Newmap: Never Forget The Landing Strip

[MyeRs]

Hello,

I present to you, the newest map in the FlaWLesS Mapping Series: Never Forget the Landing Strip (flaw_scbj).

I haven't tried mapping since 2013 - wanted to try again with the current pandemic giving me some extra free time. I've been making bases, and then having 0 ideas when I get to mid... so I decided "lets try something different and make a small 1 flag map". It definitely does not have the most "personality" to it - but it was a learning process.

A few people commented on being able to "line flag from your base" - but anyone who plays DP knows lines are unreliable at 10 feet away, you will never reliably hit flag to flag here. However, if you "trade caps" , it gives a chance for the faster person to still stop the cap. On top of that, anyone camping during play testing never sat on flag.

Notes:
- Cap is made intentionally low so that you must actually touch the flag stand and not just fly over on a jump.
- I have play tested this with a few different people - and it surprisingly played pretty well. We did 2v2 and 3v3. The Co2 not being loaded created a good element to allow for quick rushes etc..
- Textures in the screenshots do not resemble how it will look with Jitspoe's HR4's.

Things I 'probably' will fix for b2:
- My barrels messed up when I flipped, only noticed after compiling.
- Ramp to left to flag messed up
- Some woods not aligned properly
- Depending on further play test, might move 1 spawn into low.

(PS: For any technical things, brief explanations HOW to fix in BSP would be appreciated. As it seems nobody uses BSP anymore so ISSA STRUGGLE).

[Wyze]

I jumped around on it, felt pretty good. Would like to see how it plays as capping is pretty quick.

[3lf]

(PS: For any technical things, brief explanations HOW to fix in BSP would be appreciated. As it seems nobody uses BSP anymore so ISSA STRUGGLE).

I'll start with the basics, set detail flag (IIRC you need to hit 'S' to open the texture menu) on details and that will speed up your compiling time by a lot.
You no longer need to duplicate and rotate the base to get a finished map, BSP can do that for you on the fly.
You can also test the lighting in BSP without compiling.

Map looks nice and it is well detailed. Feel like it is one of those "fail this jump and you lose"-maps but since I haven't playtested it, it's hard to tell. Lighting is pretty uniform and bland. That could be something to work on in b2.

[redguy]

Hi,
i gave your map a quick look. Here are some recommendations I have.
Starting with the textures (i know that you will fix them and you also know this "rule" -- but i also know that new mappers tend to look at the most recent posts before actually starting mapping, so i felt like i had to write it). Try to allign textures right at the start and not at the end of mapping. Thoughts like "Ew, i will correct it when I'm finished" will never work. It will be just too annoying to look at every brush twice at the end (same with the content and surface).
Also, consider changing the marked textures at the picture ice_texture picture(I really hope i can attach them).

I feel like stone would be more fitting than the actual texture. And for the perfectionism, you can see clear texture lines on the walls (referring to the stone_texture).

No idea how to create the smoothness in bsp, last time i worked with that editor was months ago. But I'm pretty sure that its only like 2-clicks to do it in TB (select faces with the stone texture -> reset texture alignment). 3lf can correct me if I'm wrong.




The Ice-To-Flag jump also felt kinda ugly. I'm not the best player, nor am I a good jumper but even when i started at the start of the ice (which is the ideal case) i had somehow difficulties to reach the flag and/or keep my momentum after grabbing (because i had to turn right to my base). I know that you probably know what you are doing gameplay and jump-wise in your maps, but i think that part could be somehow improved, even if it is only a minor annoyance.

The spawns for red are facing the walls. Is that a wobluda/dhemap thing or unwanted? Either way, it can be really annoying (especially for such a "small" map). I also think that the skill-level of a player must be high to actually use this "advantage" against other teams or players.
R_speeds are really good, 1000-1500 is absolutely acceptable, however optimization never hurts. The room is still rendered although you cant see it directly. Test it with gl_showtris 1. Personally i think a fancy door entity shouldn't be used for such a room, consider using mist and maybe even an areaportal to lower wpoly. (More infos for areaportals: https://forums.digitalpaint.org/index.php?topic=8394.msg87974#msg87974)
3lf already pointed it out, the lighting is a huge turnout, please make it more natural.
My last recommendation is another minor annoyance. The walls on the maps are really flat and could be made more detailed. Best examples are probably all sanctum maps and cream. It would definitely give your map a special touch!

[Tini]

belissimo very good map bravo

[jitspoe]

First off: The most glaring issue is the lighting.  Not only does it look bad to have everything uniformly lit, it makes it difficult to determine where ledges and stuff are sticking out.  Use _sun_surface instead of the ambient/minlight settings.

I don't really see what the purpose of the water is.  Seems like it sort of negates having a bunker there, and it also effectively doubles the r_speeds for anybody who has reflective water enabled, so just not having water is going to make the map run a lot smoother on low-end machines.

Some of the paths are kind of awkward.  Like if you try to jump onto that ramp in the back that goes to the flag, it's right at that height where you can't quite jump onto it, and you have to jump up a little bit to the right.  I'd suggest making the little rock ledge stair-type things higher or simply make the ramp come down in the front as well so it's all one fluid hill.  The jump on the barrel to the flag also feels awkward.

As redguy pointed out, waiting until you're done to align the textures is more work than just aligning them as you go, especially with things like barrels where you can make one aligned barrel, lock the texture (alt-L) and clone it (space).  I actually started making a map with a bunch of perfectly aligned barrels that could just be copy/pasted.  Still need to finish that.  Was going to make a bunch of pre-rotated configurations and stuff.

Oh, and making things detailed in BSP to improve compile times like whoa suggested is super easy.  You just press the [+det] button.  You can then go to group|omit detail and make sure you've detailed all the stuff that won't impact vis and haven't detailed things that you didn't mean to.

[MyeRs]

Welcome to Beta 2 - after about 20 matches on it, it plays decently well for a small map.

Changes in B2:

- Removed water
- Rotated flags properly to face proper direction
- Rotated Red Spawns to face towards mid
- Raised Cap point slightly taller (but it is still relatively low as I do not like conceps of capping by jumping way over the cap).
- Aligned red barrels (alright guys they ain't perfect but good enough)
- Adjusted middle terrain to facilitate speedjump (still a more difficult jump, but anyone who has put effort into this game should have no problem)
- Adjusted terrain on wall (right side of mid) to be easier to jump onto/speed to cap
- Adjusted aesthetics of low ice
- Adjusted pillar of bridge near low-ice to make the low jump less "awkward" for bad jumpers
- Changed lighting variables to allow for minor shadows

I don't have anything specific planned for B3 yet - will see how changes in jumps impact gameplay and make judgement then. If Rick wants to do my map like he did Tini's I'll also gladly take credit for it.

[jitspoe]

Lighting looks a LOT better.  Still a lot of misaligned textures, but those can be fixed once the gameplay is dialed in.  Jumps feel like they're deliberately made awkward, but I'll have to check it out in an actual gameplay context to provide more feedback.

[MyeRs]

Lighting looks a LOT better.  Still a lot of misaligned textures, but those can be fixed once the gameplay is dialed in.  Jumps feel like they're deliberately made awkward, but I'll have to check it out in an actual gameplay context to provide more feedback.

Which jumps feel awkward to you?

Some of the jumps were made very easy, some were intentionally made a big harder - but I'm curious which you're trying.

[jitspoe]

The ramp->barrel->flag jump felt, to put it in your phrasing, very "RNG".  A few units to the left or right and it doesn't work.  Also the ramped bunker seemed to be positioned just a bit too far to the right when coming from the ice.  Will provide more feedback after playing it with people.

[MyeRs]

The ramp->barrel->flag jump felt, to put it in your phrasing, very "RNG".  A few units to the left or right and it doesn't work.  Also the ramped bunker seemed to be positioned just a bit too far to the right when coming from the ice.  Will provide more feedback after playing it with people.

Ramp-Barrel-Flag = I mimicked a lot of maps versions where they need to be hit just right - as it only takes about 2 seconds longer to go and ramp off the box/behind to get to flag without any trick jump. Just a slightly faster method for good jumpers. Can probably make it easier, but figured as it is not a necessary path it's not required.

Bunker new ice: It's not meant to be used for ice, ice is pretty easy since removing the extra bridge-pillar to fly too high over the flagstand now. That ramp, you can dj the small box and ramp onto flag, or a slower method, jump on box - then ramp - then CJ to flag. It was just meant to provide some blocking people coming out of low, and a slow method of getting to flag.