lol recession.

[Edgecrusher]

You know that Israel got their land based on politics after 2nd WW. And also they got it for their geostrategical position. It's the divide of the world and all is connected to money.

[hauke]

Funny how economical trends that develop over years and years are instantly blamed on a President that has been in office for a short time.

I hate <insert current president's name here> bashers. You kind of people do nothing but focus on the biased media and bash whatever president is in office, regardless of party. Fact of the matter is, there will never be a perfect president. They're politicians for God's sake. That means they all lie cheat and steal my default. No current presidential candidate will perform the miracles you so desperately seek. You will be disappointed and begin the bashing all over again come November.

I, personally, like the fact that Bush has had the balls to go after terrorists. The US hasn't been attacked on it's soil again since 911. Why is this? Do any of you seriously think they said, "We kill many many Americans and have taught them a lesson...we are done with them."? No. They have definitely had and have plans to attack America on it's own soil. You can thank Bush (and Clinton to a degree) for taking the fight away from our homeland. I don't care if you think there is some OIL or POWER agenda. We have NOT been attacked again. Thank the balls of the US administration for that. War is a necessity of life on Earth. It has been since the beginning of recorded history. There is no Utopia here. Differences in religious belief ensure that will be the case for all of the foreseeable future.

There is no fantasy land here.
If you live in the US stand the intercourse up and fight for your freedom or get the hell out of the country. YES...leave if you don't like. Go somewhere less free and enjoy life!!!

The young men and women of the US are spoiled brats.

And why did Bush attacked the iraq?

[DaRkNeSS]

Well said S8N.  If you guys don't like the U.S. then get the f-word out okay?  You all act like the U.S. is so horrible and that so many other places in the world are better.  If that's the case then gtfo.

And Hauke, you're right.  Freeing a country from a dictatorship which used chemical weapons on its own people is a horrible thing.

[Eiii]

Funny how economical trends that develop over years and years are instantly blamed on a President that has been in office for a short time.

I hate <insert current president's name here> bashers. You kind of people do nothing but focus on the biased media and bash whatever president is in office, regardless of party. Fact of the matter is, there will never be a perfect president.

Of course there won't. You can't keep everyone happy all the time...

...but to say that our current president is just 'imperfect' is taking it too far. Have you seen the state of things? How's our economy been doing? How're our rights doing? How's our government doing? What about other countries approval? They're all pretty bad. We're throwing money away at an unwinnable war, 'increased security' is gnawing away at our individual rights, and our current leader and his pals seems to like to surround himself with his friends and remove those who disagree with him.

If you want to talk about 'going after terrorists', I'd like to know how you think we've won this fight. Since 9/11, our rights have been squelched in a security panic, suspicious people have been targeted, and thousands of Americans have died due to 'The War on Terror'.

leave if you don't like. Go somewhere less free and enjoy life!!!

A 'less free' country where you can protest without being abused by police? One where you can communicate with others without fear of being spied on? Sounds great.

The young men and women of the US are spoiled brats.

Eeh... no argument here.

[DaRkNeSS]

And would you like to tell me which crucial rights of ours have been limited?

[Eiii]

Free speech (Awful video, but it's all police footage, so...)
Free speech (No protest for you!)
Privacy/Unreasonable search (Wiretapping, 'course)
Trial by Jury (Guantanamo! And stuff like this)

...and many more, I'm sure.

[Smokey]

And would you like to tell me which crucial rights of ours have been limited?

Dark, You must be uninformed about the chipping away of our human rights by our government.
Lookup "The Patriot Act", "Real ID", "Bush Impeachment".

This is hardly a democracy anymore.

Edit: Watch This:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=24883005

[Eiii]

Way to link to a video I linked to, Smokey. :<

[hauke]

Well said S8N.  If you guys don't like the U.S. then get the f-word out okay?  You all act like the U.S. is so horrible and that so many other places in the world are better.  If that's the case then gtfo.

And Hauke, you're right.  Freeing a country from a dictatorship which used chemical weapons on its own people is a horrible thing.

Youre right Saddam was a cruel dictator..
but the current situation in iraq isnt better. The whole Iraq war is a total disaster, everyone knows that but bush still defends the war. You should know that war never disolves Problems.

Edit: This has nothing to do with the recession, has it? 
On Topic: I dont care about the recession i´m poor anyway.

[Eiii]

Sure, war solves problems when you do it right. The current war is an example of one not done right.

EDIT: I am, by the way, looking forward to hearing back from Darkness/S8N.

[hauke]

I believe in peace and that war it self is a problem. But you´re right,  sometimes it seems that there is no other option..

[S8NSSON]

To me, Afghanistan isn't a question. We went there to eliminate the terrorists, and will probably remain there for a long time to come.

Iraq, on the other hand is a different story. The US should have went all the way when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The US did not, and only went in when it did out of the convenience of having the forces close by with nothing to do. Fact of the matter is Iraq was in violation of many many UN treaties, but the UN didn't have the balls to act. The US did. The outcome, or the stalemate rather, that the US is locked in now would have been inevitable no matter when the US went in. The nature of the region presents a very difficult goal, but a goal that must be met if that region is to me made safe from the support of terrorism now, and in the future.

Furthermore, backing out of Iraq, regardless of why or when we went in, would be more costly than remaining there and making a viable attempt at stabilizing the country.

Am I the only one here that fully understand this Terminator quote, and how it eerily defines terrorists today?
Kyle Reese: Listen. And understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

There is no option but to fight or die. Terrorists have made it clear that they will get inside our borders and kill many. And they will not stop. Fight them here, or fight them there.

We are less free post 911. true
The US must know more in order to successfully stop further attempts at attacking us.
Less intelligence = more danger of 911 x 1000, which is 911000, and that's scary.

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great...then we will afford the deaths that will result in doing nothing, which will be many.
We have to afford it.

War has happened and will continue to happen forever. I hate war, but recognize its existence. Humans are selfish and destructive. We war, that's what we do.

[DaRkNeSS]

First off, you people all act like being President of the United States is such an easy thing.

Second of all, do you not realize that there are these things out there called terrorists, and they hate us so much they are willing to give their lives to hurt us?

Lookup "The Patriot Act", "Real ID", "Bush Impeachment".

Lookup "September 11"
You see, the terrorists are going to try and attack us no matter what.  So like S8N said, we could either take the fight away from the United States or bring it here.  How many of you have actually read the Patriot Act?

I figured you would bring up the Privacy issue Eiii.  But the way I see it, I know I'm not doing anything illegal so I couldn't care less if the government wants to listen to my phone calls.  Who knows maybe I'll 3-way call them for now on to make it easier.

[Eiii]

I'm all for a war if there's an enemy to fight. In this case, there isn't. We're just kind of throwing troops into another country and shooting at things. That's not to say there's been no success- there has been. But there's no clearly defined enemy in this case, so there's no way to win.

The answer, in my opinion, was to bunker in, not lash out. We don't have anyone to fight. Some temporary extra security measures would have been acceptable- but the extent it's been taken it is unacceptable.

I figured you would bring up the Privacy issue Eiii.  But the way I see it, I know I'm not doing anything illegal so I couldn't care less if the government wants to listen to my phone calls.  Who knows maybe I'll 3-way call them for now on to make it easier.

That's more or less the stance I have, but if we, as a people, allow it, it'll only be a matter of time before it's abused. Big time. Per the video I posted above, riot police are already using cameras at peaceful protests to identify dissenters. I think the implications of that are pretty clear.

[Edgecrusher]

I'm just wondering what do Iraq's thinks of this so called war. How many innocent children have died, women and man also? Casualty of war? That's just BS. Beside, war is over as I remember. So how come hundreds of them die every day who have nothing to do with it. I'll ask you another question. Would you not fight if Iraq invaded USA and now is in controll of it? This has nothing to do with Democracy.

U.S. invaded Iraq sourly on purpose of contorling one of the richest oil part of the world.

Terrorism is secondary in this. There were NO evidence on biochemical weapons or weapons of mass destruction. Furthermore, remember who trained those terrorist and who installed Saddam on his presidency.

You are idealist if you think that this war will protect you in any way and that USA is helping those people. You have not seen war, you haven't felt it so you don't know what you are talking about. You can not justify it. I'm amazed that you are even trying.

I will never forget what USA, GB, France, Netherlands and whole NATO pact did to my country when we fought our war of liberation. But we won. Without your help. So you could really try to get some facts straight before trying to make your arguments only on your national feelings. That has nothing to do with it.

[P!nk]

but if we, as a people, allow it, it'll only be a matter of time before it's abused. Big time.

You're supposed to quote Benjamin Franklin now:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.

[flip]

In case you didn't know.... flip is an ex-military man. I spent 3 years in kuwait and iraq. I was priviliged to a lot of information the average person was not. Trust me on this one folks... based on the ruling group alone in iraq there were plenty of reasons for us to go. I knew something right at the end of the war that most people still can't get through their skulls. Most of the resistance the allies face in iraq are not even iraqi. The majority is young dumb teenagers from other countries that are looking for something to believe in. Sort of like the hippies, the korean teenage protesters, the average teen who lashes out all across the world. But... unlike iraq... it all boils down to... what have you learned growing up? what is the difference between right and wrong?

[magalhaes]

lol@S8N, Hitler has revived!
I don't wish to talk about politics over the internet because its just useless...but comon..you are happy about not having war at your door?
What about the millions that die and live in misery everyday in your country? Not you I'm sure, so why should you care? There is a lot of people dieing in my country too and I don't do anything about it either. But..lol..we got to thank bush not having war at our doors?
And get out of my country if you don't like something? wow.



edit:I was responding about your post in the second page btw, havent got the time to read the rest right now.
But I'm pretty sure its the same line of thinking anyway

[Eiii]

That's not at all what the rest of us are saying, mag.

Also: eek.

EDIT: More support. The BBC is pretty reliable, right? Right.

[Edgecrusher]

This is to all who even think they can validate attack on another country. Part of your childehood was not this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_6Mw5zXUtZ4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sU0JPXUmg44&feature=related

So please, defend your policy even more. Ignorants, not looking on the big picture. Just for the greatness of the USA. People are dieng for no cause at all and you 2 think it's for the greater good. BS. It's for the good of oil companies, construction companies and so on and on. So don't give me the speach OMGZ we were attacked we must defend!!! Open your eyes. People are meaningless in every war, I wonder would you still talk like that if you had really experienced war.