This is ridiculous.

[wafflez205]

perfectly said

[Eiii]

I assume you would be the perfect committee member, hm?

You don't seem to realize that the whole point of this committee is to take jitspoe's place- ideally make the same or similar decisions, but with less blame on a particular person to slow stuff down too much or cause a revolt. And jits gets more time to do other stuff.

I don't see how the current decision is biased. As I see it, we have proof that Kilo possessed hacks and proof he wanted to distribute them. We don't know the scale of the latter, but either way that's a very serious offense. Definitely permaban material. How is it not?

(If I'm wrong on any of this, do point it out. In a non-condescending way, ideally.)

EDIT: Wafflez, stop posting unless you have something MEANINGFUL or even mildly USEFUL to contribute. Really, you're going to get banned in about four posts if you don't cool it.

[Y2J]

Take any personal shot you want at me, like I would be a perfect committee member. I can GUARANTEE that I would be a far better committee member than at least 95% of the people on there. If this was Jack Welch style, I would be in the top 5% every year.

I don't see how you're going to punish someone more for assisting then actually committing. Those that actually use the hacks, thinking they are going undetected (or just plain stupid), should be banned the longest for hindering other people's ability to enjoy the game, and making a mockery out of any clan scene if they are using them in matches.

Those that are posting links, or helping others: Yes, it's extremely stupid, and also shouldn't be allowed. But those that they are telling have read the terms of service, they are using them at their own discretion. I'm not saying don't ban these people, but I am saying those that actually use the hacks should definitely be banned more, and then those that use and distribute have another level.

Now keep in mind, assisting is completely different than creating. Zalteck, or whoever that guy is that created ZGH, ban him forever, I completely agree. Anyone else who comes along and creates a wallhack, or creates textures and mass distributes them, ok.

But those who are just giving links to already known hacks, do not warrant a lifetime ban. Especially considering the more people they tell, the better chances of jits eventually finding out, I think that the punishments need to be at the very least, equal for using and distributing, and if anything, more for using.

 

[James]

Take any personal shot you want at me, like I would be a perfect committee member. I can GUARANTEE that I would be a far better committee member than at least 95% of the people on there. If this was Jack Welch style, I would be in the top 5% every year.

I don't see how you're going to punish someone more for assisting then actually committing. Those that actually use the hacks, thinking they are going undetected (or just plain stupid), should be banned the longest for hindering other people's ability to enjoy the game, and making a mockery out of any clan scene if they are using them in matches.

Those that are posting links, or helping others: Yes, it's extremely stupid, and also shouldn't be allowed. But those that they are telling have read the terms of service, they are using them at their own discretion. I'm not saying don't ban these people, but I am saying those that actually use the hacks should definitely be banned more, and then those that use and distribute have another level.

Now keep in mind, assisting is completely different than creating. Zalteck, or whoever that guy is that created ZGH, ban him forever, I completely agree. Anyone else who comes along and creates a wallhack, or creates textures and mass distributes them, ok.

But those who are just giving links to already known hacks, do not warrant a lifetime ban. Especially considering the more people they tell, the better chances of jits eventually finding out, I think that the punishments need to be at the very least, equal for using and distributing, and if anything, more for using.

 

perfectly said

[Eiii]

Take any personal shot you want at me, like I would be a perfect committee member. I can GUARANTEE that I would be a far better committee member than at least 95% of the people on there. If this was Jack Welch style, I would be in the top 5% every year.

Considering you don't (shouldn't) have access to the discussions that the community has, that's a pretty big assumption. Not incorrect- just big.

I don't see how you're going to punish someone more for assisting then actually committing. Those that actually use the hacks, thinking they are going undetected (or just plain stupid), should be banned the longest for hindering other people's ability to enjoy the game, and making a mockery out of any clan scene if they are using them in matches.

In this case, that's a moot point- even if wulfie did hack, per this, previous offenses don't really count.

Those that are posting links, or helping others: Yes, it's extremely stupid, and also shouldn't be allowed. But those that they are telling have read the terms of service, they are using them at their own discretion. I'm not saying don't ban these people, but I am saying those that actually use the hacks should definitely be banned more, and then those that use and distribute have another level.

Above you made the case that those who 'hinder other people's ability to enjoy the game, and make a mockery out of any clan scene' should get longer ban times. That seems exactly like what someone who is distributing cheats is doing. I do think ban times for using hacks should be lengthened as well, though.

Now keep in mind, assisting is completely different than creating. Zalteck, or whoever that guy is that created ZGH, ban him forever, I completely agree. Anyone else who comes along and creates a wallhack, or creates textures and mass distributes them, ok.

Agree'd.

But those who are just giving links to already known hacks, do not warrant a lifetime ban. Especially considering the more people they tell, the better chances of jits eventually finding out, I think that the punishments need to be at the very least, equal for using and distributing, and if anything, more for using.

Disagree'd. Like I said, you are effectively actively destroying the game for others by ensuring that more people use hacks and enabling them to do so. If you have one person distribute a hack to 5 people, he just did five times the damage he could have done alone (assuming he gave the hack to people who will use it). And, if his ban time is shorter than that of others (or nonexistant), he can continue to distribute his hacks and such and do even more damage. Distributing is worse than hacking.

EDIT: Hey look, I'm over 4k. Whoo.

[Y2J]

You are one of the few who feel this way is the problem.

If you check that poll out for assisting players in cheating:

No ban     - 24 (33.8%)
8 day ban    - 4 (5.6%)
16 day ban    - 2 (2.8%)
32 day ban    - 18 (25.4%)
64+ day ban    - 23 (32.4%)
   
That means 48 users feel the ban time should be 32 days or less while 23 users feel the ban time should be 64 days or more.

The committee is supposed to take in account the COMMUNITY'S best interest, not their own.

Hence why they are elected by the community.

Edit: And also, if you were to add 1024 days to that, or whatever amount people are getting banned for, I would venture to guess a whole lot more would side toward 64 than 1000.

[Y2J]

Considering you don't (shouldn't) have access to the discussions that the community has, that's a pretty big assumption. Not incorrect- just big.

I never claimed it to be an assumption, it was a guarantee on my behalf. And whether or not I can or can't see their discussions, I can tell by the reaction their decisions get through out the community on various matters that come about, that very few topics have been handled to the majority opinion of the community (which is who elected the committiee, to represent them)

[FlaMe]

ya i mean spook flames me all the time on the forums

...The only thing stopping me is KnacK's ban stick

You are probably the most annoying poster on the forum right now, you've been around 3 days and youre commenting on our committee, the community, and posting more often than KiLo.

[KiLo]

Hey I resent that comment. I haven't posted nearly as much as I used to.

[Gamabunta]

hmm, you know what? If there would be permban for hacking once, then very few would try to hack. And noone would do it again, that's what I think. And if not perm, make it 256 days at least. No mercy for cheaters.

[jitspoe]

You are one of the few who feel this way is the problem.

If you check that poll out for assisting players in cheating:

No ban     - 24 (33.8%)
8 day ban    - 4 (5.6%)
16 day ban    - 2 (2.8%)
32 day ban    - 18 (25.4%)
64+ day ban    - 23 (32.4%)
   
That means 48 users feel the ban time should be 32 days or less while 23 users feel the ban time should be 64 days or more.

The committee is supposed to take in account the COMMUNITY'S best interest, not their own.

Hence why they are elected by the community.

Edit: And also, if you were to add 1024 days to that, or whatever amount people are getting banned for, I would venture to guess a whole lot more would side toward 64 than 1000.

The way I look at it, 41 people think the ban time should be 32 days or more, and 30 think it should be less, so the majority of people think bans for helping people with cheats should be at least as long for using them.  Also, if you throw out the 20 or so people that are either guilty of this or are friends of people guilty of this, there are hardly any votes less than 32 days.  You're twisting things quite a bit to say "one of the few."

As for the committee, it's really a lose-lose situation for me.  If I have no committee, then people will accuse me of being biased and unfair.  If I hand-pick committee members, I'm still biased and supposedly pick people that match my views and interests.  If the community elects the committee, then people say it's a popularity contest and the committee members are incompetent, etc.  I'm open to suggestions.

[coLa]

If I hand-pick committee members, I'm still biased and supposedly pick people that match my views and interests.    I'm open to suggestions.

wouldn't that be the best thing to do? the committee is supposed to represent the community, and do what's best for us. before all this you were doing a pretty good job. i understand that it's alot for one man to handle, so wouldn't it be wise to pick a committee that see things the same way you do? instead of a whole bunch of biased "leaders".

[Garrett]

You can't win Jitspoe.  There will always be people who will disagree with the authority's decision just because they can.

[Justinph5]

just hand pick them and temp ban the complainers from the forums.... I'm tired of all their whining...

[KiLo]

I would like jitspoe to do it himself. I believe that he would be more sensible about the ban times.

This is how I look at it. When jitspoe handled everything it ran rather smoothly. Since the committee has been introduced the road has turned rocky so to speak.

[FlaMe]

Why is anyone still arguing. whats done is done. christ

[Y2J]

The way I look at it, 41 people think the ban time should be 32 days or more, and 30 think it should be less, so the majority of people think bans for helping people with cheats should be at least as long for using them.  Also, if you throw out the 20 or so people that are either guilty of this or are friends of people guilty of this, there are hardly any votes less than 32 days.  You're twisting things quite a bit to say "one of the few."

The problem with that, is that if those people that voted 32 days really thought it should be more than 32 days, as you claim, they would have voted for 64. It seems the people that put 32 just wanted it to be consistent with the actual ban for hacking. And while we're on the subject of friends/etc, how about enemies of the banned/accused. Of course they are going to seek a harder punishment on these guys, because they don't like them and want them gone. And unfortunately a lot of committee members think they are holier than thou, or have vendetta's against people in the community, so that interferes with a reasonable vote.

My opinion on a committee solution: Get a list together of people who would want to serve on a committee, have it be an application process, and you (jitspoe) pick 10 individuals, who can see different sides of arguments, are well spoken, and most importantly willing to help. Then when an issue came about, five people would be randomly chosen from the 10 to decide the case, you don't have the entire committee voting. Anyone can present arguments for either way, but only 5 vote. And also, when an issue comes about, and say it involved me. It would be unfair to have people on the committee who have expressed a hatred for me, or who would love to see me out of the community, so like jury selection, I could veto 2 committee members from participating. But on the twist side, the committee (or you, or someone..) could veto 2 committee members from participating because of their alliance with me. That would potentially leave 6 people out of a 5 needed still, and I think would be a lot fairer than the current system.

Obviously I was brief with it, and it's missing stuff, but it's just a general idea to make the committee somewhat better. And I know I gave you the power to choose the committee members in the application essentially, which I guess you don't want to do, but at this point, it is your game, it's up to you in my opinion. If you want a bunch of stifflers out for heads in the committee, so be it. If you wanted a fair/balanced committee, I think you would be able to get that too, and I think you would agree the only way to do that seems to be by people being placed, and not popular vote. Because right now a popular vote would either lead to a bunch of stifflers, or a bunch of people that don't care.

[FlaMe]

First well thought out post ive seen on this forum in about... 2 weeks.

Kill the current committee, make an application, let people who WANT to be on the committee apply using it with a "resume" (accent on that e) and look through em, pick a top 10, make Prerequisites and lets do this?

i nominate Y2J

[Garrett]

[...]
Kill the current committee, make an application, let people who WANT to be on the committee apply using it with a "resume" (accent on that e) and look through em, pick a top 10, make Prerequisites and lets do this?
[...]

[...]
i nominate Y2J

Didn't you kind of just contradict your self?  You want a application process and you nominate Y2J.

Though I don't have a problem with the current committee, I really like Y2J's idea.  The only bad thing that could come from this is that Jitspoe will get about 50 or so applications.  That will take a while to read.  Hopefully Jitspoe likes this Y2J's idea so we can use that process when and if there is a reelection.

[lekky]

There is no way to pick the "best committee" using an application process.

You want people to make CVs? How many would actually be truthfull do you think?

At the end of the day, 10 members should be able to, on average, make a good decision. That has been done. What has happened is that ANY chance to jump on peoples backs has been taken.

I would like to offer my guarantee to people, NO MATTER who was in the original committee, do you think where we are now would be any different? The nature of the people who play this game would force this situation to occur no matter what.

I've said it before, getting bored of it now actually. Everyone in this community needs to take a good long look at themselves, and assess what they truly are trying to stand up for. Some have the correct ideas and principles, many do not.

I have seen so many good points from people since the community began, points that really should have been taken on, but have just been lost under the sheer amount of bull shi.t thats been thrown around.

The Community needs to be saved, needs a new beginning. I don't think a new Committee will bring about ANY change whatsoever, the Community will still be made up of the same people, with the same bag of the same bull shi.t ready to throw around.

I really feel sorry for the people who have put a lot of effort into this game, and funnily enough those are the people that are rarely involved with any of these threads, know why? I do, they care about the game, not about themselves or trying to make a name for themselves, or trying to throw around shi.t under the guise of justice.