Cuz over the years matches have gotten pathetic. In the beta days it was normal to play 4v4 matches on maps bigger than Sandtrap. Slowly both the size of the maps being used and the players on each team have gone down. And I think anyone who has played a few 4v4's in the beta days can back me up when i say that those were better. Matches meant more, there was more competition, and you actually had to use some teamplay and strategy, which all equaled up to a more enjoyable and rewarding experience. So lets try to make that the standard again.
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<=-- not gonna be in league if sandtrap and arctic aren't allowed.
You may as well turn off paintballs and not allow teams to refill their co2, either. Nazi.
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You could, perhaps have a list of "authorized maps" for league matching. However, only extremely one-sided/bug-ridden maps should not be allowed. That's just a tiny aspect of what you're trying to do. It is indeed quite a task to run an organized league with the current community. XtremeBain and I had coded quite a lot of dynamic content for a league we were planning a while back. Beside the obvious hours that need to be put in to create an organized system, one has to take in effect that the average DP Player in our community is.. 14-18. That's an extremely influential factor. For example, in the eR33t.com sponsored 1vs1 and 2vs2 tournaments, we had a maximum of maybe.. 50% of the people who signed up actually show up. You can't expect a great amount of dedidication/commitment for the majority of the clans/players today. Perhaps the 2.0 release will bring many new faces into the community - strenthing this lack of commitment. Perhaps not.. we'll just have to wait and see..
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<=-- not gonna be in league if sandtrap and arctic aren't allowed.
Who in their right mind would start a league and restrict the most popular maps in DP?
Of course people should be able to pick whatever map they want. In the past, each team picked a map, but due to the overwhelming number of maps, it may be reasonable to require teams to agree on their choices.
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Who in their right mind would start a league and restrict the most popular maps in DP?
Maps like Crates, Arctic, Sandtrap, etc shouldnt be allowed cuz they are dont actually require any teamplay.
Not saying he's in his right mind, but your buddy RB said it right there and he's the one throwing up the ideas. That's why I said strap and arctic.
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I agree with RB on that one. Those maps have very little teamplay and stratigy. I never enjoyed matching on those maps as much as, say, midnight2.
Perhaps it could be run with like an official map list, and other maps could be played, but only if both teams agree to it (but if one team does not with to play a crappy, small map, the other team must select another that they both agree on, or one from the official list).
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Bleh, maps are a matter of personal preference, there should be no group that rules over who can play what. I can understand if someone makes a map that is totally lopsided and has all kinds of secret holes in the walls and the next day sends it to clan and says they're matching with it that night or something like that.
But these maps have been around, and are very popular. You are in the vast minority not liking arctic and strap.
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Maybe you guys dont understand what im saying. Its a league, not a do-whatever-you-want-free-for-all. Each team can pick their own map, FROM a list of league maps. Whether or not Sandtrap or Arctic get used will largely depend on the format of the league and how many teams we are expecting to play. If the league is 4v4 matches, which I feel is what we should aim for, then unfortunately Sandtrap and Arctic just arent ideal for that and would completely make the whole concept of teamplay meaningless, which is the whole purpose of the league. Even if both teams want to play one of those maps, I think its in the best interest of competition and teamplay for that to be disallowed. The idea is to have each match be of equal weight competitively. If one clan constantly plays 3v3 on crates or arctic for their maps and another is playing 4v4 on brainstorm and midnight2 all the time, those are completely different types of matches and dont hold equal weight. For a league to work every match needs to be relatively equal to every one, otherwise you lose the whole concept of competition.
Ok I think we can agree that maps are a big concern and everyone has different opinons on that. That will be noted. Now lets try to put out some other ideas and opinions on the league outside of map issues. We aint ironing out a maplist (if there is one) for a while yet, so its best to talk more about that later. What about format? How long do you want it to last, or how many matches inolved? Anything about substituting? I'm sure theres a lot of other things you can think of too.
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Bleh, maps are a matter of personal preference, there should be no group that rules over who can play what. I can understand if someone makes a map that is totally lopsided and has all kinds of secret holes in the walls and the next day sends it to clan and says they're matching with it that night or something like that.
I dont disagree with you.. for a normal match. But its a league and you gotta expect that you cant just have everything go according to your own personal preference. The league has to make rules and organize according to what works best for the league, not what works best for an individual person or what one person might like the most. Thats just common sense. If we just did everything according to whats most popular or let everyone do what they wanted, then it would just be chaotic and hugely unsuccessfull.
And I dont dislike Sandtrap or Arctic, I love them and enjoy playing them. However there is a time and a place for them and if this league is gunna be different and better than any other ones before it (and also if you guys want DP to actually revive and thrive in general) then this is not a time and place for them. Jitspoe is right, maybe you guys dont remember the beta days like we do. 4v4 matches were the norm and people played on bigger, nonlinear maps all the time. And it was a lot better and more rewarding of an experience than these cheap pathetic excuses for matches that is common nowadays.
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MUuuuuuhahahah... Im back..... anyways, my two cents on this pissing contest you homos are having. First.... be quiet.... stop yer b1tch1ng... grow up... and play DP.. Nough said....... Oh wait, one more thing... fembot... blow me...... ;D
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Complain about the rules all you want, but when you have organized, structured competitions, there is more fun to be had.
Now, on to some ideas:
I would like to see some friendly fire matches -- bring back some long-lost stratigies. :)
The standard 20-minute/50-point limit seems to work well.
There should almost be a rule against unsportsmanlike conduct. Some of these children just need to be spanked. :P
There should be a ref for each match.
Everyone should be required to record demos in case there is some questionable behavior...
Matches should be planned in advance, with the maps and teams already picked out. If a clan doesn't show up with enough members on the match night, they'll just have to duke it out 2v4 or whatever. (under reasonable circumstances or agreement of the opposing team, the match can be rescheduled, of course).
Players can't play for more than one clan.
Clans should have some basic requirements -- like a minimum of 5 people, a web page w/records, etc. Basically some kind of stable organization that's been lacking in some of the clans these days.
Minimum of 3 people on a team for the match to count.
</brainstorm>
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I sure as hell remember playing alot of matches on ksplat1,ksplat3, and strap back in the "old days" of DP when blizzard were the only LPBs.
Tell me those were strategy-like. You're just remember the side you liked, not everything.
But I degress.. you're both wrong, so we can just end this little discussion and move on. ;D
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I agree with all your ideas Jitspoe except partially for friendly fire. I like friendly fire grenades. But cuz of the similarities in blue and purple and how fast the balls shot and how easily they can get lost in the background, i just think it would be too frustrating to use full friendly fire. And you KNOW everyone would female dog about that even more than about the maps ;)
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MFornal, I know he said it; I disagreed with him. No need to point out that he is "my buddy"? I don't think there is a need to make sides here. We're just brainstorming ideas for a league.
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That's why you need to know where your teammates are -- not have everyone run randomly around. A good team will have a structured stratigy and know who to shoot at even if they can't tell the colors.
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MFornal, I know he said it; I disagreed with him. No need to point out that he is "my buddy"? I don't think there is a need to make sides here. We're just brainstorming ideas for a league.
Question marks inside the quotes, sir.
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Question marks inside the quotes, sir.
Dubious. I found some websites which say some punctuation is exempted, some websites which say all punctuation is outside, some that say all punctuation is inside, and some that say for dialogue and speech it's inside the quotes, for other quotations it's outside the quotes. Beats the excrement out of me.
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Post removed
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A good team will have a structured stratigy and know who to shoot at even if they can't tell the colors.
I disagree... more complicated maps create stategic gameplay - which has the potential to make it MORE difficult to distinguish between friend/foe once things are branched out into multiple paths/backdoors/etc.
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Since we never seem to derivate from the topic of map restriction, here's my definite opinion: Don't. It would be *great* if DP became an ultra-strategic mod with maps like cfire being played all the time. But I'm not even so sure arctic and sandtrap lack teamplay elements - they just don't have the same kind of teamplay (a much better kind in my opinion) as cfire or pforest or whatever.
But the word 'whatever' is key here. Who are we to draw a line in the sand about which maps are 'strategic'? It's pretentious in my opinion.
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What about a compromise?
Each team plays each other twice in the main "season" of the league. First round the maps are either A) given to the teams B) choses by the teams from a list.
The second time the team matches each other they choose the maps.
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Thats partially what im thinknig Zimbu. I am indeed thinking each team plays each other in their division twice. However i dont think we should make it "gimmicky" where one time they play it this way and the other time its that way. Im saying each clan has their own choice of maps, only its out of a list of maps. And im not saying like itll only be 5 maps or so, itll be a lot of maps. Just we want to make sure they are regulated in someway.
Now guys, actually think realistic for a change. You know that not regulating the maps in someway would be disastrious. It seams that those of you who are thinking im out of my mind for even thinking that a map like Arctic shouldnt be allowed are just too afraid to do something different. Your already used to the simple linear maps and too lazy or unsure of yourself or your teammates to want to try maps that are more involving. Thats the whole point of the league. To do something different than the typical everyday clan match. A TEAM league must have TEAM maps and rules according to what is best for a competitive TEAM matches. Thats the point. So think along those lines, not along whats most convenient. Thats boring.
Good thread tho. Keep them opinions coming. Trust me, they are appreciated and taking into consideration.
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I certainly hope commitment won’t be an issue like it currently is with clans and matches. We need the clans to stay together through the season. I don’t want it to start out with like 8 clans and end with like 2...
Also, I’m not sure about the whole season thing. I remember a while back someone came up with an algorithm for clan ranking that took into account things like the number of matches, the ranking of the clans it matched and whatnot, so wins against good clans counted for more than wins against newbie clans. We should let clans match other clans of their choosing, but winning against a poorly-ranked clan won’t help them much. Well, the season thing would be kinda cool too. It’d be nice to have a way to incorporate both.
Blitz: I’ve seen how some really structured CS clans play. They practice the map and lay out strategies before the match. If person X dies, they know the enemy is at location Y, and person Z needs to go over there and head them off. Think of football -- In a little game with some friends, you might run around randomly and be like “throw me the ball! I’m open!” (current pb2 community), but pro football players have a game plan. They have the plays laid out and know who is going to be where -- teamwork. That’s what I want to promote with this.
Another thing that we should think about -- what all should I be putting in the new version to make this more manageable? I was thinking the rounds should definitely wait for both team captains to say “ready” or something, giving ample time to swap players out, discuss strategies, etc.
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The way I see it, clan mode should work as follows:
Up to four clans can be set up on the server, each with a password.
A "clan" would consist of a name, abbreviation, captain, and password (so the cvars would be like clan1_name, clan1_abbrev, clan1_password...). Players would join a "clan" on a server using a command (either "join" or "joinclan"). The captain would choose the teams, and give the "ready" signal.
This way, a server can remain open to observers to watch the match (observer talk could be disabled to players).
The abbreviation would be used as a file id system-- skin support should be enabled if a clan wants to use a different skin than what their color is. Other files can also by identified (maybe like a team banner instead of the color splat in the score list). So if a clan's abbreviation was "Marines", their skin would be "Marines_skin.jpg" and their banner would be "Marines_banner.jpg".
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Jitspoe,
Your idea of teamwork in that way would be all fine and dandy if this were CS - but it's not.
In CS, the maps are large and you start out with weapons. It's easy to setup a position and stick with it, etc.
In DP, you don't start out with weapons and depending on where you spawn, you have to go to different spots each time to get different weapons. Which means it'll take longer to get to a certain spot - and with the size of maps in DP, that probably means someone or multiple people from the other team have already rushed to the point or beyond where you were going to station yourself.
Also, with strafe jumping, it's not nearly as realistic to think when someone dies, you can run over and cover the spot they just died at, because the opponent moves so darn fast. It's not that easy. Maybe if there were no jumping and everyone moved a slow steady speed that could work.
And to setup positions and stick to them in DP means you have to stay still - which means you're probably dead. If I am playing a clan that has set spots, I could easily rush in and take them out. They are sitting still. So they have two options - camp quietly and hope you don't know where they are or spray a spot so you can't get by.
If they are spraying.. you know where they are generally.. go under or over the spray and bam.. hit the still target. If they are camping, they're still and not even shooting- even easier.
I think to even compare strategy for CS with DP is rediculous.
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and with the size of maps in DP
That's why we shouldn't have matches on the crappy small maps. :P
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That's why we shouldn't have matches on the crappy small maps.
LOL, exactly. Also, DP clans used to always play like this. How come its a problem now?
I think the idea of some kind of clan ranking algorithm. But a league is different. Its just like a longer tourney. The champion isnt necessarily the best clan, its just bragging rights. So it would be nice to have a ranking and a seperate league, but have the ranking algorithm take into account "championships" somehow. That might be cool.
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Well, I personally think the less this is managed, the better. The clans should have the freedom to match the way they would normally match, just this way, they can feel like they're part of a "whole".
As soon as we start getting control-freak about little rules (map choices in the first season etc)... I mean, I know it's not unbelievably complicated. But, it's still going to remove from the fun, I think.
The only improvements to the code I'd like to see are statistics-related, a la CS. That would make scoring more dynamic.
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ok guys i was reading all this sh-- --um-- stuff it sounds great but your all over looking the main problem lack of players in dp and that is partly the fault of you "old timers" running off new players by insults and degrading remarks in public play how can you get more people involved with this game when all they hear is.... you stupid donkey newbie..... be quiet u noob.....get the hell off my team you llama ...and my favorite "if it wasn't for me there would be no dp".... Some of you guys act like you don't want anyone new involved in dp well guess what if you guys don't start helping the newb's then you old timers well soon be playing with yourselves .. Id like to thank some players from er33t for there helping attitude like bob for one who has helped people out with problems and taking time to explain and even show how to make some of the jumps to us new folks. Im just saying try to help get the game rolling not roll the players under a bus i like to play this game i hate to see it fade away like other games i have played on the net have done over the last few years....and one more thing some of you clan leaders need to recruit some of the new guys and teach them things..thats what the clan should be doing not just grabing up good player but taking a newbie and help molding him into skilled player......anyways im all in on a league thanks Snipen
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Ok just to comment on the league again while i have a good point to share.... You wouldnt host a dodgeball tourney and then allow clans to play seige castle instead just cuz they like that better, right? Same thing with a league. A league is just a longer and more involved tourney. But you have to have a format and rules. Allowing the clans to do whatever the hell they want makes the league irrelevent and worthless.
And to Snipen, you are correct. There isnt enough active players/teams to do this yet. We are only talking about it so that when we have enough, we can put it into motion, hopefully. But your right about the newbie treatment. I was trying to help a newbie today and two other "vets" were playing around with him and getting him to join #2,000. I know its funny to mess around with newbies from time to time, but you also have to help them out too. The only way a newbie will get better and learn how to play is by learning from a vet. So this means helping them and also setting an example.
Also you know the game is unbalanced when a newbie gets shown how to do the "jumps" instead of something like how to drop a smoke grenade instead of just tossing it when you want to get rid of it. I know im exaggerating, but it holds true to a great extent.
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rb i think you miss read what i said. when i said the clan leaders should be recruiting and training newbie's that's what i talking about teach them to drop smoke grenade's not toss them... help them with the binds... and setting up there options and commands and config files.. what should your fps be set at...which video resolution is best 800x600 ,,640x480 and why... and no they do need to be taught about jumps when a new person joins in play and a guy is jumping of stuff twice as high as the newbie can he's thinking wtf and when he ask how you get up there the answer is "i jumped you stupid donkey newbie" you guys forget that you once where new and didn't know how to do all the skilled jumping and stuff ... the clan leaders need a trainee program for there clan and im not talking about these guys who just decide one day hey lets start our own clan im talking about you guys that have been around a while you need to step up and take charge. the clan leader could even have one of his top players be in charge of the trainee program cause i know that one person cant do it all..anyway there it is i know someone is going to slam me and call me names but that's ok i cant take it lol.... l8r snipen
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You can't expect clans to jump at the idea of taking in a newer player and training them to be good. Leaders have certain expectations from players in the community, other clan leaders, and their own clan members. I'll give you a real example which happened recently just to demonstrate how this works.
BoB/Smoke has been playing day in and day out on our public servers, idling in the eR33t-related channels(on both networks) and showing overall improvements in his skills and abilities. I saw him as being an extremely capable player and knew he would only get better with exposure to a better playing atmosphere. After taking all of this into consideration and I consulted with Y2J, he didn't express any concerns and I recruited him that evening, and was ready to help him out on his gameplay/teamwork/general skills.
The following day I came onto a ton of criticism over the issue, from typically those who wanted to join. "er33t is gone to excrement" - "er33t doesnt have standards anymore" - "i can beat bob 1v1" - etc. However inside the clan channel there was nothing but support and congrats to bob, speaking with other eR33t members they all supported my idea and knew that I had everything in control.
Fortunately the others were considerate of my choice and supported me through it, but I've been in several management situations through out other previous where this sort of thing hasn't been taken well by my members.
The unfortunate part is that BoB, other members and myself were subject to this criticism from players on the outside, even though BoB is a great player and is far from a newbie.
If a leader from another clan were to recruit someone with little to no skill, they would be under the same fire from other players, their own members, and even their own co-leaders. That's why it becomes such a difficult task for most clans to even attempt doing it, and really halts the development of new players. I'm just glad two great guys gave me a chance and a step in the right direction. =]
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I agree with snipen. One of the reasons why clans dont have enough good people and die quickly is the lack of talent on a particular clan. Clans should get a relativly new couple of ppl and train them to be good in the long run. Kind of like a farm team.. that sounds kinda stupid but I would try and teach newbs to play better. Maybe tell them they can join the clan if they agree to not play the first few matches and just train for a little bit before they actually start matching. I also think that if that were to happen that there should be more scrimmaging so that the new ppl that clans pick up can get accustomed to a formated clan match..... Thats all i have to say for now
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hmm, sounds like we need some kind of "Paintball Academy"
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I'll help..
I find myself helping random new people on pubs at 2am on my nights off. They'll ask how I did a certain jump or move fast or something, and I'll end up showing them like a billion things on the maps on the rotation. It's fun to teach people stuff.
The more competition the better.
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Xbain i understand where you are coming from but i think OJ is on the same page i am im not talking about taking a new guy and saying ok you er33t what i saying is have a training clan to put them in and after a while if they cut the mustard then they get to be in the clan the training period could be many months.. if they are not what you are wanting in your clan then tell them that its not working out for your clan and them.. but no one loses cause they got a chance and they should have learned something to take with them im sure another clan would pick them up... in the long run it would work out and maybe a "Paintball Academy" according to jitspoe might be the thing to do. There could even be a lottery for new guys and trades and stuff (only the minor league players) make that part of the league or something ..hell that might be too much but i think you all get where im coming from...thanks Snipen
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New players usually don't learn howto play good by playing with people who are in the same boat as they are. Also I for one am not willing to teach players team strategies and tactics only to see them leave for another clan when they actually get skills, but aren't called up to be in eR33t. I might as well be having strategy development workshops with every other clan just so they know everything we do.
One thing that would help the growth of the newer players would be a league that had seperate levels based on skill level of the clan. However, there are only enough clans for one league so perhaps accomodations could be made if we were to just have a league open to all levels of skill.
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Why wouldn't you open a league to all skill levels, the way i see it you really have no choice unless you want a league with 2 clans worth of people who know what they are doing. I agree that something needs to be done about teaching newbies, if you dont want to, then thats fine it is your choice. However, when people dont play the game cause all the newbies are getting bashed, dont complain that no one plays DP.
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"Paintball Academy?" this is just getting crazy now. Didn't your mother ever tell you to "Keep It Simple, Stupid?" Yeesh. Two rounds and a tiebreaker, 20/50 time/fraglimit, and both teams have to agree on all maps. I don't see how anything could go wrong.
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i think i am going to have to agree with fryth on this one ;)
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Clans dont need to take a newbie in and train them. But if you find one who seams cool and hes interested, thats a good way to get another good player. Teach them your secrets, and they will grow in the clan and you will develop a better feel for each other. But what i mean is, like look at what Zimbu did recently. He made a DP FAQ. We need more of that. People who take a bit of time to help. What the rest of us can do is if we see someone doing something wrong when playing, instead of insulting him for it, explain to him that its not considered right, or whatever the case is. Like someone tossing smoke into their base to get rid of it, dont be like "meddling JEW NEWB.. DONT DO THAT". Your only looking worse than the newbie now.
I know i shouldnt even say it, cuz its a lost cause, but I will anyway. In a way I agree with Oddjob. But not exactly, cuz its not cuz of a lack of talent that clans die, but its cuz of a lack of capatibility. A truly good clan can get through loses and setbacks. More clans need to form under friendship and ideals, rather than just skills and cuz the clan would be the best. I have to use DOM as an example, cuz I know it best obviously =) When DOM was formed, it was just me and PolishPlaya (who is one of my best friends in real life). Then we got vj, who we knew from our previous clan, RiP and who we were cool with. Then we got Acid , who wasnt good at that point yet. Both Acid and vj learned a lot from me and Polish and eventually got better. Then we had a few other players who joined who werent "all stars" or anything. Adrenaline, Fury, Jballz eventually. Fury and Jballz are friends in real life, so once we got one, we got the other. And then we hit it off and realized we had a lot in common. Neither of them were good either at that time, but after a while they were as good as anyone. So the point is, DOM never died and never will as long as we are still intersted in paintball because our clan is about more than just winning. We are 0-3 since Paintball 2 came out and could care less. The way most clans are formed, they would be fighting amongst each other right now and disband by now. Having clans like what Prozak was before, where a whole bunch of good players were on the same clan, isnt healthy for the whole community. Its better to have a bunch of 6-8 man clans that are compatible and get along. Its more rewarding anyway to become a sucessfulll clan that way, than to just put together a bunch of random good players.
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I throw smoke in the base to encourage my teammates to leave the base and actually do something usefull.
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So it's you that does that? Bain, you asshat.
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It's funny.. above bain made a post as if we had a strategy to give away. Our only real strategy is cocker spray and 500k rates to pj the other team and not us so we can win easy.
Duh.
I've also let eR33t borrow the MB Ping Modulator a couple times. Stupid y2j broke it, though. Word of advice: Don't try to stick a ping modulator in your pooper.
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ah the good old days of the ping modulator
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This board is such an incredible waste of time!!