Author Topic: two new maps im workin on...  (Read 4901 times)

KalTorak

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two new maps im workin on...
« on: September 15, 2005, 08:38:54 PM »
kalsmile





kalcrazy




the file hosting is down at the moment so if you wanna see the maps you'll have to get a hold of me via irc - kal  :P

Smokey|45

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2005, 08:44:37 PM »
both maps hosted here


http://www.h4xerz.com/downloads/kals_beta1.zip


hehe its all there maps textures have fun

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 08:45:30 PM »
there we go  ;D thanks smoke

loial21

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 09:09:24 PM »
Is it finished kal?
 
Let me know.

jitspoe

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2005, 10:18:32 PM »
kalsmile

kalsmile isn't ready for beta testing yet.  It hasn't been fully compiled.  There's no vis.  The map probably leaked.  This must be fixed before it can be played online.  Not only are the r_speeds insanely high and the framerate unplayable on lower-end systems (I get 16fps in some areas on my geforce when usually I'm getting 60-140fps), but it means that all the entity data will be sent to all clients at all times, causing lots of lag.

Aside from compilation issues, there's some other problems:

1) There's only one path.  You need to have multiple paths to keep the gameplay flowing smoothly.  Otherwise it's nearly impossible to capture the flag.  Not to mention the gameplay is dull and stale.  Add some alternate routes to make things interesting.
2) All autocockers sucks, especially in one-path maps.  People just spray and spray, and there's no way around it.  You have to run through the spray because there's no other route.  Autos should be prized and rare -- placed in locations that people have to go out of their way to get.  Weapon placement can play a big role in gameplay strategies.  I hate it when people throw all that  out the window and just spawn everybody with the best equipment.
3) There's a lot of screwy brushwork going on.  It's even visible in some of the screenshots you posted.  For example, this one: http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sshot0071vl.jpg -- the hill with the barrel in it: none of those edges line up right.  There's slivers and cracks all over the place.  How did you even end up with that?  What editor are you using?  That type of stuff looks bad, can lead to leaks, and causes annoying clipping problems.  If you're using BSP, I can give you some tips on how to re-make that stuff cleanly.
4) The lighting is really screwy.  I'm not sure how you managed this, but it seems like everything is uniformly lit with random splotches of light here and there, from no apparent light source (see screenshot).  Also, the lights themselves don't give off light.  I'd suggest using arghrad's sunlight feature in place of ambient light and... I don't know how to fix the rest of the lighting -- maybe it was just because the map wasn't properly vised?
4) Built-in "wallhacks" are bad.  If you get on the roof of the hut (see second screenshot), you can see right through the wall.  This looks funky and is unfair.  Replace that sky brush with a solid wall somehow.

So, in short: add more paths, fix the lighting, fix the brushwork, and make some strategic use of equipment spawns.

Also: the custom textures.  Did you make them?  If not, who did, and what license are they under?  You probably need to credit the author.  Finally, are they even necessary?  I'm all for using custom textures, but these don't seem to add anything as there's already a shingles texture, and when we go back and re-do all the textures in high-res, these will be left out.  It also seems weird using shingles for the side of a hut.

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2005, 10:31:12 PM »
thanks for that "short" reply jit  ;D

yeah i know, i didnt run vis on kalsmile cause i knew it would take a week -- it was just an idea, definately not playable.  i don't think i'll be pursuing that map anyhow, just leave that one for dead.

in BSP, the edges on most of the brushes (for me at least) 99% of the time don't align correctly when i rotate them -- any tips on how to properly do so would be appreaciated

also, the sky wallhack thing..  there really is no way around that huh?  when you look through the sky texture, anything behind what you're looking at is visible; i've thought of many ideas of how to try and fix that, but i'm seriously stumped -- i guess i'll just design the maps better.  :P

sorry for the waste of space  ;)

jitspoe

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005, 10:51:15 PM »
kalcrazy

This map looks a lot more promising.  The brushwork is much cleaner.  It appears to be vised properly (but that could use some tweaking, see below), and it offers a couple paths to make the gameplay more interesting.  There are still some problems, however:

1) The lighting is screwed up (see screenshot).  The map almost looks like it's entirely fullbright/uniformly lit.  Two of the lights emit light in the whole map, but for some reason, none of the others do.  What compiler are you using, and with what options?  I'm really curious as to how you ended up with this.  Also, having the lights half-way in the wall looks funny, and there are a couple misaligned light textures (see second sshot).
2) Water, water, everywhere, but it looks funny, don't you think?  Since water is about the only "special effect" quake2 has, mappers have a bad habit of using it everywhere *cough*dirtytaco*cough*.  Don't.  It doesn't look that great. :)  On top of that, with the reflective water enabled, having more than one water surface makes the framerate go to crap.  And vertical water surfaces just look silly.  The water in the ditch in the middle is fine, but I'd take the rest of it out.
3) All autos sucks.  Again.  You have lots of little areas in this map that you could use for weapon and item placements.  Take advantage of it.  Put an auto up on the little ledge around the big post, for example.
4) Though there are two unique paths in this map, they both converge into one at the base.  This may not be an issue as it doesn't look very easy to spray-camp the base, but still it'd be nice to have some alternative strategies in the base itself.  Maybe extend the post ledge to the ladder-tower thingamabob, and move the flag forward (under the thingamabob) so you can come around and grab it from behind.
5) Use that grass/dirt transition texture for the ditch in the  middle.
6) Some of the texture usage is a little... funky.  You have wooden posts supporting marble tiles, for example. Also, you should have a bit of a theme for the map -- especially with the rock stuff.  It looks weird having the grey rock up against the brown rock.  You might also want to make the rock look more... rocky, rather than a flat wall.
7) Make the spawn face forward instead of to the side.

Well, I think that's enough for now.  Oh, and thanks for posting these as beta for review instead of just calling them done and getting someone to put them on a server.

jitspoe

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005, 11:04:44 PM »
Quote
in BSP, the edges on most of the brushes (for me at least) 99% of the time don't align correctly when i rotate them
I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but never, ever, ever, ever, ever use rotate with arbitrary values.  90 degree multiples only.  Due to the nature of quake2 brushes, arbitrary rotation will almost guarantee brush misalignment.  To get arbitrary angles, use clipping planes.

Clipping planes are the perfect tool for brush editing, because that's how brushes work: they're just a bunch of planes.  It's kind of like slicing a block of cheese.  Shift+right click to set a point on the plane.  You can do either 2 or 3 points.  These points define a plane.  In the 3D view, it will show you what the brush will look like after the plane has been carved off.  If you're carving off the wrong side, simply hit the "flip" button.  Hit the carve button, and it will slice off everything to one side of the plane.  You can also use "split", which simply splits the brush(es), but keeps both sides.  This is useful if you want to change the texture on half of the brush or something.  Also useful for making windows.

Once you get the hang of them, you'll probably start using clipping planes for everything.  I know I do. :)

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2005, 12:15:09 AM »
jit, what would I do without you? :)

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2005, 12:25:36 AM »
oh and yeah, I dunno what's up with the light source not working on the second map there..  i'm using arghrad (I don't know if there's any other options) and sometimes it works flawlessly, sometimes it does what you see there. maybe my version of arghrad is old, but from what i understand there isn't an updated version of it (or is there?)  i think it could've been the light texture that i used for the lights, but then again i don't see why that would cause a problem -- everything checked out fine under the settings.  for arghrad i first ran it with -chop 1000 and got a totally dark map.  on beta1 i ran it with -chop 1000 and -minlight .1 i think just to get something in there.  thank you for all your constructive criticism; i'm still progressing as i go along here -- i have a lot of ideas and patience, i'm willing to work with that =p  

loial21

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2005, 01:17:46 AM »
to all concerned,

bleh bleh bleh bleh = Loial has a better ping than a understanding of whats going on :) hugs@@!!!

get me good new maps

go kal go!!!!

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2005, 12:54:06 PM »
rofl loial -- i'll let you know once a beta 2 is done =p  im primarly gonna work on my second map

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2005, 03:02:54 PM »
http://www.h4xerz.com/downloads/kalcrazy_beta2.zip

the only difference between beta1 and beta2 is that in beta2 i've included a backdoor from the base to the middle..

yet still, i'm stumped as to why i cannot get arghrad to light it properly...  i've included the .map and .prt files so if anyone decides to take a crack at it to try and fix it ..by all means  ;)

please, i know someone can tell me why it's not working -- and when you do you'll be rewarded with a box of cookies.

p.s. i lied about the cookies, isn't it more rewarding to know you helped others?  ;D

loial21

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2005, 05:07:09 PM »
Spawning with weapons!!!!  Anythign else on public is a rush to the best gun barrell etc etc etc. LAME. Im here to be killed as fast as possible not to hunt for better equipment.  Bah this is old news anyhow. On to the more important stuff.

Jitspoe can you load this in beta and allow some play testing?

If so Kal lets hook up and test this bad boy out !!!! I will be home tonight. See if you can bug Jitspoe on chat or somthing to make this so.

jitspoe

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2005, 05:11:36 PM »
Um, I just did a qbsp/fastvis/rad right from the bsp export menu and it worked fine: http://dpball.com/files/maps/incomplete/kalcrazy_beta2_lit.zip --  It's a bit splotchy, but the final compile batch file should fix that up.

I'll comment more on the map in a bit.

jitspoe

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2005, 07:51:46 PM »
One thing I forgot to mention in my last post about the map is that there are some things that can be done to improve the VIS.  The window you have by the upper path can be seen all the way from the back of the base, causing some fairly high r_speeds.  If you move to other side of the base, though, the r_speeds cut in half, because you can't see through the window anymore.  If you tweaked that area a bit so you couldn't see the window from far away, it would help the r_speeds and network lag a good bit.

As for the changes you made: well, none of them were things I suggested.  I guess more paths are good, but that doesn't address the issue of the base itself.  Also, I'm not sure why you replaced the light textures with the solid white texture, unless you were just testing.  It looked better with the light textures -- now it looks like there's a texture missing or something.  Also, now that you have that new path, you really need to beef up the walls.  It looks weird having a huge sheet of thin rock supporting the whole level.  And put some clip textures around the colored wood in the center of the map, so people don't accidentally get caught on it when jumping across -- that can be annoying.

Oh, another little thing -- the marble-brick towers have about a 1-foot gap between them and the wall.  It looks like you fixed some things on each side, but not everything (ie: ladder is floating on one side).  You should probably rotate some of those colored wood textures, too.  It looks weird having vertical planks on a horizontal board.  In fact, it would be best to line it up so it looks like a single plank for each ladder rung.

Gonna bug you about the water again, because I think it looks goofy.  Also, you should never have more than one water surface visible at a time because of the reflective water.  Give build 15 a try with r_reflectivewater 1.

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2005, 09:06:55 AM »

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2005, 09:11:43 AM »
almost forgot...

http://www.h4xerz.com/kaltorak/kalcastle_beta1.bsp

k - now go play  :P

KalTorak

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Re: two new maps im workin on...
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2005, 09:47:12 AM »
http://www.h4xerz.com/kaltorak/kalsand_beta1_map.zip

i played against bots in kalsand_beta1 (i was red, bots blue) and sometimes a few bots would spawn on my side; but I would never spawn on blue side.  I looked at the team number on the red/blue spawn points to see if any were wrong, but they appear to be all set.  I don't know what's causing this to happen, so if anyone could take a look at it for me please it would be greatly appreciated =]

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2005, 01:24:10 PM »
Post removed
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:12:54 AM by Dirty_Taco »