DP Survivor Expedition (oh god i'm so lost)

[S8NSSON]

Let me first start out by saying a few things. I have been playing DP (DigitalPaint Paintball 2), in some capacity, for many years. I have been in clans. I have created maps; of which most probably suck really bad.

My intention here is not to bash anyone. My intention is to ramble senselessly about my thoughts on map-making for DP. These are my thoughts and you may or may not agree with them.

The problem:
As I played a pickup game the other night I found myself in a map called Summer. Nice map. It looks pretty. Nice structure. But the map rambles on forever. What is the point? Shouldn’t DP maps be simpler? Shouldn’t you be able to traverse a DP map without getting lost? What is the point of hallways, pathways, and corridors that go on for an eternity? Isn’t confrontation, over exploration, the point of DP?

I don’t know about you, but I want the bell to ring, gather my gear, purge my CO2, and arrive at the point of confrontation in less than a minute. In some instances I think it’s a nice twist to have the initial confrontational point so close that you have to decide on whether to purge immediately and face an opponent rush, or wait to purge and be the rush.

Now I’m only pointing out Summer because it’s fresh in my mind. There are plenty of other maps out there that are similar. Painted Forest is a good example, and I’m sure you can think of many more. Why are we making maps with, literally, miles of long winding areas that make you feel like you are on survivor rather than playing a fun confrontational game?

For me I would like these maps tightened up a bit. A nice defendable base, and a transitional area that leads to an initial confrontational point (or multiple transitional areas leading to multiple initial confrontational points, or any combination there of.) make for an exciting, action packed map.

I hope I don’t make anyone mad by this post. I just get a little annoyed when I gather my gear, purge my CO2, and have to skippity-hop for 10 virtual miles before I ever come in contact with the enemy. Those 10 virtual miles are precious minutes wasted during the limited time I can spend on the PC as it is. When I come, I come to play. So let’s get our play on, and stop the expeditions into virtual no-mans-land.

S8NSSON
Just a nobody from nowhere

[jitspoe]

1 mile = 5280 feet.  Assuming a player is 6 ft tall, that's 880 player heights.  Players are 56 units tall, so that makes for a grand total of 49280 units.  Quake2 is limited to +/- 4096 units, so it would not be possible to make a 1-mile stretch, much less a 10-mile stretch.   Considering you can strafe-jump in excess of 60mph, it would only take a minute to cover a 1-mile stretch if such a thing could exist.  -4096 to 4096 is only 1/6th of a mile, which could concieveably be crossed in 10 seconds or less, provided there are no obstructions.  Summer is considerably smaller than this and you can hit action within a few seconds.

I think your main problem was getting lost and going in circles, lol.  Once you get the hang of the map it's not really all that big or complex.  There's a high path and a low path, and that's about it.

I don't think pforest is big at all... jump over the hump, over the water, and over the hay bails and you're at the point of contact.  Personally I like maps that take more than 2 seconds to get from one base to the other.   What I don't like are maps like indune where they can be fairly large, but there's only one path, so really there's on point in being large.

[loial21]

perfect exmaple of stradegy killing the action

[Eiii]

Once you get around the map some, you start to get it. If there's a map I don't understand, I start a local server, and try to get from my base to theirs every possible way, until I know what the map's paths are.

Another good way to do this is be an observer, turn on noclip, and go really high in the sky and look down. that should give you a good overview of what the map is like.

[jitspoe]

One good thing to note for mappers, though, is with large maps you should always have some kind of indicators as to where you are.  Landmarks, if you will, along with team color indicators.  With summer there are rock walls and waterfalls everywhere, with very little indication as to even what team's side you're on.  Once you know the map, it's not bad, but the first time you play, you can end up running in circles for a while.

Personally, though, I think if you don't get a bit lost and confused the first time you play a map, then the map is too simple.  Maps need to be unique in order to keep the gameplay fresh, otherwise what's the point of having different maps?

perfect exmaple of stradegy killing the action

What is?  Summer was good fun!  And weren't you the one begging to play it anyway?

[loial21]

he has several valid point that you can not logically explain away , so just pretend he did not say them .

here they are

areas that make you feel like you are on survivor rather than playing a fun confrontational game?
 
I hope I don’t make anyone mad by this post. I just get a little annoyed when I gather my gear, purge my CO2, and have to skippity-hop for 10 virtual miles before I ever come in contact with the enemy. Those 10 virtual miles are precious minutes wasted during the limited time I can spend on the PC as it is. When I come, I come to play. So let’s get our play on, and stop the expeditions into virtual no-mans-land.

S8NSSON
Just a nobody from nowhere

I would like to emphisize this most

10 virtual miles are precious minutes wasted during the limited time I can spend on the PC as it is. 

Added up over time he is correct why detract from confrontation? Is that not the whole porpuse of playing a first person shooter and not MYST , lol i am dam funny.

and btw nice camp err fortressing on the flag u lamo

[jitspoe]

Why not make a football field 10 feet long.  The whole point is to make touchdowns, right?

Actually, that's a poor example.  Football is boring as hell.

Anyway, my point is that there is more to paintball than just confrontation.

[S8NSSON]

Maaaan...I'm not a newb...and I completey know (not off the top of my head mind you) all the to-real-world conversions to 12 decimal places. In laymans term the distance from one side of the available mapping space to the other in any direction (up, down, sideways) is just short of three football fields...great.

I guess we all don't get the sarcasm, or exaggeration.

I've played long enough to have a very large number of maps memorized. Here is part of my mind's navigational programming for one base in Brainstorm; "Purge, find co2 before purge finishes, resolve shortest rout to my designated/decided ultimate position or objective passing through the objects I require (barrel hopper marker ammo co2) along the way, left,right, left, left, left, right, left, left, possible action". It seriously becomes an attempt to run a long flawless obstacle course at the bell in order to be first to the point of confrontation. For match maps I prefer to have the initial confrontation zone just far enough away from the base that you can give adequate recon to your defense if the front is compromised. *I know, I don't match, or give recon lately.* And I like the same, or shorter, maps for public games. That's just my preference. Others may like the "obstacle course to battle" maps.

S8NSSON

[Dirty_Taco]

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[S8NSSON]

EEGADS cmon people...what is the "Rings my bell" quoted crap DT? Any reference I made to "bell rings" is a reference to the countdown to the beginning of any game. Was that not clear? I think it was. What rings my bell is NOT to have to go left left left right left right right right left right before i get to the action, or was that not clear? No, I think it was clear. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Summer is a nice map. I only used it as an example of long marathon runs before you get to the action. Brainstorm could have been use as well as many others. If I got in Summer and went through it I will have to navigate multiple turns and jumps befor I would reach the center. All i'm saying is I don't paticularly care for that. Being new to the map had nothing to do with it. I've been new to maps before, and I know large long maps very well (Brainstorm). I JUST don't like having to run a marathon to get to the action.

Summer's critigue: You get STUCK in the water. There's nothing to let you know which side of the map you're on. The paths are not clearly marked. The latter is really a newbie thing cause once you learn the map you simply know that you have to go left left right right down up right left ACTION (this does not actually represent any real path to the middle).

Look I was just stating my opinion on long winding marathon run maps that take you an extended period of time to finally reach confrontation. Longer than "get your stuff, purge you c02, get everyone in position and ready" before one offense reaches the other in the "INITIAL confrontation area" is too long for me. You like what you like, I like what I like. Does that mean I hate these bloated maps? No, I like most of them just fine. I simply PREFER something else. I can memorize a whole lot of left/right/jump/ combinations to get me through these long sections if I play a map enough.

Jitspoe just erase this thread please.
I feel like I feel, no one is gonna change that, I don't expect to change anyone else, keep making the long skippity-hop competition maps. No harm no foul.

S8NSSON

[Dirty_Taco]

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[S8NSSON]

I just have to say, DT, the map is actually very well buit IMHO. And you can just go to hell with that water joke. My ass was stuck in there all round a few times. I would definately rather see Summer played instead of many/most of the other maps i've played lately.

That new Midnight is actually pretty fun. But having the original Mid drilled into my head for years still makes me flinch in the wrong direction on the new one. I think Steeple15 is a fairly descent map too. I Don't know it that well, but i think (unless i'm missing an alternative path) the extreme bottle neck right at the base entrance is a minus for that map.

S8NSSON

[Blitz]

I've always thought Midnight2 was the best-looking and least-entertaing map...

[Dirty_Taco]

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