HomingBullet and Wanted using an Aim bot?

[atmays]

Homing comp down, and I aint been on to see where bullet is.

[coLa]

Just wondering when it became mandatory to produce a demo of yourself. Look I just got back into the game. Well this is the first time I have ever seen a player banned because they didnt post up their demos. Seems like lame evidence too in the first place. Which it must be lame for you to ask the charged to produce evidence against themselves.  Whether he cheated or not in another game is none of DP2's admin or committee's business. Thats urban terrors problem not DP's. It seems like lately with this committe bs, bans have been became really inconsistent. One guy gets 32 and the other one gets 1024 day ban for the same offence. Then here we have two guys that get banned finally after a 6+ page forum topic is debated through. Something just really seems off. If there hacking fine, ban them. Dont beg them too produce evidence of them cheating just so you can be sure. If you ask me, if your having to ask the charged to produce your evidence then you may want to reconsider the evidence you have as inconclusive. This is the first time Ive even seen a ban thread go to the 5th page before the player is actually banned. Jits, no offense to you and really appreciate everything you do. Though if this cheat is undetectable and the only way to prove guilt is by debating demo's on the forum, mind you that these demo's have none of the obvious or definite proof of cheating (such as different colored models and whatever hacks have in them) other than the aim "snapping to players", you may want to work on the detection method before trying to ban people.

To sum it up...
1. No definite proof other than "OMG HAX SNAPPING AIM"
2. Banning across the community has became really inconsistent.
3. Player only gets banned after 5 pages of debating, and not producing further evidence for review, whats wrong with the original evidence.

Just a few things seem "off", if you ask me.

Edit: I have just got back into the game 2 days ago, as previously stated. I am in the same clan as these guys. Though the only two from my clan, I have played with are vlad and atmays. So I really have no feeling one way or the other about the bannings just because they are my "clanmates". I'm more concerned with the way bannings are being handled. Its very sloppy if you ask me. I have played other FPS, and well the evidence is always sharp and to the point. The bannings were always swift and permanent none of this playaround 32, 64,... 1024 day bs. Just bang your caught, please stay out and have a nice life.

did you actually take the time to read every post and understand? have you ever seen an aimbot being used? if you would have read the thread you would have known that with or without their demos they were going to be banned. obviously the original demos that were posted were enough to prove them guilty of the offense in question. now they had a choice to either post their demos and receive a 32 day ban(since it was their firs offense) or continue to refuse to post them and receive a 64 day ban. clearly we can see which route they decided to take. it's no one fault but their own, since no one forced them to use this hack.

seems like the bans have been pretty consistent to me. but as we all know, it takes the committee 5+ days to come to a decision on a ban time. i guess there is no harm in that. it seems as though they are actually taking their time before they whip out the sentence.

i hope there is some way to detect this to keep more people from using it.

[^$hooter^]

if you would have read the thread you would have known that with or without their demos they were going to be banned. obviously the original demos that were posted were enough to prove them guilty of the offense in question.

Sorry I dont really know about hacks. Im just saying that its pathetic it takes 5 pages and days to complete a ban. Bans should be handed down quickly and not lollygagging around asking for demos. They should have been banned the day the demos are posted and reviewed. This is just hmm how can I put this nicely.... Well I guess I cant... pathetic. The commitee obviously needs to be reviewed or atleast its processing of matters.

[postmortem]

Sorry I dont really know about hacks. Im just saying that its pathetic it takes 5 pages and days to complete a ban. Bans should be handed down quickly and not lollygagging around asking for demos. They should have been banned the day the demos are posted and reviewed. This is just hmm how can I put this nicely.... Well I guess I cant... pathetic. The commitee obviously needs to be reviewed or atleast its processing of matters.

-The committee takes time to think things out. They're also all not sitting at their computers 24/7. What is the problem in that?

-There was no debate about whether or not they were cheating. The demo's posted by CC were darning enough. The only rebuttals came from members of vA. Only they thought it was insufficient.

-Demo's were asked for as they are for most that don't have a detectable hack. Their refusal to post them made everyone more suspicious and drew interest in what they are hiding.

[^$hooter^]

If the demos are good enough to be considered definitive proof of hacking. Then why sit around and have some over the top discussion about it and demand a player incriminate themselves? Why not just put the ban in effect and let them come back when they serve it. Though I totally disagree with the coming back part.

Im not defending nor supporting these two. Im just questioning the process. Seems sloppy...

[vLaD]

A: homing's computer is down for a while no way he could have posted demo while hes moving... B. homing snapping to teamates i looked at demos didn't c him moving mouse more then an inch from player 2 player. c: u condemn 1 of the players and instantly have to condemn the 2nd because he was with him. also iced it pathetic when the only the u talk crap is in forums.. like your opinion counts grow up first get a little wiser then talk. its like Ur  12 year old bro biting  at your ankles its annoying as hell. and the only reason this thread went so long is because the evidence is doubtful and the 64 day ban is not jube quietll because homing didn't have an opportunity.

[iced]

ok so besides homing...y didnt want3d post his? explain that one pal.

[vLaD]

he hasnt been on 4 a while that i dont know and the only reason there is a ban is because they didnt provide demos..... kinda sad

[Fitz]

I matched with Bullet and Homing a lot (over 200 matches); so I know how they used to play.

Bullet tends to line either above or near the person, and the person generally tends to run into his line. It is not usually a direct hit, as in he usually never aimed at the guy, he usually aimed near the guy. This being said, it's pretty easy to dodge his lines once you know what he does and where he aims.

Having watched Bix's demo, the first minute or so on Blitz was normal, but after that... it gets fishy. The constant twitching, and bullet actually aiming on his target is unusual for him. Not to mention his split-second reaction speed... I've never seen that from him.

They were clean when they were in UnderRated. Our entire clan was. But since VA started, I can no longer say who is using what. I'm making no accusations, however, that is not the same Bullet I used to match with.

[Kaos]

i didnt feel like really reading 9 pages about this but if its about him using a old q3 hack for q2 u guys r pretty retarded. ive seen the demos ive seen some fishy and some not so fishy plays in all demos post on the 1st page but u have to think if some r fishy and some arent it could be luck. btw i see how at 1 part of the match he has fast reactions then slow reactions have u guys ever though tim when he had fast he was focusing on the match and trying his best then something happened around him or he did something where he lost focus started to suck then regained focus again

this happens to me when im playing other games

[vLaD]

correction* on previous post meant 2 say its not just

[^$hooter^]

Whats the point in him providing demos. I dont get this part at all. I mean if the ones that are on this thread are conclusive then there is no reason for someone to post demos of themselves. Isnt this like asking the guy that killed someone for them to admit to. I mean obviously hes going to tell you no? I mean what is too stop homing or bullet from sending false demos of themselves with the hacks off. This whole committee thing is working out like a charm.

[coLa]

like i said in the other thread, jitspoe asked from their demos to add their side of the story to all of this. if they were innocent they would have no problem releasing the demos to prove their innocence. it's not like he forced them to show the demos. who cares if he asked for them? he wanted to give them the chance to explain their side. they were already going to be banned for 32 days with or without the demos. but since they were denying it, and didn't post their demos to prove them innocent, the ban time was doubled(atleast this is how i see it).

do you know how demos even work? obviously not. someone more experienced can chime in here, since i don't know how to explain how they actually work. but i do know the concept behind them. demos play off what you have in your paintball directory. there is no way they can send the same demo(map, players, etc...) "with hacks off". we would be able to see the twitching from their view(first person).

i was against the committee from the beginning. but now i can see where it's actually helping. i honestly have very few complaints at the moment.

[^$hooter^]

Yes I understand how demos work. Basically records everything from that players pov. Anyways, There shouldnt been a please submit your other demos, for further investigation. It shouldve been you have definitive proof in this demo posted and 32 day ban. Let them serve it and hopefully they learn. When it comes to hacking the demo should from any person pov should tell the whole story and not just one persons. In your second paragraph you state they cant send a demo "with hacks off".  Are you saying that because it wasnt theirs that its not absolutely positive that they was hacking. Because it the hacks wouldnt be showing on the third party recording the demo. Ill be honest I think with an undetectable hack that "snap aiming" from a third party is lousy evidence. Though Im not on this all knowing committee so whatever. Though if the committee deems a person hacking definitively then they need to slap the ban stick on them. Not have some long drawn out bs party about it. I think congress could work thru this quicker and well thats just sad.

[coLa]

i don't get what you are saying about the "with hacks off" demo thing. the demos posted are from the 3rd person(CC). if they would have posted their demos it would have shown the twitching in 1st person. the demos posted were enough proof to have them banned. this isn't the only thread that has gone on like this. there are a few out there. they were given the chance to plead their case, they refused and were punished accordingly.

what you don't seem to get is that the committee takes the time to review each side of the case. we are unlike other games in the way we handle situations, as you can see. what's the difference between a ban the same day or a ban after a 5 page topic a week later? seems like the offenders have that extra time to get their affects in order before they are strucken with the almighty ban stick. either way they get banned. why worry about how long it takes?

[Rick]

What ive heard is that Homing hasnt been able to reach the internet, therefor not being able to post his demo. Isnt that a lil unfair? Also i agree with $hooter[I think]

[ViciouZ]

Yes I understand how demos work. Basically records everything from that players pov. Anyways, There shouldnt been a please submit your other demos, for further investigation. It shouldve been you have definitive proof in this demo posted and 32 day ban. Let them serve it and hopefully they learn. When it comes to hacking the demo should from any person pov should tell the whole story and not just one persons. In your second paragraph you state they cant send a demo "with hacks off".  Are you saying that because it wasnt theirs that its not absolutely positive that they was hacking. Because it the hacks wouldnt be showing on the third party recording the demo. Ill be honest I think with an undetectable hack that "snap aiming" from a third party is lousy evidence. Though Im not on this all knowing committee so whatever. Though if the committee deems a person hacking definitively then they need to slap the ban stick on them. Not have some long drawn out bs party about it. I think congress could work thru this quicker and well thats just sad.

They were asked to submit their demos from that match with CC, since that is where the accused hacking took place. So if they were hacking, it would show through.

Also, it WOULD show on the third party demo - the aim of the player is sent to the server, so whatever is happening with their aim on their PC is visible on the server and therefore on somebody elses demo of them.

Now learn.

[i_am_a_pirate]

Have they given them the demo? Cos if they're saying that they didnt do anything wrong, then why not submit it?!? If they did then what are we arguing, ban them!

[eXitus]

They are already banned

[Justinph5]

I don't see why ya'll complain that his computer is not working.... Homing had a lot of time before to give his demo... He even had the time to post a stupid upload of W4de, so don't complain that he can't know, cuz he could have before, and never did...

Even so with his teammates complaining of innocence, I don't see them posting their demos, since they could have spec'd the whole round...