Beach map

[sk89q]

I just started this today; however, it's far from finished. I'm just posting to see whether the gameplay is feasible at the moment and whether I should continue or drop the project. It's siege.

A few notes:
* The map is currently very ugly
* I haven't put in ladders where I plan to yet so some paths will not let you climb up
* There will be a flag in the courtyard and a flag in the cannon room
* There will be glass windows to prevent traveling across offensive and defensive areas

http://digitalpaint.therisenrealm.com/downloads/maps/beach_unf/beach.bsp

[Eiii]

Wow, I haven't taken a close look at the CTP sound texture. I do believe that should be near the top of the To-Do list.

[y00tz]

Wow, I haven't taken a close look at the CTP sound texture. I do believe that should be near the top of the To-Do list.

Needs a new sand textures entirely and I'll just re-source it.  I forget who, but one of the guys who contributed submitted that from one of his vacations.
 
Map looks cool,  I wish I was better with making textures, the drab feel of the CTP never seems to do justice to these maps.

Updated. I was editing the post. (I do the edits *after* I post usually.)

Yeah, I do too , no worries, I'll delete my previous post.

[sk89q]

Now can you delete mine so I don't look like a weirdo talking to himself =(

[oli887]

Wow. Nice map. But personnaly i think the sand part is not long enough. But this map will be lot of fun when it will be funny

[DrRickDaglessMD]

Ok, few thoughts:

- There are a lot of misaligned brushes, walls which don't line up, etc... which need fixing.
- The scale of a lot of the brushes is off quite considerably - for example the planks covering the hole are way thicker than they need be, so they look a little clumsy.
- The aforementioned hole is cool.
- The r_speeds are about 1100 without reflective water, which means you're more than likely going to have big problems with that later. This is an example of the inherent problems with these maps which have been discussed before. Sad but true.
- The map is let down heavily by texturing, I don't think there are too many suitable textures available for this sort of map yet. The concrete is great for WW2 type concrete bunkers, but don't use red brick for internal buildings - it clashes too much. Plus, its unlikely the floor would be tiled with terracotta in a wartime beach head bunker. Have a look at some photo's of WW2 bunkers, they have a great utlitarian feel and exude the feeling of security and strength - try and capture that in your building design.
- The problem of the water just cutting off is one that I've wondered about for ages, I can't really think how to solve it. you could always clip it when it gets so deep and have it extend out into the distance, obscured by fog, but be aware of r_speeds.
- Bunkers probably wouldn't have open roofs as they'd be a destroyers artillerymans dream.

On the whole this looks like it has more promise than similar maps, so I hope you stick with it. I'm a big fan of the idea ever since I played a similar map on RTCW, but I've always written it off in DP due to engine limitations. I really hope you can make a good go of it!

good luck,

Dag

[sk89q]

You're not supposed to comment on the aesthetics :< Regardless, though, I did try to find textures last night after I posted the map... but unless I source/find my own textures, I'm not going to have the right textuers.

For r_speeds, the only way I can "solve" it is turn off the warp flag so that it doesn't render with reflection. Cheap, but it halves the r_speeds.

For the water, I was thinking about clipping it too, but I didn't want to extend it for... r_speed reasons =( But given that I have just faked the water, I suppose this becomes mostly a non-issue.

The open roof is not supposed to be open. I am probably going to change it into a hole.

Thanks for the feedback!

P.S. SHOULD I extend the beach? I do find that it is a bit short.

[y00tz]

but unless I source/find my own textures, I'm not going to have the right textuers.

What textures are you in need of?

[sk89q]

I don't it's so much that the textures aren't there -- it's that the textures don't work together, as you can see in the screenshot.

[DrRickDaglessMD]

Actually in terms of r_speeds I meant better Vis'ing. One great example of something that could be sorted is the fact that you can see from the back of the base out through the pill box window onto the beach, meaning the engine will draw it all. If you close the roof off and try and be aware of how the 2 areas should be designed without actually joining ip you might be able to do it.

eg,

 w  }   b    ||   |
 a  {    e    W  |  |
 t   }   a    ||      |
 e  {   c     W  |  |
 r   }   h     ||  |

W = Windows, || = outer walls, | = inner Vis-blocking walls.

This becomes more tricky as you have that large open ramp on the left of the bunker and numerous other 'leaks' into the beach area. on my rubbish diagram try and picture 2 boxes side by side, meeting flush where the outer wall is. Those are your 'area's. If you try and keep them seperate apart from carefully designed and measured gaps, like the pillbox windows i described above, it might be possible to keep them seperate in terms of VIS - which would do wonders for your r_speeds (and you might not have to disable reflective water).

- Dagless

[sk89q]

Oh, I know what you mean. I tried to prevent that by placing that wall in the pillbox, but I didn't check after how effective it was. I'll see what I can do.

[MrLuke]

Looking good. cant wait to shred up on this map

[Rick]

I really like the look of the first screenie. I believe i read in this topic that its 2flags. I really hate 2 flag seige, just my opinion. I like SeigeCastle's 1 flag seige and Graves :]. O well i still will play it cause it looks nice.

[sk89q]

I plan to add the second flag because I think that getting out would be far too easy at the moment, especially since there are many entrance points to overwhelm the defending team. But, who knows, the defending team can still camp safely from within the confines of the inner building.

On the progress of the map, there is little progress. The whole "ugly" thing (mainly with the bunkers) is bothering me, and I am not sure what textures to use. If anyone wants the .map file, I will freely distribute it under GPL. In the mean time, I might go back to it within the next two weeks.

[y00tz]

For the water, I was thinking about clipping it too, but I didn't want to extend it for... r_speed reasons =( But given that I have just faked the water, I suppose this becomes mostly a non-issue.

While I'm thinking of it,  I played Age of Chivalry, and they just released the next version of their Source-based mod (link), they did something interesting with their water, they added a small extension of the same water texture, perhaps even sourced from a screenshot, into the sky box, then blurred/faded it, eluding to a foggy water effect. 

It was a certainly an interesting idea I'm planning on experimenting with for those interested in making island/ship maps.

[sk89q]

I was thinking about that myself (especially since riverscape/pbsky# totally does not work with a beach map), but wouldn't the water really look detached? Isn't the quality of the skyboxes pretty bad? And you'll have to extend out the ocean quite a bit and add clip brushes? :|

[y00tz]

but wouldn't the water really look detached?

It does, especially since the water in this game as well as HL2 moves and reflects. To look good it would extend a fair amount and require a clip brush, but it certainly doesn't look bad, definitely better than the water that just stops at the moment.

Skyboxes support HR4, yes?

I'll have to check with Zorchenhimer, but if I can find the point at where fresnel kicks in, and merely light is reflected, I could screencap that and possibly use it in Blender to make a rather good looking skybox.

[sk89q]

Sounds good. However, I don't think it would profoundly work for my map too well, unless I add clip brushes and lots of distance, as there's a point where land meets water.