Author Topic: New Map: Zen  (Read 6993 times)

Apocalypse

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2007, 02:44:55 PM »

Sonny

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2007, 03:55:40 PM »
S2...

Termin8oR

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2007, 03:16:17 PM »
Wow, the map looks so great.
Awesome job.

Bling

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2007, 04:16:16 PM »
Nice Nice. Good work guys. Haven't seen or talked to you in a really long time, nice to see you're still around Reed, my love.

Reed

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2007, 04:42:38 PM »
Kiss kiss

jitspoe

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2007, 05:22:01 PM »
Very nice, visually, but the r_speeds are though the roof.  I've attached a demo to show some things that need to be worked on.  You really need to avoid having more than 1 plane of water visible at a time.  I'd suggest finding an alternative to the waterfall.  Not only do you have a bunch of layers of water visible at once, but it's silly to be able to swim up a waterfall.

Edit: Also keep in mind that all those tempent effects add to the network traffic as well, so be careful not to go overboard.  They ended up making the demo close to 1 meg just from walking around and chatting.

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2007, 06:07:37 PM »
Hmm I wasn't aware of the increase in traffic from the temp ents. If its too much of a problem then we'll try and curb it but otherwise we'll try and leave it or space out the timer-triggers a bit more to make it more efficient.

You showed us some really good things we hadn't thought of in the demo, cheers for taking the time to make it. I for one had no idea about the multiple render passes for the reflective water, i thought it was 2x and thats it. We'll work on cleaning all that up. Also, we had no idea we were vis'ing the main base through the wall from the cave. It's odd because we tried to make sure that area Vis'd properly, though when stood at the bottom of the rocky stairs it was very bad. There are infact Hint Brushes where you indicate, but obviously they aren't producing th eintending results so we'll look into that. We've been working on alterations to the map already to address a lot of the things you showed us, mostly concerning the R_speeds. The Waterfall is gone, so don't worry about that - to be honest it was a thingummy left over from needing a straightforward visblocker for the mid/cave.

We did mention in the original post that reflective water would more often than not need to be turned off to play the map, and even after our optimisations i can't see us maintaining the level of detail and reflective water - and still keeping very high fps on EVERYONES system. However, we're really trying to keep it down and if we can't get it acceptable levels then we'll see about some very much more drastic alterations.

Thanks for the feedback, hopefully we'll have beta 2 to show you soon enough!

- Rick Dagless

y00tz

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2007, 10:14:39 PM »
As I've said before, seeing your maps makes all the hours spent on the CTP worth it.  Thanks for lending your skills to this community.

-y00tz

jitspoe

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2007, 01:29:14 PM »
Hm, I'm not sure why one room is visible from the other like that then.  Make sure you don't have any cracks or detail brushes separating the rooms, otherwise vis will "see" right through those walls.

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2007, 03:52:41 PM »
ok, we've retooled the map quite heavily and solved a lot of the issues you mentioned. Also, the gameplay of the map is changed now, but that shall be revealed when we release beta 2.

However, we're having real trouble getting the base to vis correctly. we've tried a lot and still the 'dry' base is visible from the cave base through the wall. I can't understand why. This doesn't pose too much of a problem when reflective water is off, but when it is on, you're looking at a peak of 7000 w_polys looking across the bridge at a wall.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, we've tried hint brushes and such, it seems to be an anomaly in the vis'ing process.

- Dagless

Edit: And no sooner do I post this, I get it to work. Turns out it was caused by the weird automatic 'cut lines' set on BSP's boundaries (like 0,0 on X&Y) etc...

jitspoe

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2007, 08:18:30 PM »
Took a look at your europaint version and made a demo of some more things that need tweaking.  Love the icicles, by the way.

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2007, 04:53:13 AM »
Hey jits,

thanks a lot for taking the time to make these videos, they help out a lot when going over the maps again.

zen_europaint is a sort of stop-gap edition of Zen between b1 and b2 as pureblood and lekky needed it very soon for europaint3, so its not perfect but I think its passable for the players in the tourney. I'll address all those issues you raised in b2.

A few odd points, I'll definately try the waterfall texture out, the warping effect is weird - on my client I don't have reflective water on ever and it still warped. If its making a load of reflection planes then I'll probably have to do what you said and make it mist. Ill also try putting the water feature and the cave pond on the same plane, I hadn't realised r_speeds would go quite that high at that point with reflective water on (about 3000 without).

Thanks again,

Dagless

jitspoe

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2009, 11:18:35 PM »
So this map came up on the beta server today, so I figured I'd give some feedback.  I hope you still plan to work on it.

- I'm sure I mentioned this before, but there are way too many water surfaces.  I ended up just shutting reflective water off while playing as it caused the framerate to tank.  Taking the warp flag off of the waterfalls and making sure you only have one level of water visible at a time would help a lot.
- The waterfall path is way too slow.  I seem to remember this being different in the europaint version, but it's been a while since I've played it.  It needs to be fast enough that you can intercept people taking the other path.
- I have mixed feelings about the middle flag.  Perhaps gameplay with it would improve if the waterfall path was faster.
- Some of the spawns (the one on the bench, in particular) do not give you ammo or co2.  Is this intentional?  Sometimes it's difficult to find ammo, and there isn't any near that spawn.
- I'd replace all the red metal texture (on the lights, etc.) on the blue half with blue.  I got disoriented once because of that.

I've attached a demo of some gameplay, as sometimes that helps

Lapppy

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2009, 09:30:32 PM »
Eek!! download links dont work  :o

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2009, 03:32:53 AM »
What an epic bump!

Cheers for the comments jits, it's been a long time since I looked at the .map for Zen, that's for sure! Zen b1 was kind of ridiculously thought out, though I learned quite a lot from its many, many flaws. The europaint edition was an attempt at rationalising it and working out a lot of the gameplay bugs (as well as the ridiculous r_speeds!), but time constraints meant that I couldn't polish it up completely before the tournament. I think I'd quite like to revive Zen, although it'd be the 3rd pretty hefty map I'd be taking on at the moment, so it might be a while before I can get another beta out. I don't think I posted a link to zen_europaint on here, so when I get in from work I'll post a link to that and a link to the original b1 for anyone who's curious (Lapppy!).

Cheers,

- Dag

T3RR0R15T

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DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: New Map: Zen
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2009, 11:16:16 AM »
Actually, I was going to re-upload the entire distributable, the maps have a lot of custom textures and anyone who doesn't possess them won't be able to run the map properly.

- Dag