Jitspoe on cheating

[m7feettall]

you are trying to put hackers/cheats up there with creators and distributors. hacks have been around forever and a day and so has jitspoe's system to rid them from the community(atleast for a while). half the kids that get caught hacking don't visit the forums and don't know what the standard time is. i know other games handle cheaters in different ways. i've seen some that hand out perm bans for the first offense no matter what. jitspoe set the standard long ago. you've only been around a few months and already want to change what has been around since the beginning. i realize you are trying to do it for the better of the community, or are you infact trying to do it for yourself? i don't see many here siding with you. if i am wrong please forgive me. i think we all realize that 32 days is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. people see it as not enough time to justify not trying out a hack to see what it is or what it feels like. but what they don't realize is once they load the hack and get caught all hope to join a decent clan and have a decent rep has gone out the window. i believe the embarrassment and the increasing ban times are enough to prevent the smart people from doing it.

You quoted yourself, but I assume you meant me.

A. Been around a couple years now. Not that it has much to do with it.

B. Already addressed a way to not penalize noobs who don't know the ban times.

C. Do you really think a lot of clans turn away hackers?

D. I am not worried how many agree with me. It is not a popularity contest.

Some committee members already said they would like the option of having longer ban times in another thread. 

 I am highlighting the need for  a deterrent because I think it is the right thing to do. If in the end it fails I can say I tried.
 

[coLa]

i quoted myself so you could read it again just incase you missed it the first time.

A. if this is true why have you only recently decided to start trying to change things? i haven't seen you post before. or were you one of those people more obsessed in playing than actually putting in some forum time? anyways might as well drop this issue since it really doesn't matter.

B. i kind of understand what you mean by this, but like i've said before, you can't put hackers/cheaters on the level of creators and distributors.

C. yes i honestly do. atleast it's frowned upon in more of the "established" clans. whether or not they choose to let hackers join is up to them, but the rep will always be with you.

i'll admit i never opened your other threads on this issue so i don't know what has already been discussed.

[m7feettall]

i quoted myself so you could read it again just incase you missed it the first time.

A. if this is true why have you only recently decided to start trying to change things? i haven't seen you post before. or were you one of those people more obsessed in playing than actually putting in some forum time? anyways might as well drop this issue since it really doesn't matter.

Funny you should mention that. Some would remember me bringing up another issue to try to change it. Took some comments on that one too.

But sure, we can drop that point.

B. i kind of understand what you mean by this, but like i've said before, you can't put hackers/cheaters on the level of creators and distributors.

So don't. The committee will decide on each case rather than mandating a slap on the wrist 32 days.

C. yes i honestly do. atleast it's frowned upon in more of the "established" clans. whether or not they choose to let hackers join is up to them, but the rep will always be with you.

Well here are a few examples.

Warhead- was in CF the two or so days he was back.
Homing, Wanted-Atmays already said he wouldn't kick them even if they were guilty. Of course now Atmays says he might leave the game.
Flame-still seems to find clans
brigade-still in a clan, though I am not sure how active.
Skater-still joined a clan
ak-47- still in a clan.
Cola-yup, your still in a clan.


And we have a former hacker on the committee. So it didn't hurt him too much.

i'll admit i never opened your other threads on this issue so i don't know what has already been discussed.

They didn't all like my approach but  some committee members said they wanted the option of a longer ban time when assigning punishments. 

Here is the thread if you just have to read it:

http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=12246.0

[coLa]

So don't. The committee will decide on each case rather than mandating a slap on the wrist 32 days.

if you have been around a couple years, why are you only know trying to change the bans times around? why not back when you started?

Well here are a few examples.

Warhead- was in CF the two or so days he was back.
Homing, Wanted-Atmays already said he wouldn't kick them even if they were guilty. Of course now Atmays says he might leave the game.
Flame-still seems to find clans
brigade-still in a clan, though I am not sure how active.
Skater-still joined a clan
ak-47- still in a clan.
Cola-yup, your still in a clan.

i guess you missed the part where i said "established" clans.

warhead - lmfao.

homing, wanted - lmfao. atmays is standing by them. i can see why he wouldn't kick them. i don't even think it's his clan to do the kicking.

flame - flame makes more clans than he joins.

brigade - is he in starz? starz are just a bunch of hypocrites.

skater and i didn't hack to "gain an edge" we did it because we were bored of the game and wanted a nice fun way to take a break.

ak-47 - who is that.

the only established clan on that list would be starz. that is, if that is the clan brigade is in. any newbie clan will take anyone reguardless  of their past.

And we have a former hacker on the committee. So it didn't hurt him too much.

you know as well as anyone else that the "elections" were nothing but a popularity contest.

They didn't all like my approach but  some committee members said they wanted the option of a longer ban time when assigning punishments. 

Here is the thread if you just have to read it:

http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=12246.0

i don't want to read it actually. i wasn't involved in the last thread, therefore it doesn't involve me.

[Henkka]

This same thing has been discussed in like three threads before. How many more you are going to start?

[coLa]

enough to get his point across

[m7feettall]

if you have been around a couple years, why are you only know trying to change the bans times around? why not back when you started?

I think when I started my own clan it became more of an issue for me to read the ban reports so as to avoid folks who caused problems in the past.

i guess you missed the part where i said "established" clans.

I realize you only consider about three clans established. But I will simply disagree.

warhead - lmfao.

Warhead is a laughable case due to his repeated bans for various offenses. And yet he found a place in a clan.  And though CF has now gone inactive it was not a bad clan.

homing, wanted - lmfao. atmays is standing by them. i can see why he wouldn't kick them. i don't even think it's his clan to do the kicking. 

You can see why he wouldn't kick them--which is the issue. Friendship overcomes a clan's aversion to cheaters. Therefore cheating does not prevent clan membership or a strong aversion to cheaters.

flame - flame makes more clans than he joins.

Perhaps. But then he apparently gets folks to go along with it.

brigade - is he in starz? starz are just a bunch of hypocrites.

Hypocritical or not, he is in the clan.

skater and i didn't hack to "gain an edge" we did it because we were bored of the game and wanted a nice fun way to take a break.

You hacked, and I could care less why you did. I read the threads. But any hacking is a stupid example and should not be looked on as no big deal. 

ak-47 - who is that.

http://dplogin.com/index.php?action=viewmember&playerid=21893

the only established clan on that list would be starz. that is, if that is the clan brigade is in. any newbie clan will take anyone reguardless  of their past.

I don't judge honor by the skill of the clan. And I ran a noob clan for 7 months and we did not take cheaters or multi-accounters.

you know as well as anyone else that the "elections" were nothing but a popularity contest.

And does that not prove the point? An ex-cheater was perfectly popular. There was no stigma.

i don't want to read it actually. i wasn't involved in the last thread, therefore it doesn't involve me.

Your choice.

[lekky]

I think m7feettall has started to realise cheating isn't black and white, and a perm-like ban time wouldn't be the best option in many cases.

Its difficult to increase ban time for cheating that is based on, for instance how long you've played the game, if you are a member of the forums, or are an active member of the community. It leaves too much subjectivity, and you'd find that the same situation will probably result in a different ban length simply due to unavoidable human nature, which makes a lot of errors

I can understand you not wanting to play with people who hack, but not everyone who hacks does it for the same reasons, and a lot don't realise the stigma attached to it, and basically don't see it as a bad thing... A 32 day ban changes most of these peoples misinformed attitudes...

[coLa]

I don't judge honor by the skill of the clan. And I ran a noob clan for 7 months and we did not take cheaters or multi-accounters.

i'm not basing this off skill. i'm basing it off how long the clan has been active. cF was barely around for a few months. all these others clans come and go on a daily basis. it is true that online friendships usually over-come all the trivial things. we(you) can't change peoples minds. but like you said, atleast you are trying. but if this is the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th thread on the issue don't you think it's about time you give it up? it hasn't changed yet, doubt it's going to change. i guess we can all applaud your efforts in sticking up for something you believe.

I think m7feettall has started to realise cheating isn't black and white, and a perm-like ban time wouldn't be the best option in many cases.

Its difficult to increase ban time for cheating that is based on, for instance how long you've played the game, if you are a member of the forums, or are an active member of the community. It leaves too much subjectivity, and you'd find that the same situation will probably result in a different ban length simply due to unavoidable human nature, which makes a lot of errors

I can understand you not wanting to play with people who hack, but not everyone who hacks does it for the same reasons, and a lot don't realise the stigma attached to it, and basically don't see it as a bad thing... A 32 day ban changes most of these peoples misinformed attitudes...

agree.

[Spook]

Just to clear that up, brigade is not in starz.

[m7feettall]

Just to clear that up, brigade is not in starz.

True, he is in IJ. However, AK-47 does appear to be in starz, and warwulf was previously in starz.

 

[m7feettall]

I think m7feettall has started to realise cheating isn't black and white, and a perm-like ban time wouldn't be the best option in many cases.

Its difficult to increase ban time for cheating that is based on, for instance how long you've played the game, if you are a member of the forums, or are an active member of the community. It leaves too much subjectivity, and you'd find that the same situation will probably result in a different ban length simply due to unavoidable human nature, which makes a lot of errors

I can understand you not wanting to play with people who hack, but not everyone who hacks does it for the same reasons, and a lot don't realise the stigma attached to it, and basically don't see it as a bad thing... A 32 day ban changes most of these peoples misinformed attitudes...

It may be subjective but it is not without warrant. If Jits can see the difference in cheating in a match vs. running a speed cheat for five minutes in an obscure pub I think the committee could to.

Since some of them have asked for the right to decide based on the situation I would like to see that possibility given to them.  If you think that 32 days is sufficient then vote that way.

[lekky]

It may be subjective but it is not without warrant. If Jits can see the difference in cheating in a match vs. running a speed cheat for five minutes in an obscure pub I think the committee could to.

I would tend ro agree, natch hacking is probably a greater offence than pub hacking, i doub't anyone would disagree with that?

Since some of them have asked for the right to decide based on the situation I would like to see that possibility given to them.  If you think that 32 days is sufficient then vote that way.

Probably a good idea in theory, i'm uncertain whether this is a good idea in practice. Like I mentioned before, the decision would be based on many variables a lot of which are inaccessible and theres so much potential for getting details wrong its untrue..  It would also increase committee decision making time

A good start might be then to have separate ban times for pub or match server hacking? If so I'd keep the 32 day ban for pubs as 16 doesn't send the correct message to new players. 64 for people who, if they managed to get into a match server probably do know better, hack in a match server?

How to define a match server?

[i_am_a_pirate]

Why do people flame jits for releasing hackers? Sure he releases them to early, but its his game (sort of) and he can do what he wants. In my opnion, hackers should get an immediate 128 day ban, then a 1k day ban. I use pball2 all the time and if i were to hack (i have once searched for cheats AND USED NOTHING) I flippin well would expect severe punishments. 32 days is nothing.