Author Topic: Matter of Opinion (Read 14236 times)

Y2J · « **on:** December 19, 2007, 12:50:46 PM »

Yootz just locked the Sonny topic because it was "a matter of opinion."

Every topic that the Committee faces will be a matter of opinion. How come they are locking out other members of the community from voicing their opinion on a given matter?

I, along with others, feel that banning Sonny (who didn't even find the bug), and not anyone else for taking advantage of that bug is bogus. But the committee deleted all the post Edgecrusher and I made last night defending Sonny, and proving sk89q was also culpable for this action. But, in the committee's efffort, to save someone they like, they deleted all the post, post that included sk89q personally attacking me. ( which I'm wondering if he currently has a forum ban for?)

Now, I've disagreed with the committee all along, and this is specifically why. They are looking on individual basis, and letting their own loyalties to people get in the way of serving justice to all.

Sk89q made some ridiculous posts last night, he attacked me, and he also took advantage of this bug. So why is he not currently banned like Sonny, until an appropriate sanction for all is concluded, not just for one.

lekky · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2007, 12:54:48 PM »

Quote from: Y2J on December 19, 2007, 12:50:46 PM

Yootz just locked the Sonny topic because it was "a matter of opinion."

Every topic that the Committee faces will be a matter of opinion. How come they are locking out other members of the community from voicing their opinion on a given matter?

I, along with others, feel that banning Sonny (who didn't even find the bug), and not anyone else for taking advantage of that bug is bogus. But the committee deleted all the post Edgecrusher and I made last night defending Sonny, and proving sk89q was also culpable for this action. But, in the committee's effort, to save someone they like, they deleted all the post, post that included sk89q personally attacking me. ( which I'm wondering if he currently has a forum ban for?)

I agree Y2J, I think that closing the thread was wrong, and it should be reopened. To make decisions, we need opinions, this game is based on its Community, thus we need the Communities opinions, especially on something like this.

The Commitee didn't do any of the above Y2J, individuals did it. I'm part of the Comittee and i agree with you so try to remember that.

I think the reason Sonny is the only one banned now is to stop him doing it again. Making Sonny the only scapegoat for it all won't happen, and if it does then the Committee is dead for all I care, thats not the reason it was created for. (On a side note, from what i've seen from the Committee in general, people don't let their feelings get in the way, and if they do, there is enough of us to kick some sense into them).

KnacK · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2007, 12:58:38 PM »

Quote

To make decisions, we need opinions, this game is based on its Community, thus we need the Communitys decisions.

You are absolutely correct Lekky.

For the record, the posts wer enot deleted, they were moved.
secondly, the posts were moved as it was becoming a flame fest/battle of opinions.

If you want to keep the posts, keep it civil.

y00tz · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2007, 12:59:32 PM »

I didn't lock any thread.

Y2J · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:00:45 PM »

Alright I'm sorry for grouping the Committee as a whole, as I don't even know if they have the power to moderate the forums. But other forum moderators were present in the discussion, who are also committee members, witnessed this happen, then once other people came and backed me up, decided that the post were somehow flaming? NONE of Edgecrusher's post were flaming, and should have all stayed in the discussion. We had many valid points for why Sonny should not be banned, if you're not banning others, but when I woke up they were magically gone. It's kind of disheartening that we take the time to stand up for something we believe, only have it deleted by a forum moderator also on the committee, because they don't want anything shining in bad light to them.

Maybe there is a conflict of interest here. No one can question the committee, because some of the committee moderates these forums. We should be able to voice any concerns about the way things are being handled, with out the threat of people deleting it before the public gets to see an argument.

Y2J · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:02:18 PM »

Yootz, this is the last sentence of the last post on the Sonny thread, made by you:

"Thead locked, all discussion is a matter of opinion in this case."

Someone locked that thread, and it seems likely it was you based by that.

y00tz · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:03:23 PM »

There is ONE moderator who is also on the committee, upon seeing his name up for nomination, I declined my nomination for the committee, so that when you tried to say there is a conflict of interest, you would be wrong. I knew this would happen if KnacK and I were both committee members, so I have distanced myself from the committee. I can assure you if KnacK does any wrong doing, there is a non-committee member to keep him in check.

What are you trying to prove here? Nobody has been banned, this is all speculation.

Edit: correction, I see that Sonny has been banned for the time being.

Edgecrusher · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:03:40 PM »

At this point I just wanna to point out ONE thing.

Sonny didn't found the bug, didn't crashed the server over and over again, he is the only one to get banned, and so called testers got a walk from jail free card. Honest? No.

Maybe there was more things to point out.

lekky · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:07:14 PM »

Quote from: lekky on December 19, 2007, 12:54:48 PM

II think the reason Sonny is the only one banned now is to stop him doing it again.

y00tz · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:09:17 PM »

It's the classic, ban first, ask questions later, which is what Jitspoe outlined before the committee was even created. I personally see nothing wrong with it, I mean, nothing shady is going down here.

Forgot to cite source:

Quote from: jitspoe on August 03, 2007, 12:32:59 PM

As for snap decisions, those might have to be handled in a "ban first, ask questions later" fashion.

Y2J · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:11:52 PM »

Sonny has been banned, and it's crap. He has to wait for the committee's vote? Why don't sk89q, and anyone else who used this bug, for whatever purpose, have bans, pursuant to their "court date"

I'm proving that in deleting all those post, you guys are saving face because more and more of the community was stepping in to back my belief, which was contrary to yours. God forbid people have different beliefs than the DP committee! I, and everyone else, should be able to voice their opinion on a matter without it being shut down, deleted, moved away from public view, and at the same time, people attack me and nothing gets done about. But lord knows if I question his intelligence, I would be banned because of who I am. It's ridiculous that loyalties lie in the way of any true standard being set in this game, thus making this a game of cliques and brown nosers.

I mean honestly, as Edgecrusher said, Sonny didn't even find this bug. Find the person who found it, punish them. Punish EVERYONE who used it, for whatever reason, on a pub server.

KnacK · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:17:09 PM »

Y2J,

The posts were REMOVED due to the intense flaming, that is all. If you feel it was based on something else you are very wrong.

And since I am a moderator AND on the committee, it must only be me that you have all of this anger against.

Logs are currently being gone through to collect information and once that is done, decisions will be made.

Y2J · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:18:40 PM »

There was NO flaming in Edgecrusher's posts. How are you even going to try and say there was. And there wasn't any flaming in probably 80% of my post. Most mine were right along the lines of defending Sonny, until SK89Q came in and attacked me. So seriously, how come you will not respond to why he is not currently banned from the forum?

KnacK · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:30:40 PM »

Quote from: Y2J on December 19, 2007, 01:18:40 PM

There was NO flaming in Edgecrusher's posts. How are you even going to try and say there was. And there wasn't any flaming in probably 80% of my post. Most mine were right along the lines of defending Sonny, until SK89Q came in and attacked me. So seriously, how come you will not respond to why he is not currently banned from the forum?

His 2 posts were caught up in the thread split.

Y2J · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:39:37 PM »

Again Knack, I ask, you ban me, you ban skater, you ban bob from this forum, for making comments just like SK89Q. How come SK89Q was not banned for his comments to me, which were unprovoked.

Edgecrusher · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:49:04 PM »

Caught up in the thread split...

That means, no matter that I didn't flamed anyone, that I was just stating the obviou once you look at the whole situation, my posts don't count because they were caught in the thread split. Well, there were alot of flaming on forums no matter the subject was. I don't remember the posts were deletet when the flame erupted.

And I believe my posts were valid. And that they gave another insight on the subject.

KnacK · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:57:25 PM »

All of the removed posts have been placed in a thread for the committee to review them.

Y2J · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:03:11 PM »

Again Knack, I ask, you ban me, you ban skater, you ban bob from this forum, for making comments just like SK89Q. How come SK89Q was not banned for his comments to me, which were unprovoked.

You're like Roger Clemmens over there. Except at least he denies it, you're just ignoring it hoping it blows over, which it won't.

You can't ban some, but not others, for doing the same thing.

FlaMe · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:05:55 PM »

Ok KnacK you're missing the point horridly. You act like you cant just proxy into the forums even when you are forum banned so I dont really see the point in that either...

But in seriousness, All Y2J is saying is that he feels his posts were deleted and moved from the public forums to hide his opinion which contradicted that of the committee. EC and Y2J have been around longer than any sk89q regardless of his scripting abilities... Also banning Sonny for testing out a "hack" which he didn't even come up with is stupid.. Nowhere in the rules / agreement does it say anything about exploting flaws in the scripting....

If the committee is going to be taken seriously it needs to view both sides... not to mention Sonny just added a good 4 or 5 servers to the serverbrowser... hes not some troublemaking hacker...

Give the kid a warning, this is hardly as serious as you make it out to be.

James · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:07:43 PM »

HELLO WELCOME TO THE DP FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!