Author Topic: WHAT MAKES A CLAN  (Read 5175 times)

loial21

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WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« on: October 27, 2007, 04:51:44 AM »
1. How can you have a stable clan community with out its membership being set to a certain standard.

What are these standards.....?

That is the question.

1. Honesty.

2. Loyalty.

3. Sportsmanship.

4. Communication.

5. Friendliness (The last does not matter as long as the first four are met.)

Don't ask if you cant tell and notice not one of those asks it members to be active.
 

Clan hopping is still prevalent..sad. :o

lekky

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Re: GT CLAN QUESTIONS.
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 05:10:08 AM »
Not really sure what this thread is for, or why you created it in Paintball II Discussion ???

loial21

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 05:11:52 AM »
I modified it.   to change the topic

Good catch BTW..leksta   god blesss your work.

I feel that the ability to change clans, is un fettered and of need of modification, in the sense of rules.

( Since clanning is the main stay of all that is relevent.....according to some.....As is such, i feel compelled to inject typical logic and unidimensional rules in to the main stream topic, thus not down sizing my complaint to some simple off-topic discussion. )

Not really sure what this thread is for, or why you created it in Paintball II Discussion ???


(a)That is why you should ask. Which you did.

+

(b)...about relevent points = which you did not. ( well all tend to fall that way, at first. :) )

=
*edit. Caw. I might have been a bit cryptic. If so please inform....other wise my intention was to post CLAN LOYALTIES HERE AND MOTHER FREEAAAAAKING LOUD.

 
uber avatar! lek! and thank you for making my self more clearish...  :-\
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 05:49:45 AM by loial21 »

magalhaes

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 07:38:24 AM »
hm that i-can't-type-a-name-right is getting old loial :(((((

JpKool

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 11:28:22 AM »
hes pissed cause i left GT thats why this post is here.lol

m7feettall

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2007, 01:16:09 PM »
1. How can you have a stable clan community with out its membership being set to a certain standard.

What are these standards.....?

That is the question.

1. Honesty.

2. Loyalty.

3. Sportsmanship.

4. Communication.

5. Friendliness (The last does not matter as long as the first four are met.)

Don't ask if you cant tell and notice not one of those asks it members to be active.
 

Clan hopping is still prevalent..sad. :o

I have a different take.

The onus is on the clan to provide the following in a competitive environment:

a. fun - if it isn't fun, why stay? This is a game.

b. activity - if my clan does not have something going on I can't expect people to want to be a part of it.

c. standards of behavior - in order to have fun members need to not infringe on other member's rights or the rights of those out of the clan.

d. communication - clan members should have at least one solid way to get in touch and talk. Multiple ones are preferred. Forums, irc, vent, all give different levels of interaction.


That doesn't mean that members should be hopping all the time. Friendship and loyalty should matter.

But we have to realize that for some competition is what they are looking for. They may want a clan that not only is good but that is frequently active to show how good they are. Those who want this competition are going to go where they think they will be valued most. In many respects the free agency model and glorification model for sports figures has played into this. Some consider themselves a big talent, and want to be in whatever clan will showcase that. For those who take this view they will look for clans with the same mentality.

Clans without this mentality need to identify these folks and steer clear of them. Or if they are already members encourage them to move on.  Dissatisfaction with the climate of a clan will just fester and may bother others unnecessarily. It is better to encourage the person to move on and pursue their true goal.

Some may also take time to find where they fit. For these clan hopping is just trying out options.

There should be loyalty. But this is still a game, not a marriage. And if the clan does not provide what the members are looking for they will move on.

Rather than lament the disloyalty of members we need to focus on the responsibility of clan leaders. Good organizations and good leaders inspire loyalty--not demand it.

At this point our clan has built-in disloyalty. We are a training clan. We expect people to move on. But it is still good to hear that often times they miss the clan experience or the people, or some choose to stay regardless of an offer.

And I am sure GT has had similar experiences in its long history. But you, and I, and all clan leaders,  need to ask as a leader what are we  doing to serve our members? And if they are leaving, why are they leaving?

Any organization and any leader must insist on such self-evaluation.


I don't pretend to know the facts in JpKool leaving, and I think your topic goes beyond his case anyway. 

Loyalty is a fading value. It is something that should be encouraged. But we can deal with reality in the current climate or we can pack it in. That is the choice of any organization.

Now having said all of that, I have seen some folks who have two lines of clans listed, some for only a day. That is  a reflection on their stability. I would not be in a hurry to take them in as a leader.





« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 01:39:51 PM by m7feettall »

loial21

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2007, 03:02:02 AM »
 fun -
Quote
if it isn't fun, why stay? This is a game.
Loyalty.

Quote
activity -
Loyalty.


Quote
1. standards of behavior - in order to have fun members need to not infringe on other member's rights or the rights of those out of the clan.
Agreed. Please see honesty and respect (something we take for granted.)

Quote
d. communication - clan members should have at least one solid way to get in touch and talk. Multiple ones are preferred. Forums, irc, vent, all give different levels of interaction.
Agreed.

Quote
That doesn't mean that members should be hopping all the time. Friendship and loyalty should matter.
  No this is paramount to a stable, respectful communiuty.

Quote
But we have to realize that for some competition is what they are looking for. They may want a clan that not only is good but that is frequently active to show how good they are
. That is a careful choice to make.......that really should ony be made once if the above criteria is met. Clan hopping is sign of a weak matching community.


Quote
Those who want this competition are going to go where they think they will be valued most. In many respects the free agency model and glorification model for sports figures has played into this. Some consider themselves a big talent, and want to be in whatever clan will showcase that. For those who take this view they will look for clans with the same mentality.
Those that feel free to move where they are most vauled give up the ethical purpose of clanmanship, period.

Quote
Clans without this mentality need to identify these folks and steer clear of them. Or if they are already members encourage them to move on.  Dissatisfaction with the climate of a clan will just fester and may bother others unnecessarily. It is better to encourage the person to move on and pursue their true goal.
Yes. True.

Quote
Some may also take time to find where they fit. For these clan hopping is just trying out options.
No its more than this......its fitting it with friends and a comfort zone.  A common morality, ethical standard that makes being a clan  vs  the same clan that holds the same standards.......its about making a choice and sticking with it.....

Quote
There should be loyalty. But this is still a game, not a marriage. And if the clan does not provide what the members are looking for they will move on.
Aye so is life. Then why join in the first place.

If a clan presesnt its self as it should.....:
loyal  +  honest

What more can you ask for?

BUt loial clan members.

Quote
Rather than lament the disloyalty of members we need to focus on the responsibility of clan leaders. Good organizations and good leaders inspire loyalty--not demand it.
Lamet of the cheater or disloyal is paramount to gaming.


Quote
At this point our clan has built-in disloyalty. We are a training clan. We expect people to move on. But it is still good to hear that often times they miss the clan experience or the people, or some choose to stay regardless of an offer.
Merx. not Loyal.


Quote
And I am sure GT has had similar experiences in its long history. But you, and I, and all clan leaders,  need to ask as a leader what are we  doing to serve our members? And if they are leaving, why are they leaving?
He left because Snipen would not give him ops.


Quote
Any organization and any leader must insist on such self-evaluation.
This has and always will be done.
Quote
I don't pretend to know the facts in JpKool leaving, and I think your topic goes beyond his case anyway.
  Way beyond. Its a matter of principal  and where the DP clan membership needs to be directed.

We need standards for Clans and Clanmanship. Period.

Quote
Loyalty is a fading value. It is something that should be encouraged. But we can deal with reality in the current climate or we can pack it in. That is the choice of any organization.
Um that is relevent and why I POSTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, i dont like wasting me time . ......    please reply .....

loial21

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2007, 03:03:16 AM »
hes pissed cause i left GT thats why this post is here.lol
Feel better? Wow its funny.


Eiii

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2007, 03:14:24 AM »
1. How can you have a stable clan community with out its membership being set to a certain standard.
*blink*









*blink*



Do I really have to point out the irony in this?

m7feettall

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2007, 12:17:10 PM »
fun - Loyalty.
 Loyalty.

Agreed. Please see honesty and respect (something we take for granted.)
 Agreed.
  No this is paramount to a stable, respectful communiuty.
. That is a careful choice to make.......that really should ony be made once if the above criteria is met. Clan hopping is sign of a weak matching community.

Those that feel free to move where they are most vauled give up the ethical purpose of clanmanship, period.
 Yes. True.
 No its more than this......its fitting it with friends and a comfort zone.  A common morality, ethical standard that makes being a clan  vs  the same clan that holds the same standards.......its about making a choice and sticking with it.....
Aye so is life. Then why join in the first place.

If a clan presesnt its self as it should.....:
loyal  +  honest

What more can you ask for?

BUt loial clan members.
 Lamet of the cheater or disloyal is paramount to gaming.

Merx. not Loyal.

 He left because Snipen would not give him ops.

 This has and always will be done.   Way beyond. Its a matter of principal  and where the DP clan membership needs to be directed.

We need standards for Clans and Clanmanship. Period.
Um that is relevent and why I POSTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, i dont like wasting me time . ......    please reply .....


Perhaps what we need is a discussion of what inspires loyalty, which seems to be what you are driving at.

But first we have to recognize that not all spheres are the same.

Loyalty in a family, loyalty to ones' faith, loyalty to country, etc. are inspired by common ideas and principles, and love for one another.  These things transcend the individual and are worth the individual giving of themselves despite the lack of any return at times.  And even here there is a hierarchy for most. I would put faith above everything, family next and country after that.  A video game clan is way down the list.

A clan has SOME of those things. But a clan for a video game is not the same kind of institution that shapes a great part of your life, at least not in most cases, for most people.

For most here it is a way to get a bit more fun out of DP through organized competition.

Now it can be more than that. But it would never be in my list of top commitments in the same way as faith, family, etc.



« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 11:40:34 PM by m7feettall »

m7feettall

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2007, 12:37:54 PM »

 He left because Snipen would not give him ops.

That may well be, but the public reason he was giving before the decision in pubs was lack of activity and never playing matches.

JpKool

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2007, 04:49:48 PM »
Amazing how the only reason u try to give is ops. and it was known to u loial and sharon. I asked for leader rights so i could recruit, Snipen took off for last 2 months. How does that help? it doesnt. Noone is around right now but me and u on a regular basis. noone tells me anything. You yelled at me for almost and hour cryin and loging in and out. couldnt even be a real man and talk about it. why? i dono maby ur an emotional person. ops does have a bit to do with it why sohuld i be asked on a regular basis by 100 ppl can i put a certain map on. i dont need full admin right i want op to change the map. too much bs thats alll it comes down to. point. blank. period. Activity, if i had leader i could recruit and let ppl join, i wasnt even aloud to try ppl out. so when u stop trying to pull bs excusses outta ur @$$ come back to me and talk like a man. dont start ur bs infront of everyone on the server like last night.

ch40s

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2007, 08:40:14 PM »
When I was younger, my parents told me a clan was made when a guy, and another guy, and another guy, and another guy...

flip

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2007, 11:09:58 AM »
i heard of A clan....
"i'm not in a clan, i just play with a lot of friends"

XtremeBain

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2007, 07:04:01 AM »
I don't agree on the whole "loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty and loyalty" thing that [GT]Loial21 is going on about.  But I must say that due to the nature of eR33t, I will not expect anything less from any player that eR33t potentially recruits.  The number of players that have left eR33t to go on to play for other teams is incredibly low.  I'd estimate that number to be at less than five players total over the past 6 years.  Even I have taken time off from eR33t to play with different teams ([sP] and -ch1ll- for a few months each) seeking a different atmosphere.

It really comes down to the accountability of the leadership and what you're doing to retain members.  I said a few sentances up that I will not expect anything less from any eR33t members, but realistically I am looking at myself as a leader and my clan as a whole.  As a leader and a member you have to ask yourself: "What makes my clan so attractive so that none my members/teammates would ever want to leave?".  Recruiting members based on their loyalty is a terrible way to look at things.  Unless you're recruiting a pub newbie (BoB), then you're essentially stealing a player from another clan and that motion right there shows that someone is willing to be "unloyal" just to be a member of your clan.

Every time someone quits your clan, as a leader or senior member you have to take a step back and try to evaluate what just happenned and why.  If players are quitting because your team keeps losing, then maybe you should focus on recruiting players who can accept losses.  Or perhaps you should start demonstrating to your members that you're actively working on improving the team's performance to get some wins.  If players are quitting because you're not active enough, then don't recruit players who want to match at least twice a day unless you're willing to make adjustments to your clan and the way you lead it so that you're able to match twice a day.

For example, eR33t has a few things that keep our members from leaving and people always wanting to join.  We have members who are very performance driven and that foster the improvement of our clan as a PB2 team.  We have members who have a unique sense of humour which makes chatting with them on IRC or talking on Vent with them enjoyable.  Our membership contains a wealth of different skillsets be it programming, mapping, modelling, graphics and general knowledge that makes it easy to bounce ideas off each other.  Finally some people just like being in the company of others who have been playing this game for over 5 years, since there's not many of us still around.

Once a clan has discovered what makes itself attracting and what its purpose is, then you can start tailoring your recruitment process so that you're selecting people who will fit in to the clan well.  Finally, as a by-product, you'll begin to see loyalty.

JpKool

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2007, 06:22:13 PM »
darn Well Put xBain

HadeZ

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2007, 03:06:33 PM »
I would think becoming friends of your associated clan mates would bring loyalty?

In 10 years of gaming I have joined a total of 12 clans but I fear change and am obsessive compulsive person by nature so routine is my life.  How ever what makes a clan is not just attitude but a congregation of players that assist your play style that completes a unified team.  If you have a strong relationship and thus become friends loyalty is sufficed with friendship.  But that doesn't mean you can get upset if they leave if you are inactive.  So although it hurts when a friend goes on his way if you aren't active then that is just how it goes this is a game and matching is a great element take that away then a person gets bored and the attitude changes.  With that being said.................Dabo 4 lyfe. 

XtremeBain

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2007, 04:32:17 PM »
DABO cost me my reputation on ETG.  To this day they still will not register any channels for me.  Thanks, Hades.

Apocalypse

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2007, 04:43:24 PM »
DABO cost me my reputation on ETG.  To this day they still will not register any channels for me.  Thanks, Hades.
Lol Xbain.
I think Xbain pretty much said up 3 posts.
And as JP said
darn Well Put xBain
Edit: XBain check PMs and respond to mine.

HadeZ

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Re: WHAT MAKES A CLAN
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2007, 05:03:04 PM »
DABO cost me my reputation on ETG.  To this day they still will not register any channels for me.  Thanks, Hades.
At least you don't get messages from Whiz saying naughty things....It isn't healthy to hold a grudge.