Author Topic: Voice of community  (Read 18728 times)

Magical-Tree

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #80 on: December 23, 2007, 06:17:05 AM »
This subject about who should be banned or shouldn't be banned should stop now. Everything just keeps going in cirlces and is just going to result in further bans. No good cn come from this.

However, Good to see you standing up for what you belive edge. =]



~MT

lekky

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2007, 06:39:49 AM »
It's more what he have done.

He insulted Y2J, that is a fact.

He crashed the servers, that is a fact (so have many others).

I'm actually waiting for committee to resolve this, it may have been blown out of proportion as some suggested, but this will be a really good test for them. Since they represent the community as a whole, and there are two diferent opinions on the subject, I'm very interested on how will they resolve this issue.

You talk of equality with regards to bans, but yet you protest for the same punishment to be given to someone who crashes perhaps 12 servers many with players on, and someone who crashed one empty server.

I don't see how that can possibly be equal. Try to reserve your bias when you form judgement.

Edgecrusher

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #82 on: December 23, 2007, 09:05:12 AM »
Lekky, what you wrote above doesn't makes any sense.

I just wanna same ban time for all.

Besides, we talked all together over 3 hours on irc about that and there's no need to proceed with this further. I wrote what I believe in. As I said to you last night/this morning, I wont change my mind, and I know I wont change yours.

Reed

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2007, 12:36:28 PM »
Lekky, what you wrote above doesn't makes any sense.

Makes perfect sense to me, but then I can see both sides of the argument.

I tend to agree with Lekky's consequentialist view.

Cobo

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #84 on: December 23, 2007, 03:25:55 PM »
I agree with lekky, what sk89q is just not the same as what others did. Besides, he explained why he ACCIDENTALY crashed one of gt's (?) servers.

coLa

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #85 on: December 23, 2007, 06:08:06 PM »
it wasn't an accident. he went onto the GT server and typed the command. that is no accident.

Reed

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2007, 06:43:37 PM »
I agree, it was not an accident, but i don't believe it was done with malicious intent.

Additionally, sk89q apologised immediately after he crashed the server. I have not received one apology from those who attacked my server, infact all i have received is abuse and denial.

So then, is it fair to treat someone who maliciously attacked several populated servers and shows no remorse, the same as someone who 'tested' the command on an empty server and immediately apologised?

I'm not going to debate what punishment should be given, that is for the committee to decide for now, but i do believe the severity should reflect the circumstances in each case.

Hades

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2007, 07:42:52 PM »
COMMITTEE NEEDS TO GET OFF THEIR ASS.  ISSUE OUT BANS AND CALL IT A DAY.  Way to long of a delay for no outcome of this.  Swear to God this has me agitated.  So get the bans out get this behind us as of right now nothing has happened.  We look like Poland fighting Germany in WWII basically just getting walked all over.

lekky

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #88 on: December 24, 2007, 11:19:04 AM »
Its the wrong time of year for fast decisions unfortunately. Apologies for that but I hope you guys can understand.

Sonny

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #89 on: December 30, 2007, 04:07:31 AM »
Okay. Let me sum up: The committee want to ban all guy's who crashing server's. Right? Okay. Go further. The committee ban me, viper, QueeNiE and Kongo. We all know there are more guy's who crashing server's. If I am correct remember minimum 8-10 players. Will more follow? I don't think so. Maybe the committee have screwed up? I can remember that a lot of committee members tell me: "all or no one". I don't want fairness. I want a better committee. I don't have anything against the committee members. But please think about my suggestion. Fewer committee members and more power for them. I can't understand how a committee with so intelligent members making so bad decision's (I mean this business).

I think viper and kongo still waiting of their log's where you can see that he past in the console ******. All what you can see it that playersX connect to a full pub server and after 2 minutes the server go down. But where you can really see(read) that playerX crashing the server? It's a pub with a lot of players. Where is demonstration for that?

And what about sk89q? I search in this forum for a reason why he's still unbanned. All what I have found is that he "only test it on his own server". I would be really disappointed when I test a speed hack on my own server and I get a ban (I only want to know how fast it can be). Yes I know, using an exploit to crash servers isn't a hack. But, it will be equally punished. Why he don't use the "Start A New Game" button? Hacks and exploit's can be tested offline. I don't have anythink against sk89q. And I'm sure that he will be not pissed about a ban. Maybe he not give a darn about (similar to me). But, same legislation for all and same punishment for all.

-Sonny

Eiii

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #90 on: December 30, 2007, 04:47:28 AM »
Point-by-point rebuttal time, in a sarcastic manner! Because that's just about what this post warrants.
Okay. Let me sum up: The committee want to ban all guy's who crashing server's. Right? Okay. Go further. The committee ban me, viper, QueeNiE and Kongo. We all know there are more guy's who crashing server's. If I am correct remember minimum 8-10 players. Will more follow? I don't think so. Maybe the committee have screwed up?
You're putting words in the committee's mouth, then saying they're going too far? If you're complaining about you being the only one banned, then maybe you should consider that the committee might still be talking about it? Because maybe it's a time of year where people are more distracted by family matters or otherwise? I don't know, that might slow things down some. Maybe a bit. And hell, getting nine people to agree on something is hard enough in the first place. Wait for the committee to ACTUALLY MAKE A DECISION, then criticize it.

I can remember that a lot of committee members tell me: "all or no one". I don't want fairness. I want a better committee
You don't want things to be fair. That's crazy talk. Unless you just wanted to see your opinions and decisions go through, as opposed to ones that would be reasonable. Yeah, that seems like a pretty safe assumption about what's going on here.

I don't have anything against the committee members. But please think about my suggestion. Fewer committee members and more power for them. I can't understand how a committee with so intelligent members making so bad decision's (I mean this business).
Fewer members would make decisions go faster, but less points of view would potentially make the decisions more biased. Redundancy = fairness = good decisions.

I think viper and kongo still waiting of their log's where you can see that he past in the console ******. All what you can see it that playersX connect to a full pub server and after 2 minutes the server go down. But where you can really see(read) that playerX crashing the server? It's a pub with a lot of players. Where is demonstration for that?
That'd be why playerX isn't banned yet. And perhaps won't be. But who knows? The committee hasn't made a decision yet.

And what about sk89q? I search in this forum for a reason why he's still unbanned. All what I have found is that he "only test it on his own server". I would be really disappointed when I test a speed hack on my own server and I get a ban (I only want to know how fast it can be). Yes I know, using an exploit to crash servers isn't a hack. But, it will be equally punished. Why he don't use the "Start A New Game" button? Hacks and exploit's can be tested offline. I don't have anythink against sk89q. And I'm sure that he will be not pissed about a ban. Maybe he not give a darn about (similar to me). But, same legislation for all and same punishment for all.
I'm not sure why sk89q didn't use more private ways to test it either, but here's an overview of what went on (in case you missed it):
  • You, sk89q, and others found out about the exploit.
  • You crashed one or more servers with people playing on them- disconnecting them, disrupting their game, and generally abusing them.
  • Sk89q crashed an empty server, affecting no one and potentially affecting very few people.
  • Sk89q apoligized...
  • You did not.

Sk89q's offense was a small one. You may have both gone through the same motions, but what you KNOWINGLY caused was much more drastic than what sk89q did. I agree that those who commit similar crimes should get similar punishments, but you and sk89q did completely different things. Your actions were with the intent of causing harm- it certainly doesn't look like sk89q's were.

To sum it up:
I'm sorry you're upset that sk89q isn't banned. I'm sorry you're upset that the committee is slow. But if you take one thing away from this post, this should be it:
You and sk89q committed different crimes of different severity.
I do hope you can see the impact of that.

QueeNiE

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #91 on: December 30, 2007, 09:01:10 AM »
I find it strange that people say I didn't apologize for crashing servers.  Sure, I guess I had a roundabout way of saying it, but I did in a sense 'say sorry'.


Not that I want my ban time removed, but I just want you all to know.  I never denied anything.  I never continued abuse.  I hope you all can see that I'm really not all that bad.


Anyway, considering the ban time of me: Leave it.  I don't want to argue it.  I deserve it.

Considering the ban time of sk89q: Who cares.  He definitely doesn't deserve a ban.  Let's leave it at that.  I could go on and on for a long time with evidence to support myself.  But I need not.  If you want any more proof, read above.


Please, don't post on this thread again.  Unless you have a valid argument to put on the table.

coLa

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2007, 10:13:33 PM »
Please, don't post on this thread again.  Unless you have a valid argument to put on the table.

if you want valid arguments go read every thread about this. there are plenty to go around.

Quote
Considering the ban time of sk89q: Who cares.  He definitely doesn't deserve a ban.  Let's leave it at that.

he does deserve a ban, but being that the committee is totally bias, he won't be receiving one. which is pretty sad. equality is definitely non-existent here.

i honestly don't know why myself and the others who confessed to crashing servers will not be banned. what do you need logs for? do you think people are going to lie and admit to crashing a server or two, when they actually didn't?
 
i hope the banning is not over and EVERYONE involved will receive their punishment.

jitspoe

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2007, 11:10:29 PM »
if you want valid arguments go read every thread about this. there are plenty to go around.

he does deserve a ban, but being that the committee is totally bias, he won't be receiving one. which is pretty sad. equality is definitely non-existent here.

i honestly don't know why myself and the others who confessed to crashing servers will not be banned. what do you need logs for? do you think people are going to lie and admit to crashing a server or two, when they actually didn't?
 
i hope the banning is not over and EVERYONE involved will receive their punishment.
Equal bans for unequal actions?  There's a difference between crashing servers for fun and attempting to get to the bottom of a problem so a solution could be found.  Sk89q was doing the latter.  I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on getting him banned.

It's also not possible to ban everyone involved.  There are likely a number of people who went undetected, and I don't feel it would be fair to punish the people who admitted and not the ones that didn't.  Also, somebody could just say "wait, I was just kidding - I never really crashed any servers," and there would be nothing to go on but his word.  So, basically, what we're left with is the cases where the perpetrator was logged and the admin has reported it.

Eiii

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2007, 11:14:48 PM »
he does deserve a ban, but being that the committee is totally bias, he won't be receiving one.
Please do note that just because the committee's decision isn't the same as yours doesn't mean it's a biased one.

FlaMe

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2007, 11:20:48 PM »
Equal bans for unequal actions?  There's a difference between crashing servers for fun and attempting to get to the bottom of a problem so a solution could be found.

So than if i hack in 10 matches with an aimbot and a speedhack...
and someone speedhacks in only 1 server...
we'll get different ban lengths?

.no

Eiii

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2007, 11:22:20 PM »
In both cases, the offenders have the intent to do harm.

nightryder

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #97 on: December 30, 2007, 11:23:28 PM »
what if he speedhacked on one server to help solve a problem

edit: just showing the hole in flames arguement

coLa

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #98 on: December 30, 2007, 11:23:54 PM »
Please do note that just because the committee's decision isn't the same as yours doesn't mean it's a biased one.

and here comes Eiii to suckle on the power teat once again. good for you.

please do note that what i am saying is not directed towards you. you are not on the committee and you are not a mod. i don't care what you have to say to me.

i am not the only one who believes sk89q should have been banned, but obviously, i am the only one still fighting for it. you guys are protecting him however you can. THE MOMENT HE JOINED THE GT SERVER TO "TEST" THIS EXPLOIT, HE BECAME JUST LIKE THE REST. regardless if the server was occupied or not. the server was not his own. but whatever, i guess i am done. it won't change. i am clearly wasting my time and everyone elses. good day. and keep up the bad work.

also jitspoe, would you mind PMing me? i would like to discuss why i have not received a ban for using zgh. i thought it was detected. if not, i'd be happy to provide you with a link to where i found it. thanks.

FlaMe

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Re: Voice of community
« Reply #99 on: December 30, 2007, 11:27:39 PM »
I dont see where intent has ever mattered before... why should it matter now