Author Topic: new map - cmball  (Read 5228 times)

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new map - cmball
« on: February 27, 2005, 06:23:18 AM »
hi
I have made a new map called cmball, in a 1-flag mode. here you can download it : cmball.bsp
and Jit, can you test it and if cmball is good enought can you put it on a public-server?  :D

greez Pimp

Eiii

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 08:44:36 AM »
Jits doesn't have power over that.

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2005, 10:23:23 AM »
who has?

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2005, 01:29:07 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:19:28 AM by Dirty_Taco »

jitspoe

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2005, 07:05:04 PM »
I checked it out.  It's not bad for a first map, but I don't really care for it, and here's why:

a) It's too small and open -- basically a box with stuff in it.  Practically everybody is in view from the get-go, meaning there's not much room for strategy and it can get really laggy if too many people are on.
b) Overuse of transparent textures.  Don't use blitz and theice for inspiration.  Don't even play these maps lest they corrupt you!  Transparent textures look silly and unrealistic 90% of the time, not to mention further remove strategy.  The windows are OK, though, since they actually serve a practical purpose.

I guess that's about it.  The construction seems solid, so if you applied it to a new map with a more elaborite layout, multiple paths, strategic bunker placement, it could be really good.  Keep at it.

Oh, one last thing.  You don't need to credit ub_cliff for the textures since the textures didn't originally come FROM that map. :)

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2005, 08:23:37 AM »
thank you for your answer, I know, its hard to make good maps like you, but i'll try it

next map is at work....

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2005, 08:50:05 AM »
ah yes, and jit

a little time ago, I have made a bigger and better map, but this map was pretty unplayable, it lagged so extremly. what can i do, that a big map doesn't laggs?

Eiii

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2005, 08:51:59 AM »
well, don't make big open spaces. Those lag up the game. If you make it more complex, like, one large area and a mess of hallways, it won't be so laggy.

And keep in mind some people have better computers than you.

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2005, 09:13:41 AM »
I think its not a problem with the computer capacity, reather than the internet connection, and there i have the pretty fastest.
and if you want to test the other, its not finnished, but to see what a mean: ruin.bsp

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2005, 11:13:00 AM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:19:25 AM by Dirty_Taco »

jitspoe

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2005, 02:02:41 PM »
I can't look at your map at the moment, but I'll give you some pointers:

There are two things you need to worry about: polygon count (causes low framerates or "computer lag") and entity count (network lag or latency).  To see what your polygon count is, type "r_speeds 1" at the console.  Wpoly is the world polygon count.  Keep this as low as possible since these polygons will affect the framerate the most.  Keep them below 1000 if you can.  Under 500 is even better.  Open areas usually have the worst wpoly counts because large surfaces get broken into smaller surfaces by the compiler.  Also there isn't anything to block the visibilty of details so you see everything at once, making the polygon count high and framerate low.  If you want a large, open map, you can use some tricks like snaking the map back and forth (as in brainstorm) so only small chunks of the map are visible at any given time.  To better see how the compiler breaks the map up and what is and isn't visible, type "gl_showtris 1".  "deathmatch" and "gl_ext_multitexture" must be set to 0 before it will work.  Hint brushes allow you to better control how the compiler breaks the map up.  You might google around for some tutorials on those.

Epoly is the entity polygon count.  Things like weapons and ammo boxes increase this.  Epolys render faster than wpolys, so that value can be higher than 1000, but if it gets too high then there are probably too many entities in view.  This can lead to both network lag and poor framerates.  To remedy this, place your items so that only a handful are visible at any given time.

Sometimes entity placement is not under your direct control.  Players and paintballs, for example, are prime sources of network lag because their positions are constantly changing and they make sounds.  The best way to reduce this lag is to design the map such that there will only be 2 or 3 people in one area of the map at any given time.  You can control this by spawning people in slightly different locations, having multiple paths, and placing items such that people will scatter in different directions after spawning.  One thing you definitely want to avoid is chokepoints where there's only one way into a base.  You can have all kinds of paths, but if there's only one door into a room to get the flag, then it's kind of pointless.  I've tried to reduce the problem by adding gun freeze so people can't just sit at the only entrance and spray nonstop, but most server admins just disable it. :(  It's really up to the mappers to prevent stale gameplay.

Eiii

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2005, 07:10:00 PM »
That last one looks good, and it's fine like it is. The good crate placement makes up for the one-route thing. It allows hiding, to ambush, instead of just spraying. If you could take out some crates in the corners in key places so people could sneak up behind/ get sprayers...

jitspoe

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2005, 11:56:07 PM »
Ok, another long post... I see why the framerate was so bad in this map.  Take a look at it with gl_showtris 1 and r_speeds 1.  The map is being drawn all the way from the base to somewhere past the middle.  You need to have a little more overlap or something to ensure that vis will work its magic and remove hidden areas.  Perhaps some hint brushes would help as well.  Also, it looks like you've scaled the texture sizes on the bridge area way down.  This will up the polygon count a lot.  qbsp breaks the maps up based on texture units.  If you scale the texture down, the brushes get broken up more.  On the flip side, if you scale the textures up, the brushes get broken up less and can be very useful for outdoor/open maps.

A few suggestions for future maps:
  • Don't copy other pball map designs/structures.  I wouldn't even use them for inspiration.  By today's standards, most paintball2 maps are just flat out bad.  We need to raise the bar and get some high quality maps out there.  Also, it's better to have a completely original map.
  • Don't use oddball textures for things -- ie, texturing the bunker and bridge with shingles.  It looks funny, and when we get high-res textures, it'll look even worse.
  • I can't emphasise this enough:  Make multiple paths to the base.  I like what you've done with the boxes -- having smaller ones so you can jump up and over certain chokepoints.  Keep doing things like that.  Still, in order to keep the gameplay from getting dull, you need some sort of alternate path(s) around the flag area.
  • Keep your theme consistent.  You have a bit of a cross between indune and arctic (pbcup) going on.  Water, forts, and bridges seem really out of place in an indoor arena.
  • Spend more time in the design stage.  Sketch out your map and take into consideration what's visible from where and what your polygon count is going to be like.  Also take into account things like, "If somebody is squatting here and spraying this entrance, how will I get around it?"  Things to jump over/behind and short, alternate paths can make a huge difference in gameplay.

I guess that's about all for now.  Hope it helped.

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2005, 12:21:30 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:19:22 AM by Dirty_Taco »

jitspoe

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2005, 12:31:34 PM »
Quote
sand assult
Now you just need to add looking up word spellings to the design stage, and you'll be set. ;)

Eiii

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2005, 06:33:58 PM »
Actually, speaking of which, i have a map concept-y thing. When will you be on irc, jits?

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2005, 11:49:31 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:19:19 AM by Dirty_Taco »

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2005, 05:48:02 AM »
thank you verry much guys for your help, i'm trying to make a better map, and there's a problem:
on one brush is a confusing brush, i hadn't make it, in the editor, it is invisible, but if i'm testing my map, there's this amusingly brush, i have no idea of where it comes... can you help me?

this brush u are seeing here, i didnt made


Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2005, 10:57:48 AM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:19:03 AM by Dirty_Taco »

jitspoe

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Re: new map - cmball
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2005, 01:26:07 PM »
Yeah, sometimes those compiler glitches happen every once in a while.  Easiest way to fix it is delete the brush and build a new one from scratch.