Author Topic: New map: - Knots - (Read 4473 times)

Sawy · « **on:** January 04, 2008, 06:49:16 PM »

Hey!

I did few map, but i never post them here.
But i have create this new map:

Knots
I would know if this a good start for mapping? or not.

Few screenshoot:

Blue Base

Low:

Mid Low:

To Download it: http://zilla-clan.net/upload/895907

Thx

sk89q · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2008, 06:58:04 PM »

I like the concepts, but:

* Your map is leaking
* Use the sun for lighting (otherwise it looks gloomy)
* The r_speeds get up to near 6000
* Some misaligned textures

Eiii · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:09:55 PM »

Lights without sources are very, very ugly. You really do need to fix leaks, otherwise VIS doesn't work and RAD looks hideous.
Also, small cramped hallways are a no-no in this game.

DrRickDaglessMD · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:14:27 PM »

haha beat me to it sk89q.

there are a LOT of misaligned textures:

- the small crates in the bases
- most of the barrel tops
- the arch diagonal struts should be rotated so they follow the right lengthwise direction

The broken wall, where the bricks stick out to make rough edges to the hole, doesn't match up with the texture of the wall. Basically, the physical bricks that stick out are a lot smaller than the textured bricks, so it doesn't really make sense. Look at how DirtyTaco has done this effect on pbcup_renoir.bsp.

sk89q is right, the map leaks, I bet it took ages to compile. When you come to compile the map, if it says anywhere '***LEAKED***' then always do a leak check and fix the leak before proceeding.

I envision you having some serious r_speed problems with this map, but we won't really know how badly until you fix the leak.

All in all, a good attempt, and a much nicer concept than some other new maps I've seen lately, so well done! Make sure to fix all the textures and leaks in the next beta.

- Dr Rick Dagless M.D

Sawy · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:18:57 PM »

Thx for comment

So,

1)" Your map is leaking" and "You really do need to fix leaks...":
I know, this is beta, just a test, so i can repair it

2)Use the sun for lighting
I will do it too, i just need find something, but this will be ok.

3) The r_speeds get up to near 6000
I'm not sure to understand

4) Some misaligned textures
Where? i will try find it, and change it.

5)"Also, small cramped hallways are a no-no in this game."
i don't understand yet. i'm french, bad english, but i will try to understand it.

I will change what u said me, and i come back post Beta_2

Thx to your comment DrRickDaglessMD too.
I will try repair all bugs, but i don't really understand when you speak about "r_speed problems" or " r_speeds get up to near 6000" $:-\$

I will try to find.

Thx.

DrRickDaglessMD · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:51:27 PM »

ok,

r_speeds is the name for the statistics that you get when you type 'r_speeds 1' into the console when you're on the map. The numbers basically show what the game is having to draw when you move around in the 3D level. If these numbers are too high, some computers will have trouble keeping up and users will suffer a frame-rate drop. When you type that command in, you want to pay attention to the 'wpoly' number, as that is the most important one. Try and keep it below 2000 at all times. Be aware that using water in your maps these days has the unfortunate side effect of doubling the r_speeds in the area of the water.

keeping low r_speeds is one of those things you learn as you make more and more maps. You need to know about 'VIS'ing (the part of the compiler which carves up the level into what can and can't be seen by the player as he runs around the level) so you can design your map so there aren't places where you can see into different areas (so the game will draw all that area too).

If you have leaks in your map, the compiler can't accurately VIS or light the map, so really you need to fix all leaks straight away!

Its confusing for most native english speakers anyway, so don't hesitate to ask what any of this means

- Dagless MD

marth · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:59:12 PM »

Quote from: sk89q on January 04, 2008, 06:58:04 PM

* Use the sun for lighting (otherwise it looks gloomy)

ever think that maybe not all maps need to look bright and cheery?
oh, and ill try it in a sec, gotta reinstall dp again lol

Sawy · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2008, 08:15:37 PM »

i typed 'r_speeds 1' into my console when i was on my map.
i watch the 'wpoly' number.
Sometimes, number was at 200 or 400, sometimes 2000, and sometimes 3000 or 4000 $:-\$

So, if i understand, the numbers must be at 2000 and not be too hight.
How can i do to keep it below 2000 when numbers are at 4000?

"You need to know about 'VIS'ing (the part of the compiler which carves up the level into what can and can't be seen by the player as he runs around the level)"

What i need to do with 'VIS'ing?

thx

DrRickDaglessMD · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2008, 08:40:20 PM »

Understanding the VIS'ing process can be quite hard, so I'll do my best to try and explain it to you.

Ideally, the game engine doesn't want to have to draw parts of the map it can't see - this is to save on the resources needed to render the game world for the player. To do this, when you make a map, the VIS compiler calculates how to carve up the map, and what area can 'see' into another. for example, if you were stood in a certain spot near a window, you could 'see' the area beyond the window, so the compiler would know that. When you make walls and obstacles out of brushes in the map maker, the compiler treats these like they are solid and can't be seen through. So if you bare this in mind, if you have a map that's very open, there won't be many obstacles blocking your line of sight - so the r_speeds will be very high as the game is having to draw lots and lots of the map all at once, as the compiler has decided that you can 'see' everything.

The Quake 2 engine that DP is based on isn't optimised for open maps, so r_speeds become a very big problem with open large maps.

So, the upshot for you is to:

a) fix the leaks so you can get an accurate measurement of what the r_speeds will be like (at the moment, you can't because the VIS compiler's calculations will all be strange beause of the leaky gaps.
b) look at where you can put some 'VIS blockers'. VIS blockers are just solid obstacles which will block your view, and if done properly should hopefully stop the game drawing parts of the map you don't want it to. These can change the gameplay of your map, however - adding something players will have to jump round, etc... so think carefully about how to use them.
c) redesign parts of your map that are causing VIS problems that can't be solved with VIS blockers. This might mean altering the floorplan of your tunnels, etc... so they don't expose too much of the next area when you are walking down them.
d) using Hint Brushes. Read this for information on Hint Brushing: http://www.gamedesign.net/node/52

for you, I think the mid will cause a lot of problems due to the ice being transparent.

For more info, check http://www.gamedesign.net/node/53 for techniques on lowering the r_speeds. Also, consider taking the water out as that will double your r_speeds.

Hope this helps,

- Dagless MD

sk89q · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2008, 12:05:55 AM »

Unchecking the "Warp" flag will disable reflective water (and warp as well), which is the reason why water doubles r_speeds.

Sawy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2008, 07:05:43 AM »

Ok, so i did Knots_beta2.

so, i have changed:
-the small crates in the bases.

-"the arch diagonal struts should be rotated so they follow the right lengthwise direction".
I don't understand what you means here.

-My map is not leaking now

-i have use the sun for lighting, just a test for moment.

-And when typed 'r_speeds 1' into my console, i watch the 'wpoly' number and it was between 200 and 1300 (i didn't see more)
But epoly number are sometimes hight too when wpoly number are at 1300.

This is good thing?

What can i change, or what i have forget? (with r_speeds too).

Download Beta_2 here: http://zilla-clan.net/upload/520443

Thx to helps

DrRickDaglessMD · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2008, 07:42:27 AM »

Hey,

nice job, the r_speeds are great now - this is why you should always fix leaks straight away! now the lighting and everything works properly too. Don't worry too much about epoly numbers, the game engine handles epoly's much better than wpolys, so it can be a lot higher before you run into problems.

what I meant about the struts is:

the planks should run along the length of the beams. The green arrows are the direction the planks should be.

As for the bricks:

Make the cut outs match the texture. the green dotted line is a suggested plan to help you understand what i mean.

some other texturing problems:

Make sure ALL the barrel tops line up, there are a lot of misaligned barrel tops on this map.

this crate still needs fixing - and the others you have fixed have a different crate texture applied to some sides, which doesn't make much sense. make sure they are all the same texture.

good luck,

- Dagless MD

Sawy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2008, 08:58:45 AM »

Ok, i changed again

So, now:
I think (and i hope) the barrel tops are ok.

I changed the arch too.

I don't understand yet to the bricks, but i have tried something in red camp, but i think this is not that.

To download Beta_3: http://zilla-clan.net/upload/644692

Thx to help.

Chef-Killer · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2008, 11:10:11 AM »

The map looks good. Maybe it is a little bit easy to camp

You should rename it from "Knots_B3" to "knots_b3".

Some more pics:

1. The texture of the left barrel isn't correct.
2. Also it is a bit unrealistic, that the right barrel is into the wood.

1. The DP of these DP-boxes aren't correct. Change the surface ("s") key "SX" to value "-1.0". Then align the texture new. Attention: You have to change the SX key just for two sides, the other two sides should be correct aligned.
2. The small box isn't aligned correct yet.
3. The front of the wood texture should be rotated, that it looks logical. There are also other places where the wood texture isn't aligned correct.

1. The right thing has also a misaligned texture. I think the first pic of Dagless` post explain it better.
2. The ramp is totaly misaligned

. Rotate here also the wood textures.

Sawy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2008, 11:43:53 AM »

Haa...ok
I will try repair this bugs tonight $:-\$

Thx

Sawy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2008, 02:14:25 PM »

So, now, all barrel is not into the wood, The DP of DP-boxes are correct, and all box are aligned correct.
I hope forget nothing.

I haven't change the front of the wood texture, because i don't know how it will to be :/

To download Knots_b3 (same name that last beta, but with this changement): http://zilla-clan.net/upload/467558

Thx

Chef-Killer · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2008, 06:21:34 PM »

knots_b3 (not a big K) would be much better for the mapfile

I will explain you the correct alignment of the wood textures tomorrow.

jitspoe · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2008, 09:30:25 PM »

It's getting there. I've attached a demo of things you should revise. I'm also uploading it to the beta server -- see your PM for details.

Sawy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2008, 08:39:05 AM »

I have did the texture of barrels.
I hope it will be correct.
Look:

Barrels:

I will try do other stuff soon.
I have saw demo of Jitspoe, so i will repair all bugs.
But i have problems to do the correct alignment of the wood textures.

Thx

jitspoe · « **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2008, 08:05:41 PM »

For texture alignment, click on the texture in the 3D window, then hit "S". From there, you can adjust the texture rotation, offset, etc. Also, you can "lift" a texture by right clicking on it, then ctrl+shift+right click to apply it to another surface in the 3D window. Once you get one texture straightened out, you can quickly apply it to other brushes.