Author Topic: matchmode why not?  (Read 1994 times)

davew1

  • PGP
  • Posts: 24
matchmode why not?
« on: December 25, 2005, 03:50:00 PM »
We went to scrim last night i passed the server
and set match mode.

WOW what a mess that seems to have caused

Why do you all not want to use it?

ff on
and no spec

This is common in almost every other game out there for scrims and  matches..
you do not spec the  other team this is common sense..

Freiendly fire  makes sense also


Just wondering why teams dont seem to want to use this feature??


I've played in cal for cod cod uo and  will be for cod 2
and these are common things for  matches and scrims

Jit maybe you can shed some light on why you wasted time coding this in if they wont use it?


i can leave you with this
if this was cod  and you pulled that crap youd get laffed off the server and banned



digi

  • 68 Carbine
  • Posts: 343
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2005, 05:08:18 PM »
How can you even compare cod to DP?
....

XtremeBain

  • Developer
  • Autococker
  • Posts: 1470
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2005, 05:18:09 PM »
People don't accept change that well around here.

Now I'm not sure if it had been the strict set of match rules that was applied to the server, but in either case I'd like to talk about them anyway.  jitspoe's strict rules go something like:
- No opponent chasecam
- Observer blackout
- No respawn
- All team's flags must be in base to cap
- Flag capture ends round
- Friendly fire

eR33t had a game recently with eXT with these rules.  Overall it wasn't too bad, but there are problems.  I enjoy the observer blackout (just be nice and specinvite your obs teammates so they don't get bored to death).  The inability to chasecam your opponents is great because it allows for more strategic play.  Although these two things are good, they are heavily outweighed by the other rules.

The behavior of the flags is a major problem when playing in strict mode.
I think that flagsmustbehome is a great CTF setting in at least one of the following conditions: a) quick respawns after death b) there are a large number of players(and respawns are possible) like 6v6+ c) a round timelimit is in place

However current match conditions are typically 3v3-4v4 on small or large maps.  On small maps, respawns don't usually happen unless there's a couple really tight players going head to head.  On large maps there is too much space that needs to be covered to assign 1-2 players on flag defense with only 3-4 players on each team.

Small maps don't see the impact so much because the rounds are fast, grabs don't occur very often, caps are rare.  The biggest problem is ffire because the map is typically comfortable for 1v1 play at best, but sees action of up to 5v5.

On larger maps, once the opponent has any of your flags they can begin to hide without much fear for their cover to be blown. This opens a whole new skill of who can hide the longest, which then if there are 60s respawns opens the door to a 2+ player strategy called who can hide while their teammate spawn kills the longest.  For the lone flag carrier on his team to eliminate the spawn killer is rather difficult given the nature of most spawns and unless you're successfully counter spawn killing, you're soon going to face a 1v3-4 situation.  But if respawns are disabled, this sets up the very very long rounds while both flag carriers are hiding from each other.

I believe that jitspoe has made the changes to see if it brings a different edge to the current state of competition.  If I were to suggest anything for match server settings it would be to enable observer blackout, and locked chase cams.  If the mindset of clans change and they being to selecting large maps everytime, then ffire is possible.  The flag behavior must be left alone for 2+ flag maps.  Flagcapendsround is suitable for single flag maps (through use of an .ent file) but otherwise I believe that the flag options should both be disabled.  The hybrid ctf mode that jitspoe has created for experimentation could allow for respawns to be disabled, however it would best be coupled with a timelimit on rounds which isn't something I'd like to see implemented, so that leaves it more or less out of the question.

Feel free to flame away; Happy Holidays!

davew1

  • PGP
  • Posts: 24
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2005, 05:23:35 PM »
i agree

spec blackout and ff on seems logical

and as  for change?
if i recall we did have match mode with at least those 2 settings back "in the day"



XtremeBain

  • Developer
  • Autococker
  • Posts: 1470
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2005, 05:30:32 PM »
Maybe so, but I think it's safe to say that 80% of matching occurs on servers with the "generally accepted" settings and without using the match mode (since all admins/scripts had to do was change the server password and supply it to players).

jitspoe

  • Administrator
  • Autococker
  • Posts: 18802
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2005, 11:14:53 PM »
Did I send you the latest version?  If so, create a "matchmode.cfg" and "publicmode.cfg" in your configs dir and put all the settings you want for each in them.  The reason for this is so you can have different settings public mode and match mode on the same server.  You don't want things like autojoin and map voting in matches, and you (usually) don't want friendly fire in public mode.  If you have multiple servers with different settings, you can specify the config file with matchmode_cfg and publicmode_cfg.

Sorry for the lack of documentation, but this is still a work in progress.

Actually, now that I read this thread again, I realize I misread it, but the above info should be useful anyway.  On the subject of the "strict" settings, I know it can be frustrating when I'm testing out new ideas, but just bear with me.  I'm trying to find ways to make the game more interesting, balanced, and team oriented.  Obviously it's not perfect yet, but I think we can figure out something that works well eventually.

As for why people don't like things like ffire, I think it has to do a lot with clans simply being a group of individuals rather than a team.  It's a lot easier to just play on a 1-path map and spray at the enemy, who's always in front of you, without having to think than it is to plan out actual game strategies and communicate so you have effective offense and defense whilst timing things such that you don't eliminate your own teammates.

nXe

  • Stingray
  • Posts: 94
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2005, 12:08:42 AM »
I agree.  I'd like to turn on ff and nooppoentspec.

In Public Servers ->

Who cares, newbies join and will most likely abuse ff and piss just about everyone off.  Therefore, keep pubs ff off.  Plus there is almost no teamwork through pub play; I know just about anyone who has played a multiplayer FPS before would agree.  I pub to work on certain skills; skills that don't require match play in order to improve.

In Matches ->

Please, please turn ff on and restrict opposing chasecam.  Please; I'm almost begging you.  I think it's a brilliant feature.  Not only is it the industry standard, as davew has laid out clearly, but it also emphasizes teamwork and overall suggests more logical, brain-usage during play.  PLEASE PLEASE implement these features (more like restrictions) AND USE THEM.  Make em the dp matching standards as they allready are... enforce em is more what im begging.

Brilliant topic, brilliant features, brilliant development.

davew1

  • PGP
  • Posts: 24
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2005, 04:56:33 AM »
How can you even compare cod to DP?
....

I was using cod as 1 example
that I have experience in is all
but yes its pretty much standard in ANY GAMING LEAGUE

Jit: the latest version and some doccumentation would be fine..
if you can send me a link in via a pm here with the info

the issue:
getting ALL server admins to start using the features again for matches, scrims
probaly won't happen

as far as teamwork i have been out of it to long to make any comments on that issue. but if there was decent teamwork and teams practiced together a bit im sure these above settings would not even be an issue

maybe we can just make a list of teams that are willing to use matchmode?
then the more serious teams would just scrim and match those teams
I think that would solve the issues then and there

digi

  • 68 Carbine
  • Posts: 343
Re: matchmode why not?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2005, 02:37:15 PM »
Flag must be at base = ruins matching.

Period.