Author Topic: Make ban times consistent  (Read 16737 times)

m7feettall

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2008, 05:35:19 PM »
Youre posting yourself into a hole m7.

You cant ban everyone for hacking with a lifetime. ruins the game, its community, and its fanbase...

youd know this if you idled more than just #team_int on IRC =\

A. Not everyone hacks.
B. Those who hack are not worth keeping for part of the community or fanbase.
C. If DP died because it turns out everyone DOES hack then it deserved to die. But again, that is not the case.
D. Are you saying if I idled more I would see more hackers?




FlaMe

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2008, 05:53:15 PM »
yes like me. ive hacked. got banned too... your opinions are a bit one sided. =(

banning me from the game for life for a one time use of penix or multiple accounting is a bit over the top...

m7feettall

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2008, 06:03:53 PM »
yes like me. ive hacked. got banned too... your opinions are a bit one sided. =(

banning me from the game for life for a one time use of penix or multiple accounting is a bit over the top...

Multi accounting is not hacking.

And banning you for life from the game, or anyone else who does it, is exactly what this game needs. Then others will not get the message that you can do what you want and only get 32 days.

As to a one sided opinion, yes, I am clearly on the side that does not cheat.  Cheaters should have no side. They should be banned from the game, from the forums and should be held up as examples of what not to do and be.



Deranged

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2008, 06:06:16 PM »

Please demonstrate how not letting someone play dp is like the death penalty? It is not remotely similar.  There is nothing horrendous in preventing someone from playing a game that they have undermined by their actions.

Cheating ruins the game, ruins the experience for others and should not be tolerated in any way.  And i do not even watch CSI, nor am I pretending to be an agent, finding things out. I am asking that when folks are found they are removed from the community so we can have a decent game.

Ok let's say right now everyone who ever hacked got permabanned. How many active players do you think would be left.. the answer might surprise you.

Clearly the analogy was a little complicated for you so let me explain where I was coming from. See the permaban symbolizes the death penalty because it is an effective killing of the person's dp-life.

Let's back up to another real world example, this time using posession of drugs and distributing of drugs. Posession of marijuana in most states will get you under a year of jail time or just a fine. distributing of marijuana will get you between 1 and 5 years usually.

Substitute hacks in for drugs and maybe you'll see why your idea makes no sense.

Multi accounting is not hacking.

And banning you for life from the game for one time of hacking is what is needed in this game. Then others will not get the message that you can do what you want and only get 32 days.

Flame got banned for hacking before he multi-accounted, should probably check up on that kind of stuff before you tell him what he was and wasn't banned for. And look at him now.. The system worked flawlessly. I see a decent member of the community who is 100% hacks free.

EDIT: A longer ban time won't make it more of a deterrant, if anything more people will just try to beat the system!

FlaMe

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2008, 06:10:27 PM »
Lol m7, stop posting... seeing as in half this community knows how to hack or has hacked and been banned....

kill the community, great logic. find a new game if you feel so strongly about this.

m7feettall

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2008, 06:15:16 PM »
Ok let's say right now everyone who ever hacked got permabanned. How many active players do you think would be left.. the answer might surprise you.

Let's first go with what I actually proposed. Permaban those who were CAUGHT. That would be those on the ban list, minus those who multi-accounted. I could live with that with no regrets whatsoever.


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Clearly the analogy was a little complicated for you so let me explain where I was coming from. See the permaban symbolizes the death penalty because it is an effective killing of the person's dp-life.

Nope, not complicated. Just that the two are not comparable. But let's take your analogy on your terms for a moment.

A. The death penalty is a SEVERE penalty in LIFE.  Stealing chips is a relatively MINOR crime in LIFE. Therefore the punishment would not fit the crime.

B. A permanent ban is a SEVERE penalty in DP. Cheating is a SEVERE CRIME in DP as it invalidates the whole game, making it pointless when folks have an unfair advantage over others. Therefore a severe punishment in DP is given out for a severe crime in DP. There is no problem there..



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Let's back up to another real world example, this time using posession of drugs and distributing of drugs. Posession of marijuana in most states will get you under a year of jail time or just a fine. distributing of marijuana will get you between 1 and 5 years usually.

Substitute hacks in for drugs and maybe you'll see why your idea makes no sense.


Cheaters kill the game. Those who help cheaters kill the game. We don't need EITHER of them to hang around for one second more than it takes to discover them if we actually value the game. Unlike drug dealing etc. this is not involving jail time or anything of the sort. It is only involving the removal of a privilege.



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Flame got banned for hacking before he multi-accounted, should probably check up on that kind of stuff before you tell him what he was and wasn't banned for. And look at him now.. The system worked flawlessly. I see a decent member of the community who is 100% hacks free.


I didn't tell him at all what he was banned for. He raised both scenarios as part of the conversation.  I was differentiating between hacking, which my initial proposal addressed, and multi-accounting, which it did not.

As for his reform why would I ever trust him if he twice broke the rules? For all I know he still hacks and hasn't been caught. That would not be a question mark if he were simply banned.



m7feettall

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2008, 06:16:22 PM »
Lol m7, stop posting... seeing as in half this community knows how to hack or has hacked and been banned....

kill the community, great logic. find a new game if you feel so strongly about this.


A. I would be fine with losing half the community if all of them hacked.
B. You have yet to demonstrate that half have hacked. Certainly not half have been banned.
C. Your reasoning seems to be that cheating should continue on unabated because you like the cheaters. No thanks.
D. I don't get the idea that you are at all remorseful over your actions. You seem to think everyone who wants to get rid of cheating should find another game and just allow the cheats.



FlaMe

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2008, 06:26:32 PM »
lol you inferred all that from 2 lines of text? impressive...

Im saying you need to find a new game if you have a problem with the community being a bunch of jerks/ex hackers...

im not remorseful for using the penix wallhack? why should i be? i took my 32 days and came back like everyone else...

also I never said half the clan hacked/hacks i said half knows how, has in the past, or has been banned for it...
 
Dont change my words =\

Deranged

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2008, 06:36:59 PM »

A. I would be fine with losing half the community if all of them hacked.

Well it's a good thing you're not in charge, cause you would do a horrible job at running an online game with that mentality.

B. You have yet to demonstrate that half have hacked. Certainly not half have been banned.

Lol.. global login isn't very old. You should go back and read some posts from before when login was around.

C. Your reasoning seems to be that cheating should continue on unabated because you like the cheaters. No thanks.

They already get banned. nobody said cheating should continue, all everyone has said is that your punishment is way meddling overkill for the crime.

D. I don't get the idea that you are at all remorseful over your actions. You seem to think everyone who wants to get rid of cheating should find another game and just allow the cheats.

No, he just said you should find a different game because you're being neurotic over how to control cheating. Effectively what you're saying is "to keep puppies from pooing in the house we should kill all the puppies."


KnacK

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2008, 07:04:17 PM »
THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE - NO REAL LIFE COMPARISONS KTHX.


Now, M7.....

I am completely on your side.  If you hack or cheat, perm ban.

Get over it people.

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banning me from the game for life for a one time use of penix or multiple accounting is a bit over the top...

Go play CS and cheat, I dare you.

If you got caught with punkbuster playing another game, you'd get a perm ban first time out, no warnings.

Why should DP be different?

Like M7 said, if banning all cheaters significantly reduces the size of the community, then it does deserve to die and Jits can breath a sigh of relief in that he wont have to worry about the idiots CHEATING IN A FREE GAME.



FlaMe

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2008, 07:25:55 PM »
communitys not that tight in CS

i could mac address change, and ip change real quick and evade that... with a new account and nobody would care enough to ban me...

so yeah =\

PiCaSSo

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2008, 07:33:16 PM »
I wonder what m7's opinion of your blue poka dotted neon green speedo would be knackerz?? *Snap* oh wait that's your man thong hehe

On the subject, I'm curious if Jitspoe has made any comparisons to prior years in relation to his more recent efforts to stop cheating.  (Cheating is up or down by what %)

KnacK

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2008, 07:57:04 PM »
flame, you can't ip change as easy as you think you can.
MAC spoofing yes.

m7feettall

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2008, 08:01:11 PM »
lol you inferred all that from 2 lines of text? impressive...

Im saying you need to find a new game if you have a problem with the community being a bunch of jerks/ex hackers...


And I say why? Easier to get rid of the hackers.

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im not remorseful for using the penix wallhack? why should i be? i took my 32 days and came back like everyone else...

Exactly. You could care less that what you did was wrong. You just served your time.


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also I never said half the clan hacked/hacks i said half knows how, has in the past, or has been banned for it...
 
Dont change my words =\

Alright, demonstrate your words. Show Which ones that includes. List for me the following:


a. All previous hackers that were caught.
b. All current hackers.

Let's see if it adds up to fifty percent.


m7feettall

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2008, 08:06:42 PM »
Well it's a good thing you're not in charge, cause you would do a horrible job at running an online game with that mentality.

Why would getting rid of cheaters be bad? You have yet to tell me other than you think it is "overkill".

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Lol.. global login isn't very old. You should go back and read some posts from before when login was around.


I have read some of them. But since you are making the claim that it was half of the population i want you to document it. Feel free to provide the stats.

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They already get banned. nobody said cheating should continue, all everyone has said is that your punishment is way meddling overkill for the crime.

Yet other games give permanent bans for cheating. How is it overkill?  You not liking it and preferring people to get a slap on the wrist does not make it overkill.


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No, he just said you should find a different game because you're being neurotic over how to control cheating. Effectively what you're saying is "to keep puppies from pooing in the house we should kill all the puppies."



Again a failed analogy. Puppies will poop. But players NEED NOT HACK.  They choose to.  But I would get rid of EVERY cheater, no matter how bad you think that is.


m7feettall

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2008, 08:08:13 PM »
communitys not that tight in CS

i could mac address change, and ip change real quick and evade that... with a new account and nobody would care enough to ban me...

so yeah =\
'

You have not addressed his logic. You have only said that you could EVADE in CS. You have not addressed the fact that VALVE also thinks cheating is a perma ban worthy offense.  The whiners in this community who get caught and  don't like it are not really representative of other people's views on cheating.

Now since you have just demonstrated also that this community IS tighter and we would figure it out, that is all the better reason to make a more fool-proof permanent ban on cheaters. We could do it BETTER than Valve. Let's start now.


You screw up the game and you should have no part in the game.

webhead

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2008, 08:08:35 PM »
Go play CS and cheat, I dare you.

If you got caught with punkbuster playing another game, you'd get a perm ban first time out, no warnings.

Why should DP be different?

communitys not that tight in CS

so what? what does the closeness of the community have anything to do with cheating/bans?

FlaMe

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2008, 08:19:52 PM »
so what? what does the closeness of the community have anything to do with cheating/bans?

yes? punkbuster and VAC ban you with a computer which doesnt know your history / background

dp youre banned by a single person, who knows if your ips look the same and the people you play with are the same 300 as opposed to over a thousand...

totally diff scenarios, if you dont think ban evasion is easy on VAC or punkbustered servers, youre mistaken.

webhead

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2008, 08:35:11 PM »
i don't understand why a person's history should matter to their ban time - at least in a fair system. are you against a fair system?

and what does ban evasion have to do with anything? it's the least of my interests - aside from catching those who do it. and i think ban evasion is more deserving of a perma-ban than cheating is.

FlaMe

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Re: Make ban times consistent
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2008, 08:39:20 PM »
im saying the VAC and Punkbuster reference was a bad one... nothing more.