Dictating Play Through Map Design (Pathing)

[S8NSSON]

I know that for each person there are equally as many prefered styles of maps. Some like multiple paths. Some like one path. But as I thought about this while I contemplated further design of my upcoming map I thought out what multiple vs single pathing really meant to the game.

Pathing (in general):
Paths can be thought of as a way to get somewhere. Not all paths are complete paths from flag to flag. Some maps use a central path with sub-pathing. Some sub-pathing will extend the entire length of the map, or be used to simply bypass an area. Some maps can be considered all sub-paths and no main path (or all main paths whichever you like).

More than how many paths a map has, I feel that the construction of these paths is what makes or breaks a map. Multiple choked paths are no better than a single choked path. The only difference being that with multiple paths there is a greater chance of a free run at the flag after having cleared your particular path. The singular experience on that one path should be considered.

Multiple Paths:
Let's look at multiple paths for a moment. Take Jump and Painted Forest for example. Both have multiple paths. For the most part (except for a bit in PForest) the paths are secluded from eachother. But the paths are almost entirely choked. If you make it past your choked path you have a free run at the flag (barring any *cough* deffense). This style of muliple pathing is the most undesirable to me as it promotes cap fests. There is very little chance of getting by the other team on those choked path. You WILL have confrontation no matter how many of your team are keeping the others occupied.

Some maps, on the other hand, utilize multiple pathing with a mixture of intermittent chokes and open passable areas in various ways. DirtyTaco utilizes a good mixture of open paths and chokes. There's just twenty nine miles of the mixture to go through from flag to flag

Single Paths & Main Paths with Partial Paths:
THESE are the ideal maps to me. Not the single path  crates style crap that forces everyone on a team into an area the size of my closet just to spray the tiny area of possible infiltration. Those maps are retarded and should be burned. I'm talking about those maps that allow/require multiple coverage from multiple areas. Those maps that lead each team to a sizable initial confrontation area only to have further coverage needed for those that converge on the are through alternate paths. For the like or dislike of many of my maps, that's how they are designed. No you can't sneak down some secret path and get a free shot at the flag. But on alot of my maps you can get to the initial confrontation area several different ways. It becomes a matter of choice and reaction. Enter the initial confrontation area, choose to concentrate on the area you feel the enemy may apear, and have the reaction time to switch up if you choose wrong. And this design of map need not be accomplished with multiple physical paths. Blocking structures can accomplish this very idea.

I played a map the other day for the first time ever, Barrels. The map apears to be built fairly well. Not the prettiest map, but not the ugliest either. The map is a one path map. Just like 10000 others like pbcup, sandcrap, koth, ectectect.... But the thing I liked about this map is that there was cover across the middle that made you think about where you were shooting. Choose wrong and you were vulnerable. You could get across the middle from many different angles.

I hate getting half way through a topic and then losing my train of thought
So lemme say this. A map, be it single or multiple paths in any configuration, can be good or bad depending on the design of thier paths. Mappers should carefully dictate how they intend the map to be played. Plan for the fast breaks, the sluggish mid speeders, and the deffenders. Plan your maps for the experience of battle.

disclaimer
The subject of this entire post is focused towards competition/match maps. Mapping for public play is another issue we'll deal with on another show.

[jitspoe]

This style of multiple pathing is the most undesirable to me as it promotes cap fests.

Only if you're playing with the crappy old server settings.

Anyway, I think a map is only as good as its tightest chokepoint.  If the entire team sits and sprays the one single path that's necessary at some point to get to their base, gameplay comes to a complete standstill.  Often times the chokepoint is the base itself.  Take shazam, for example.  It has two paths, but they both funnel into the base at the same point.  It's fairly trivial for the defense to just spray that entrance and make it extremely difficult to get to the flag.  So many maps tuck the flag in the corner of a room or something where basically the only way to get through to it is to get lucky running through spray or entirely eliminate the defense.  A team can get a small lead and then just "camp" the flag for the rest of the game, making it impossible for the other team to get any significant point gain.  Strategy, yes, but I don't think it's really that fun for either team.  Even a map like ub_rooftop with a couple different paths into the base suffers the same problem: it's basically impossible to get in, grab the flag, and get out without being eliminated or eliminating the defense.

Personally, I think flags should be very easy to obtain.  They shouldn't be shoved off in a corner, or in a small room, or on the top of a big pile of boxes that you have to jump up, or up on some platform that you have to use a trick jump to get to.  You should be able to sprint through the base, grab the flag, and get out without skipping a beat (or a strafe-jump, as the case may be).  Flags make the gameplay interesting.  Sure, elimination is fun, but nothing gets your adrenaline pumping like grabbing the enemy flag, or when an enemy grabs yours.  I like for that to happen as much as possible.  I'm not saying defense should be impossible, but merely that a single player shouldn't be able to defend the entire base by exploiting poor map design.

The other big thing in pathing and gameplay flow is countering impassible points.  In other words, if there are points along the path where a person can sit and spray, making the path virtually impassible, it severely restricts the flow of the gameplay.  There are often simple things that can be done to work around that.  For example, if somebody hides behind a box and sprays a narrow path, you can put a small box next to the box that an offensive player can jump on, then shoot down at the sprayer player.  Often times these problem areas aren't noticed without thorough testing.  That's why we've been promoting the release of beta maps.  Even if all the textures are aligned and you think you've thought of everything as far as gameplay goes, there will almost undoubtedly be some kind of kink in the gameplay that makes it undesirable.

I think the best kind of map is one that has lots of paths with frequent overlaps.  I really like the new map hobo is working on (routez).  There are paths up the wazoo, but there's also a lot of overlap, so the paths aren't necessarily distinct paths, but instead offer all kinds of ways to outsmart your enemy.  There's plenty of windows and things so you can shoot at people who are on different paths, too.  Also, things like having the jail in the enemy base prevents defense from becoming too excessive, and you can get to the flag from the high route, going up steps, jumping up the ledges on the side, going up the ramp, going up the ladder, etc.  The gameplay is always moving.  You always have to watch your back.  It also seems to play pretty well with a small number of people or a large number of people.  I hope more maps start following this model.

Oh, and for the record, I think barrels is a terrible spray map.  Not as bad as fort20 (GT needs to be taken out back and shot for picking that in a match), but still very bad.

[Eiii]

Pph. Jump is a great map. It does have 2 separate paths, which is kinda annoing, but it flows so well, and each path plays very well too.

EDIT: Are you sure you didn't mean Barrel?

[loial21]

This will be short sense anything I say or do will be discredited   And would hate to dumb down such good points.

Public not Match play first adn foremost, what is played more often. Teach  dont taunt.

Single Paths & Main Paths with Partial Paths:

This best articulates my personal opinion on game play. Not multi paths but different angles of attack are more challenging to the FPS and move the game along faster. Unlike long maps with seprate routes that never interact with other, it make the game more...well boring with out a large group of players to support it.  Again something communtiy does not have.

good post s8n   

*edit
Jitspoe

Flags make the gameplay interesting.  Sure, elimination is fun, but nothing gets your adrenaline pumping like grabbing the enemy flag, or when an enemy grabs yours.  I like for that to happen as much as possible.

Then youll love those small box maps where that happens often.   Or is it that you like to guess where the enemy carrier is going (which path) that leads players  into guess incorrectly and not confrontation. Also not a bad thing about routz but I perfer to see the enemy before I engage it. 

May anthills live forever. I almost won

[jitspoe]

Oh, right -- barrel is the crappy cyko map, and barrels is the crates clone.  I was thinking of barrel.  I'm not sure which one S8N was referring to.

Loial: Which small maps are you referring to?  Flag caps almost never happen in maps like pbcup, indune, and fort20.

[loial21]

anthills for one:)

Anything with a wide playing field wth bunkers ( battle / speed )where caps happen and the kiilling is fun.  Like thirdworld. plenty of cover but minus the cockers and give spyders or tippmans

[S8NSSON]

barrels2 i think... ya know, that map with walls, and barrels, and some boxes over to the side, and a sky too.

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[PiCaSSo]

P.S. IMPACT GRENADES ARE THE happyEST INVENTION SINCE THE SPEEDO L!OL!OL!OL!OL!OL!

 

hahaha the visual of DT in a speedo!  Hey...  that would make a nice player model for Alpha 16

PiCaSSo

[loial21]

pico,

Dont ...Bad XXXX Bad jungle of love.

cya tonight

[loial21]

" DirtyTaco utilizes a good mixture of open paths and chokes. There's just twenty nine miles of the mixture to go through from flag to flag"

True, summer and crimethink are considerably larger than most dp maps, though moonlit2r1 (my latest) is not. The thing is, (especially in crimethink) i've constructed the 29 miles of map in such a way that there is at least one possible route to the flag that is exceptionally fast if you have any advanced skills with jumping. Further, i've placed spawn points in certain positions to render this, say, 'jump-sequence' a possibility almost every round. In summer there is more map to go through to get to the flag, but, again, if you are skilled in any way at jumping you can make it through the map very quickly.

The reason no one knows these things about my maps (mainly crimethink) is because they never get played. I'm sure if crimethink was played regularly, some newbie who was profecient at jumping would realize how quickly he could get to the flag if he got a certain spawn and eventually the rest of the community would pick up on it. I purposfully constructed crimethink in this manner after some of the bad reviews i got from summer taking too long to get to the middle (although i personally think if you are any good at jumping its quite fast and easy). But that really is idealistic thinking that is in no way practical because 'pub-newbies' would rather sit in the flag area in indune and spray a wall.

Really the only map i've made that has way, way too many paths is sassult3.bsp with its astounding 5 paths to the base.

For this quality of pathing that you speak of, jump, indeed, does not have this sort of quality. The choke points on the dry route and water route both require at least one, maybe two lines of spray to subdue any attackers. On the dry route which tends to be more popular, one person can sit in the tower and (if he is any good) ruin any decent rush, not only because its easy to spray both ways in, but its hard to see into that tower. A close analouge would be people camping in the tower on SandTrap. Jump only seems to play so well because its been played so much in public -- every newbie knows how to play jump making it have a more effecient gameplay style. But any map could be played like this if they were played as often as jump (in public).

Finally, i've concluded that the map 'indune' is worse than pbcup, blitz, icepond or an other collection of newbie maps. In pbcup and blitz you have more options than indune if the enemy is camping in his base tossing grenades and spraying. Even crates is better because in crates you only have to get past his spray once, instead of twice like indune. But now i need to go to philosophy lecture so I'll end here.

P.S. IMPACT GRENADES ARE THE happyEST INVENTION SINCE THE SPEEDO L!OL!OL!OL!OL!OL!
LEET JUMP GEEKs Smiley DONT GO BlIND LEARNING THEM JUMPS...whatever. learning stuff sucks.

  Anyway it was a funny thought...after which I observed my offensive behavior,bah sorry. All I ask is one demonstration on how to approach objects and jump on crates, barrels that other wise can seem to be not jumpable despite speed when aproaching on a flat service and still maintaining aim. An illustration, anything. If you can anwser this to my statisfaction It will cut my posts in half.

THAT IS WHAT I THOUHGT, NO RESPONCE.  Stupid leet geeks and there stupid tricks ...BAH!!!!! ;(  , I win.

[S8NSSON]

I pondered for a moment. I came upon a realization. I'm old...err....well besides that.

I thought of DP and small vs large maps, single path vs multiple paths, and came to a conclusion or two.
I thought of real paintball. Not your basic every now and then weekend play, but serious play. The serious pro plays speedball. After a few years of this the serious player tires of the non-stop instant confrontion of this style of game. Those with paintball ingrained in thier blood switch to a less insane alternative, senerio play. This play, although still packed with plenty of action, require more overall planning and thought leading to the battle.

I think the veterans of DP are like old real paintball players. They've endured years of instant blazing action and are now looking for a longer, more thought provoking, experience. I mean let's face it, almost all of the original official DP maps are fast action maps.

I think the  newer players want that fast action. It's evident on the public servers, and by what maps people choose for thier match maps. Although the veterans can like what they like, I think attempting to force the player base into long drawnout maps is wrong. Servers should provide a wide variety of maps covering all styles and let the players choose. There are enough servers that if a map comes up that you don't like just move on to another server.

Could you imagine if the NPPL told Dynasty, Avalanche, and Naughty Dogs they were gonna play this years world cup on a 2 square mile wooded scenerio siege field? LOL yeah right!

So there is a larger place for small, instant action, maps than some of you relize, or are willing to admit. The key is to try to up the quality of these smaller maps while also supporting the larger maps.

My view on InDune:
InDune offers the ability for both teams to make it out of the base and begin initial confrontation because of the blocking structure in the middle. This type of even speed play means the war happens equaly with the better team wasting the other. But there is another factor of Indune, the end game, or second chance. If a team out rushes the other they have to overcome two base chokes to take the round. If, on an equal rush, one team becomes overwhelmed, they can fall back into a double choked deffense. The map may not be to someone's liking, but it is a well liked map by many players, and it has a functional flow to it. If it comes up in rotation just go play somewhere else. If there isn't anyone playing anywhere else, and you can't get anyone to follow you anywhere else, then you are the odd person out in your dislike for the map. Get over it and don't whine inscensantly. You lose respect that way...*cough cough*.

[jitspoe]

You keep trying to lump "large maps" and "good layouts" into the same category.  A map doesn't have to be large to offer strategic gameplay, and simply because a map is large doesn't mean it has a good layout.

I don't know about other people, but I'm not asking for gigantic scenario maps here.  I'm asking for maps where people can't just sit and spray the one and only entrance to the base.

[James]

Obviously you have a intercoursed up perception of what a good map is. Indune brings nothing to DP that any other piece of excrement map that is mirrored brings.

- A wide open middle
- One entrance that is narrow
- Flag room that is easily camped by one person

Now people like you who are easily entertained, I can see this being fun to play five times in a row. Unfortunately, me and several others like to play a variety of maps not just a bunch of maps that are exactly the same with a different name. I'm not saying all these maps that are small and mirrored are garbage, some of them are actually kind of fun. I mean, I don't like the map Blitz, but I enjoy goint 150-30 on you newbies. I think Jitspoe's beta thing he's doing is good because it lets others give insite before the maker just throws something together and puts it on a server, although an experienced mapper who likes quality would have already checked that. Also, whining doesn't really matter when you're being smited by a force that you can't stop.

Now for the loss of respect? I mean honestly, who gives a intercourse? I could care less if someone respects me. OMG WAY TO REPRESENT ER33T! L!OL!O!L. The thing you forget is that I represent eR33t by owning, which I do. As for you, you make threats about meeting people in real life.  You're a real winner in life, I respect you.

Lmao.

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[James]

I left one part untainted. As for joining the graffiti servers and complaining about the maps, unfortunately for most, that's the only american server people play on. A shame when more than half the server complains about the map and they're all ignored because 2 people like the one it's on. You may think people like to play Indune, jump, shazam, and airtime 24/7, but that's only because they're blocked out by the people who can actually do something about it.

Now you're probably saying to yourself, "I help pay for these servers I should be able to play whatever I darn well please." Which is true, but you also make yourself look like a lame ass by ignoring the suggestions of others. Again, if they don't like it they can leave, and again unfortunately they're the only decent servers running.

[jitspoe]

unfortunately they're the only decent servers running.

What's wrong with the EV1 servers?

[S8NSSON]

Ooo lots to reply to...fun.

Lemme adress the person I actually have an ammount of respect for, then i'll get to the moron with the palindrome name.

DT, dude, I figure you for a reasonable person. I have nothing to do with map selection on GT servers. I'm at my own skill level and give or receive ass whoopins equally (well i probably receive more than give, but i mean how either affects me). You guys just wouldn't stop last night. You continually boogered and boogered. Normally in play, irc and this forum you are a decent straight forward person, but last night you were being an ass. If that was your intention then it worked cause it pissed me off. You just wouldn't stop. Enough is enough sometimes. Last night you spoke as if everyone on that server was beneath you. From what i've been told ereet pretty much acts that way. Well sorry man i'm beneath no one, and sometimes I just don't feel like tolerating that kind of crap, especially form someone I respect. To continue that crap after I asked you to stop simply showed me exactly how much respect you have for me. Well that pissed me off. Take what I say how you wish.

Oh and i'm 42, not 50. Hmmm...guess that's getting close to 50 though.

As for bobs comments:
1 Nowhere in my comments about InDune did I ever say I liked or disliked the map. I simply stated why I felt people like the map and what type of play it offered.

2 I don't pay any money towards the GT servers and have no authority on them.

3 I play how I play. Being owned is of little concern to me.

4 I don't make empty threats. I just don't differentiate between online and real life. I don't hide behind my monitor and squeal like a little booger like some DP players. If that scene would have happened on a real paintball field I would said enough, and if ignored I would have escalated the cituation to the next level. If that involves violence, then so be it. I'm in Georgia for god's sake. We intercourse our sisters, hunt deer, drink beer, drive pickup trucks, wave rebel flags, and settle stuff with violence.

Now sure the odds that I will ever get to meet up with someone that really pisses me off on the PC is slim, but I have no reservation about letting someone know they crossed the line of which point I would be ready to throw down if it were real life. And they always laugh in my face and that's fine with me. I don't take crap in real life and won't in this virtual world either. It's a small world, ya never know. And sure everyone in the world might be able to kick my "old" ass, but the way I figure that's just what you'll have to do if/when we ever meet if you intercourse with me. So whatever.

And, now that I think about it, nothing about this cituation is any of your business anyways. So go back in the corner and only speak when you are spoken to.

Funny, didn't even realize James == bob.
Everglades is nice.

[loial21]

I will further stupify yall with me blazin smarts.

Why arn't teleports used more often.

Uh I have apologized, and lets face it Taco. Other than blitz and bain your clan has to be accountable for newb bashing as well. What its ok for you to bash newb but not for me to make an ass of my self. So put your self in that catatgory of loial and z german players, hipocrit. At least I can say Sorry, something I owed Bob and u2 owe the community.

FYI Airtime is not blocked on evl and complaining about the map creator, how did that help? You just made your case worse about bashing people for not thinking like you.
Now, Bob more often than not, starts the poop talkin, im just not taking his poop, it smells bad.

FYI I begged to have that map changed to anything but cosmic club it gives me seizures or whatever, she was kind enough to change it and the first thing I here "WHAHHHAHAWAHAAAA you changed the map blah blah newbs blah".I simple steped up to say be quiet and play, and you to didn'y leave it alone. Lets see from now no newb comments from yall, no retorts from me. Agreed? Can we not be adults
Well kind of sticking my head on a platter but if you can be nice so can I. BTW As if you care what I say and if does bother you, well I am sorry, really.
There was a time when bob/smoke/james/and other names was nice to me, he even asked my opion on his beta and I tested with him. Sure he talk poop , but never with such malign scoffing, I havent changed BOB. Its still me the one that was one your buddy list in GSA. Shakes head and hope for the best, but knows better.

[jitspoe]

DT: What has er33t done to you?  Or is that just a side I never really saw?  Surely you don't think such childish behavior is going to improve the situation any?  I hate indune as much as the next guy, but what does taking a bad situation and making it worse accomplish?  It's that type of behavior that's leading to the degradation of the community.  You may think you're funny, but people learn from and emulate the actions of other players.  If the older community members act like a bunch of jerks, it's going to rub off on the new players, until the whole community is completely intolerable.  What we need are role models.  People the new players can look up to and respect.  Do we have any people like that?  We've had some.  Some just leave because they can't stand how the community acts.  Is that what you want?  To drive away all the respectable members until all that's left is a bunch of whiny lamers who throw a hissy fit whenever they don't get their way?  Think about it.  You, too, bob.  And everyone else out there.  You're all capable of acting in a civilized manner.

Loial: Teleports don't really fit well into the theme of most maps, but that does give me an idea...

* jitspoe creates an ent file for indune that teleports people into and out of the base.