Do clip brushes stop leaks? My leak line file wont open

[ViciouZ]

What rick said. That all considered, I really like the architectural style in the map.

[twilightsparkl]

Alright, you should really listen to the people that are trying to help you, they know what they're talking about.

So I downloaded your map and here is what I see;
-Many overlapped Brushes
-Very complex brushes (heavy on the r_speeds)
-The above combined.
-Over complicated brushes (Those that can be a single brush eg. Some of your walls).
-Incorrect use of Clip brushes.
-Many leaks.

What I recommend
(This is what I would do);
-Scrap this map.
-Have a look over tutorials.
-Learn some basic rules/how r_speeds are calculated.
-Make a very simple map, with very simple brushes.
-Start a Topic in the Mapping section and provide .map file.
-Ask for feedback on your technique in the same topic.
-Once you have your basic techniques down, move on to some harder techniques. Harder brushes. Harder structures, etc.
-In the same topic, update your first post within that topic to include this .map file and ask for feedback.
-Continue this.
-Once you have good technique, making maps that are very well structured, visually appealing and so on will become a breeze!

Well, that's my opinion anyway.


Some tips:
-Use the grid. It's there for a reason. Try not to stray to 1 unit.
-Detailing brushes will help reduce r_speeds.
-Clip brushes are used as 'invisible objects', in the sense that a player can't see it in game, but it will still stop you from going through it. Even though you can shoot through it. (Can't be used as something to block the inside of your map, from the outside of it(will produce a leak)).
-Sky Brushes; These are used to provide lighting and skies to your maps.

I also attached your map, with skies and a full compile done. Just so you know, a full compile won't work if you have leaks, which you did.

Thanks for the compile, I know I am somewhat newb but I am trying to listen to other people's opinions, there are a couple of things I don't understand or agree with though, like putting a skybrush directly on a wall, since it will have odd effects like dissapearing paintballs and bouncing grens. And yes its filled with complex brushes, it's supposed to look like a q3 quality map. Unless you think the gameplay is terrible I don't want to scrap this map. I do use the grid also. and I have mapped two other maps which are much simpler than this one. =)

PS: Is there something wrong with overlapped brushes, and can I see the map file you did so I can learn what I did wrong? Where exactly were the leaks? Did I have leaks besides the clip brushes?

and vicouz thanks for liking the style

[Rockyar_96]

PS: Is there something wrong with overlapped brushes, and can I see the map file you did so I can learn what I did wrong?

Yes it is. Overlapping brushes are bad mapping style and cause high r_speeds and graphic bugs(not always). Just learn to avoid them

[twilightsparkl]

But in this case would subdividing them via subtract be any faster?

[Rockyar_96]

dont use that substract tool too often, it makes everything far too complicated.

[twilightsparkl]

dont use that substract tool too often, it makes everything far too complicated.

but if i dont use the subtract, i end up with overlapping brushes...so which is worse?

[jitspoe]

Some overlap is OK, but you should never have 2 faces that overlap.

Example:

Code: [Select]

|\
| \____
| |\___|
|___\

OK overlap.  The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of a solid brush:

Code: [Select]

|\
| \____
|   ___|
|___\

Bad overlap:

Code: [Select]

._____
|_|___|
| |
| |
| |
|_|

The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of the solid brush, however, there will be two polygons rendered on the top and top left where the brushes overlap.  To fix that, make the brushes like this:

Code: [Select]

._____
|\____|
| |
| |
| |
|_|


[Rockyar_96]

but if i dont use the subtract, i end up with overlapping brushes...so which is worse?

use your brains and mapping skills.

[twilightsparkl]

Some overlap is OK, but you should never have 2 faces that overlap.

Example:

Code: [Select]

|\
| \____
| |\___|
|___\

OK overlap.  The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of a solid brush:

Code: [Select]

|\
| \____
|   ___|
|___\

Bad overlap:

Code: [Select]

._____
|_|___|
| |
| |
| |
|_|

The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of the solid brush, however, there will be two polygons rendered on the top and top left where the brushes overlap.  To fix that, make the brushes like this:

Code: [Select]

._____
|\____|
| |
| |
| |
|_|


thanks that was really helpful.

[Rick]

Thanks for the compile, I know I am somewhat newb but I am trying to listen to other people's opinions, there are a couple of things I don't understand or agree with though, like putting a skybrush directly on a wall, since it will have odd effects like dissapearing paintballs and bouncing grens. And yes its filled with complex brushes, it's supposed to look like a q3 quality map. Unless you think the gameplay is terrible I don't want to scrap this map. I do use the grid also. and I have mapped two other maps which are much simpler than this one. =)

PS: Is there something wrong with overlapped brushes, and can I see the map file you did so I can learn what I did wrong? Where exactly were the leaks? Did I have leaks besides the clip brushes?

and vicouz thanks for liking the style

Well, I thought you said you didn't want the paintballs to bounce off it? So what do you want to happen to them?

If I do that then people who happen to shoot upward will have their paint randomly bounce off an invisible ceiling.

Well, I haven't played quake3 before, but I doubt they overlap a bunch of complex brushes. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
You can keep the map, but it's probably going to be just as easy to start over with the same idea, using better techniques. Resulting in a better map.
Well, I'd keep practicing to be honest! You've got more stuff to learn

Like Jitspoe has posted; You have multiple brushes within brushes, imagine what that is doing to the compiler
I'll attach the map, all I did was what others suggested. (Don't put clip brushes where sky brushes should be).
Oh, your leaks WERE THE CLIP BRUSHES. Clip brushes aren't visible! They're just like trans33/66 brushes, you can see through them. The basic rule of thumb is that you aren't allowed to see the 'space' or 'outside map' or 'blurry stuff' (aka holes in your map) which are considered leaks! Just think of it as filling your map with water, will water leak out some place where only a player can be blocked (clip brush)? Yes.

But in this case would subdividing them via subtract be any faster?

Please don't use subtract. Sometimes it works well, and as expected. The other times it makes the brush you're subtracting WAY over complex. Have a look at this example (Very simple example). The one on the right has been subtracted, one on the left I made. From it, you can see that the subtract tool doesn't pick the best brush, rather it splits it into multiple brushes.

but if i dont use the subtract, i end up with overlapping brushes...so which is worse?

In most cases, you'd be able to avoid both. It's not really a case of choosing either, please provide some details and I'll try to help you on this one. (Maybe provide me with a sample map?).


 

[twilightsparkl]

Well, I thought you said you didn't want the paintballs to bounce off it? So what do you want to happen to them?

I wish it just acted like a normal sky, where stuff doesn't collide with it. Would setting it to mist work?

Well, I haven't played quake3 before, but I doubt they overlap a bunch of complex brushes. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

I mean the archetectural style that only the player sees.

You can keep the map, but it's probably going to be just as easy to start over with the same idea, using better techniques. Resulting in a better map.

Maybe better r_speeds but I see no reason to start over unless you have concrete gameplay or archetectural changes in mind that I should do.

Well, I'd keep practicing to be honest! You've got more stuff to learn

I hope not too much is left to learn! =P

[Rockyar_96]

I wish it just acted like a normal sky, where stuff doesn't collide with it. Would setting it to mist work?

No same as clip just not transparant and players can walk trough. Would leak

[jitspoe]

I've never actually tried sealing a map with a mist brush... I know they can block visibility, so it's possible they could seal a map...