Author Topic: PB lining experiment  (Read 6532 times)

Ranger

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PB lining experiment
« on: November 13, 2016, 05:43:32 AM »
Hello, I want to do a little experiment. Goal of this experiment is to find out with which success is player able to pass through lines and survive (after gaining speed). Im going to create a little statistic. This experiment take place on map "Airtime" and I need two assistants who will be standing on one place and only line. One player should be good and the second normal pub player :)

Whole experiment will take I believe 30-40 min... And the end result with demo will be published here on forum ;)

Zenit

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2016, 07:50:39 AM »
You should care about the servers aswell. We made this kind of experiment some months ago, to compare hitboxes on otb and arctic servers. Its almost impossible to walk through lines on arctic, while you can do this really easily on otb. Jeongwa uploaded the result on YouTube and it was pretty ridiculous.

So compare lines on OTB and arctic servers, it will be pretty funny/weird.

Mission

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2016, 08:42:14 AM »
It is also worth noting that the angle of incidence of the player's velocity relative to the line affects the success rate of walking through it. 90 degrees gives maximum probability of walking through line successfully, whereas 0 degrees gives 0 probability of walking through line successfully.

Would be good if you could graph angle of incidence to success rate, and also velocity of player to success rate, Ranger.

And also for different servers, pings, players (looking at rockitude, you nondie)

In answer to your question, i would be happy to help at some point.

Ranger

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 12:56:13 PM »
Ok Mission, thx for your offer :) now I need 2nd assistant, who should be undoubtedly "better" than mission... Or "worse"... I need 2 different skill levels :)

Mission

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2016, 03:07:44 PM »
You won't find someone undoubtedly better than me - LG x

Squeeze

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2016, 05:51:08 PM »
Instead of full-beating (normal strafe jumping) use half-beating technique, you will go through 75% of the lines. Easy and fastest movement you can do in dp2.

Working in dp2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw3vIeLPPHs

Squeeze

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 08:26:18 PM »

JeongWa

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2016, 11:08:24 PM »
Instead of full-beating (normal strafe jumping) use half-beating technique, you will go through 75% of the lines. Easy and fastest movement you can do in dp2.

Normal strafe and half-beating are equally faster if done properly.

The avantage of half-beating is just that you don't have to move your mouse / crosshair as much as if you would strafe "Normaly" and so you can focus easier on your aim. But it has nothing to do with surviability.

There is alot of factors that makes running trough lines possible :

- The travel time
- Guns
- Hitbox
- Positionning / angle of the line
- The mouvements of the person shooting, for exemple if you jump while shoting, your accuracy while decrease alot
- The speed of the person running trough your line
- the accuracy of the person shooting the bullets.
- Ballspeed and the period of "timeout" between bullets where there is no bullets.
- Distances

And alot more.

Relying on lines and focusing your gameplay around it against a good player is a mistake. There is a high chance that it will go wrong and that your opponent will abuse you by bypassing your line for X reasons.

As Zenit mentionned, we already did a similar test. The results were crazy, you could litteraly dance into someone's line with the wrong ballspeed.

So, you have to get in mind that:

- The test we made was a 90 degree angle test, someone was standing and linning, the other person was just walking trough the line.
- You have a CHANCE to make it trough a line (its only a chance, either you will be hit by ONE bullet or not while being in the trajectory of a line).
- However, running trough a line and encountering atleast TWO bullets in the same trajectory will lead up to a certain death because none of the ballspeeds make it possible to slalom between them in the "timeout" period when there is no bullets crossing.

For a brief recap, with the otb ballspeed, a 90 degree angled line with any decent gun on the game was RUNNABLE trough because you would either be hit by ONE bullet or not while being in the trajectory.
However, the same test with the 2660 ballspeed was that you had to run trough TWO bullets in 95% of the time while being in the trajectory so you would end up dead (there is a chance that you make it trough in the "timeout" period when there are no bullets crossing, but it was very rare).

So with the 2660 ballspeed, its NEARLY impossible to run trough a WELL MADE line on Short / Medium distances (with carbin, autococker or automag).

This conclusion made the active scene playing/switching back to the 2660 ballspeed instead. For the long distance shots, its totaly different because the bullet speed is decreasing so much that the bullets are bouncing off players.

Beside that, if you can't hit on short & medium distances, its because of :

- You had a terrible angle and your opponents had to only deal with ONE bullet on the trajectory and the "timeout" between bullets. ( and he made it trough the timeout)
- You had Any other gun than carbin/autococker/automag that has a really low rate of fire (so you didnt hit)
- Your Accuracy wasn't as good as you thought it was Or opponents made it over/under your line.

Anyways, this is the results of the 90 degree line test we made. There is alot of factors to take in consideration.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 02:20:40 AM by JeongWa »

Squeeze

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2016, 07:34:32 AM »
Do not fight with me about half-beating being slower or even with normal full-beating... Even jumper skyline and others used mostly half-beating, said it's the fastest movement in dp2 and proved it in jumping videos. DP2 is basically Quake 2, half-beating is fastest possible movement you can do in this game, no matter what.

rockitude

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2016, 08:16:42 AM »
Do not fight with me about half-beating being slower or even with normal full-beating... Even jumper skyline and others used mostly half-beating, said it's the fastest movement in dp2 and proved it in jumping videos. DP2 is basically Quake 2, half-beating is fastest possible movement you can do in this game, no matter what.

Acutally wallstrafing is the fastest technic.

JeongWa

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2016, 10:36:16 AM »
Do not fight with me about half-beating being slower or even with normal full-beating... Even jumper skyline and others used mostly half-beating, said it's the fastest movement in dp2 and proved it in jumping videos. DP2 is basically Quake 2, half-beating is fastest possible movement you can do in this game, no matter what.

The "normal" strafing and half-beating are just two different ways of strafing but i dont think neither one or the other is faster.

I've been jumping on q2 servers and there are pretty decent jumpers, i can tell that most of them are strafing "normaly" and adjusting it on the next steps they have to do so they can see instead of half-beating which would block most of their mouse movements and so the vision.

Half-beating can actually be a disadvantage just because of that when it comes to jumping.

As Rockitude said, there is only one technic that i can think of which give more speed than the others and its the wall-strafing.

Ranger

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 11:04:00 AM »
Its also experiment in an experiment, because I want also to find out if there is some qualitative difference between line of a "good" player and "bad" player. I already know the result but want to have data :)

Squeeze

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 11:15:44 AM »
Acutally wallstrafing is the fastest technic.

If you use ice then for sure. Without ice, If you use half-beat looking into wall then it's fastest yeah.

The "normal" strafing and half-beating are just two different ways of strafing but i dont think neither one or the other is faster.

I've been jumping on q2 servers and there are pretty decent jumpers, i can tell that most of them are strafing "normaly" and adjusting it on the next steps they have to do so they can see instead of half-beating which would block most of their mouse movements and so the vision.

Half-beating can actually be a disadvantage just because of that when it comes to jumping.

As Rockitude said, there is only one technic that i can think of which give more speed than the others and its the wall-strafing.

I was pointing half-beating and it's fastest speed u can gain just by jumping because of the line experiment. For sure you will not use this jumping mechanic in match, maybe just sometimes where u have to get super fast and that's it. I was talking about it as the fastest possible jump movement you can make in dp2. There are videos that explain why is half-beating faster on youtube. Also skyline explained that to me and that's why he was able to do some crazy jumps even on matchmaking maps what others were not able to do. Wall strafing isn't normal movement and u have to use wall to get speed. Without using anything, half-beating wins. If you will learn it properly, landing everything perfectly, try speedometer, have fun.

rockitude

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2016, 11:35:19 AM »
If you use ice then for sure. Without ice, If you use half-beat looking into wall then it's fastest yeah.

It's faster on normal and ice surface. Just check some replays on for example "fly1".

Ace

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Re: PB lining experiment
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2016, 05:34:50 PM »
People tend to do this when they full beat, but not when they half beat. Less time in the crosshair means less chance to get hit.



- In theory, half and full beat are the exact same speed if both are done in a straight line.
- In practice, full beat wins in the majority of cases due to having more control. Half beat is limited to fairly straight, and predictable lines.

Source: 99% of past and present q2 jump pros