Author Topic: Matter of Opinion (Read 14253 times)

FlaMe · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:12:26 PM »

Hi BoB =]

And Seriously, Sonny has run two successful tournaments in the past like 2 months and is working on another one. He is one of the few actually acting on the "Lets Improve the Community" bs I keep hearing about...

-Maybe if we idle #definedp we will help the community
-WHAT FEATURES DO YOU WANT IN THE NEXT BUILD?! VOTE NOW!!!

...No? Sonny has stayed up til 5 AM running the DaRkNeSS cup for to win... also he just paid for 5 servers as well as is currently hosting a tournament two weeks from now on New Years Eve.

You guys act like you would ban Loial or someone from GT if they had done the same thing... lmfao no.

Give him a warning and fix the script, simple

Edgecrusher · « **Reply #21 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:21:20 PM »

To be honest here sk89 is here more than me as I can see from his profile. He registered in August last year, and I did in April this year, started playing about a year ago.

But the point is regardless on how long you are here, everyone should state his opinion. And not to get post deletions because of that. The thing is, in that locked topic, only Y2J, Cola at some point and myself tried to voice in second opinion and yes, we tried to defend Sonny in the meaning either all get banned or none. And we are still in no mans land where we have only 1 player banned from the game and forums whilst the others who did THE SAME THING roam arround free, expressing their point of view and defending their testing actions while the only one who did get banned can't speak his mind.

No logic, no sence, rash decisions, autocracy, which hunt. Welcome to the 12th century.

Edit: to all of those who suspect his motives Flame stated about bringing clan scene, matching and cups: I talked to Sonny an hour and a half ago, he said to me that no matter what happens, Leezeerz cup will go on. Here is a part of that convo from the IRC. The other part is private and Sonny asked me not disclose some of the things he said.

<X^MA|Sonny`out> iam fine with a 32day or a 64day global ban... but i want to be unbanned from the forum
<X^MA|Sonny`out> because i have to organize a cup
<X^MA|Sonny`out> leezerz is more important than me

cusoman · « **Reply #22 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:25:50 PM »

Well, I have thoroughly read both this and the Sonny forum page, and believe a ban is in order to all participants. Now before any of you jump on me, here is why: Testing on your own server is great for helping discover what causes the issue, but as soon as you do it to another server, you now have affected many peoples playing ability and took down some of the few servers that really helped this community. IE: the GT servers, the Q servers, the Leezers Servers, the EV1 servers and some of the individual clan servers. I believe sonny, as he clearly discovered the glitch and did not report it, should remained banned until the committee has a decisions. I believe the decision should be based on number of servers crashed, like a point system. I also dislike the sudden outrage toward prominent members of the Community like Sk89q. He crashed servers, but was not the only one and if you are to make the point that sonny should not alone be banned you must refer all participants in this unfortunate act. I believe both Sk89q and Queenie, those are the only 2 off the top of my head, did test and take down I believe 1 server a piece. Although both are very helpful to the community I believe they also should be temp-banned based on a point system. Obviously they did not do nearly the damage that sonny called, and thus a point system across the board should be issued. A list of all server crashers and number a crashes should be compiled, so that not one or 2 people may be hit with the anger and rage of the friends and biased opinions of the accused. All opinions are valid, but one must see past all relationships to a fair judgment. I have recently become on fairly good terms with Sk89q, meeting him on servers, and talking to him on IRC. I highly doubt he meant any harm by his one (to my knowledge) crashing session, but i believe he should still be banned, just not as severely as other crashers doing more damage. Really a point system would be useful here, and I hope those reading this post read the whole thing and did not skip to the bottom.

A Concerned member of the community,
-Cusoman

Edgecrusher · « **Reply #23 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:37:25 PM »

Let me ask you then one thing:

Hypotheticly: we have 2 speed hacker. One has been using his cheats for 1 second, other has been using em for 5 minutes. Do they deserve the same ban? Or let's make a point system.

Does it matter that sk89g is as you said a prominent member of the communitiy? I see your point but it's false. Easy as that. Rules are to be obeyed no matter who broke them.

But hey, this rule has not been written yet! So let's go, ban one for example, leave the so called testers alone, they were just testing, no matter that they crashed GTs and other prominent servers. Yes, let's do it! And justice for none.

Edited: not so prominent community member,

EC

KnacK · « **Reply #24 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:55:08 PM »

Please take in to consideration that currently only one person is banned and there will be possibly more. This is not over.

cusoman · « **Reply #25 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:01:42 PM »

I do see your point Edgecrusher, but this isn't speedhacking, and although that was an excellent analogy, it cannot be used because this is an incredibly different story. I do feel bad the sonny has to be banned while others walk free, but because of his blatant lack of reporting, i believe he should be. The other confessed to there meddling and caused much less damage. And even using your speedhacking example, because the one used it for only 1 second, i would definitely give 8 day ban max, because they did not harm anyone else's play, and obviously, for whatever reason, stopped, and there fore should not be punished as bad as the one who plays for 5 mins owning due to speed and ruining a great siege or ctf game, normally one of strategy. I can tell you are livid because one of your good friends has been banned in an unfortunate circumstance, and I think you agree with his being banned, its just you believe others should be banned with him. If that is your thinking, i completely agree, but most of the others did not do as sever damage and thus should be banned for less time. Also I cannot believe you are still on Sk89q's case. I already said that what he did was wrong and should be banned for a certain amount of time, but when arguing that others should be banned, you should argue the entire list of others because the way you are currently saying things makes you sound biased, true or not, and that makes your points much less valid.
-Cusoman

Edgecrusher · « **Reply #26 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:22:23 PM »

Well you see cusoman the problem is not that I'm biased. Yes, he was my team member, but you don't know much about me. I cherish thruth, honesty, ethics, moral above all. So the fact if Sonny is my friend or not, I would do the same thing for anybody.

You haven't read posts that were deleted so I'm sorry but you don't know the back story. Do you know who started crashing servers? Sonny was pointed out because of Vicioz post (wow, look at this, another my ex team mate), the fact is, he is still only one banned, alot of others will walk free, I just hope Sonny will let me to disclose list of persons involved in this.

So what if it's a diferent story? Does it matters if it's speedhack, ZGH, aimbot or anything else? NO, bans are clear and same for any of these actions. The only thing is that you sound biased, you don't want same ban time for sk89g and others.

@Knack - hopefully, we will see as time passes by.

FlaMe · « **Reply #27 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:26:57 PM »

Cusoman, put some spaces in between points, nobody has the time to try and read your blobbish paragraphs... tbh its annoying idc not a personal attack just dont make it so annoying to read, its a rant.

And I think the members of the community have the Committee pinned right now, based off how I see this being handled. If the "committee" is truly concerned they should be helping us out, you know the people who kinda voted for them?

Banning Sonny ingame is one thing, to take away his forum privileges is just an outrage... There are 2 more tournaments he has planned regardless of whether or not he can still play in them.

Also he crashed his own servers, ok no problem theyre his... Lekky's I doubt he didnt confess to considering Lekky is the leader of his clan... unless I'm wrong. And I know half of the people who play this game would LOVE to crash a GT server while Loial was in it... just my observations...

Anything longer than a 32-day ban is unjustified... Give him his forum privileges back and stop hiding behind this so called committee of 10 members, 5 of which play dp more than 10 minutes a month. The only people I currently respect in there are Olbaid, Lekky, and Zorch... the only 3 you can find if you need something... everyone else is just using the title for unknown purposes

ViciouZ · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:29:56 PM »

As I see it, this is why the decision was made:

There was proof sonny was using the exploit, so he was banned.

Now we need to find out who else has been using it, with proof, so they can also be held responsible.

On another note, Sonny is requesting access to the forums so he can manage his New Year's Eve tournament.

KnacK · « **Reply #29 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:34:25 PM »

Quote

On another note, Sonny is requesting access to the forums so he can manage his New Year's Eve tournament.

done

FlaMe · « **Reply #30 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:35:38 PM »

...someone said sonnys ban will be longer than 32 days

cusoman · « **Reply #31 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:37:45 PM »

Well, until i know who has started all of this, according to you, I believe sonny should remained banned. I also think that what you are saying about ban times is incorrect. I believe this was Sk89q's/Queenie's/Others who admitted first act of evil, and as such I believe they should have a mush lesser ban time then one who did not admit what he was doing, crashed multiple servers (which in my head would be multiple offenses). If sonny did not start this, but instead it was others, then they too should be banned at the current moment as sonny is, but that does not change the fact that Sonny has committed more acts (server crashes) then any other person currently known to the public. I feel that anyone that admitted to server crashing/testing should be banned, but at a lesser degree than those who did not admit to crashing, especially when those who did not admit to crashing were caught with proof of multiple offenses. I am not sure what you are arguing for, for those who participated to share the same fate as sonny, or for those who participated to be punished except sonny. If you are thinking the first one, i would like to inform you that the world is not black and white, and there were lesser acts of evil done via server crashing than others, and I do not think that those that were able to admit what they had done and when should be punished as harshly as a multiple offense, non-admitted caught red-handed participant. These are my clear, and to my knowledge, un-biased opinions. I have also come to the conclusion that neither of us are biased, but most likely just see different ways of approaching this troubling situation.
-Cusoman

Edit: For flame: I shall use bullet points next time, though paragraphs are much more professional.

Edit2: I hope no one thinks I dislike sonny, as i believe he is also a prominent community member and agree that forum privileges should be allowed. When in the above post i say he should be banned, that is pertaining to in-game ban and i am sorry for anyone who misinterpreted my misleading writing.

FlaMe · « **Reply #32 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:39:20 PM »

not bullets just

type

your sentences with diff points

like this so its easier to read

XtremeBain · « **Reply #33 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:40:02 PM »

When we say 'test' we really mean 'going into every populated public server outside of those that belong to the motherland saying OWNED OWNED OWNED and crashing the server', then bragging about it on IRC?

Sonny hadn't crashed my servers (as I thought when I made one of my initial posts), but I've got two others who crashed them with intent and a third who looked like they *may* have been legitimately "testing" it. Sonny had all the chances in the world to test the exploit on his own servers, and accordingly report the problem to jitspoe. He used this exploit as an opportunity to act like a typical script kiddie, going around crashing servers and having a laugh. I'm also willing to bet that he had some hand in distributing the exploit which is probably why this is more of a problem then it should be. The `funname 255` bug wasn't fixed for how long, over a year? It doesn't mean that people had posted it all over IRC and were crashing servers endlessly.

Sonny started leezerz and has populated it with a few things trying to generate traffic for what looks like a server rental business. He's provided servers for, and helped run (but doesn't look like organize) one tournament, and has organized a second with a 10min modification of the rules it took me a couple hours to write. In my opinion, he hasn't exactly been one that's gone above and beyond to help this community.

Now that he's a server admin, you think it would be a common courtesy to notify jitspoe and in this case other server admins of the problem, rather than set off with his german buddies to go and crash every server other than his.

cusoman · « **Reply #34 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:42:55 PM »

Xbain, the only problem I have with your above post is your personal attacking of sonny. In this case, i believe we should attack what sonny has done, and not who he is.

For future/past reference, whenever I talk about sonny, it will most likely be his actions and not his personal self to which i am in disagreement with.
-Cusoman

Edgecrusher · « **Reply #35 on:** December 19, 2007, 04:16:02 PM »

Well, I think I wrote all I can on subject for today. Now that Sonny can post on forums again, let's hope he'll give us his insight on the matter. This is more deeper as I understood from my convo with him than you can imagine. We shall see.

Y2J · « **Reply #36 on:** December 19, 2007, 04:45:08 PM »

So Knack, how come SK89Q did not receive a forum ban for his comments?

FlaMe · « **Reply #37 on:** December 19, 2007, 04:48:30 PM »

lmfao i think shanes been banned from the forums longer than ive been on them.

Y2J · « **Reply #38 on:** December 19, 2007, 04:55:35 PM »

Not Shane, this kid SK89Q was personally insulting and attacking me last night, just like something Shane would do, but was not banned for it, like Shane would have been. Which leads me to question why.

lekky · « **Reply #39 on:** December 19, 2007, 05:02:27 PM »

lol Y2J, from what I remember it wasn't as bad as you are making out, you make it sound like a total onslaught.