Who did you vote for?

[Zorchenhimer]

* Zorchenhimer heads off to Home Depot to pick up a crowbar.

[Fullmetal_Steeb]

The gun show is this weekend and I'm making a HUGE investment as the Messiah has made it quite clear he is against the 2nd amendment.  It will be interesting to  see how bad the price of firearms go up now.

I think I might be the only person who remembers Obama's speech where he says, quite clearly, that he ISN'T against the second amendment, and DOESN'T want to take away firearms or the right to use said firearms. Or maybe Republicans just aren't willing to admit that the evil liberals might not be as controlling as Bush makes them out to be.

Also, I've been waiting for a chance to get at this socialism thing. First off, how many people do you know that actually KNOW what socialism is, other than the usual comparisons to all-out communism? Being that almost no Republicans actually know the definition of socialism, I'm really surprised that they throw the word around so much.
Second, do you actually think that Obama wants to completely redistrubute all wealth in America equally, take billions of dollars from rich Americans and give it to poorer citizens, and outlaw all capitolism? No. At the very most, there will be a slight tax increase for people who are making over a quarter of a million dollars. People who are making that much aren't going to miss $1500 a year that much. We're talking about people who buy cars and homes for fun.
Thirdly, considering that at least probably a third of Republicans are poor and/or uneducated, if they actually knew what socialism WAS, you would think they would be jumping at the chance to have free money thrown to them. Once again, they have no clue what socialism is, they just know that it's associated with communism, which is "bad" (as for why, I can't explain that).

Obama is not socialist.

[KnacK]

From http://www.ontheissues.org/Gun_Control.htm

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

You sure do assume a lot about Republicans, but that's ok. It's expected.

BTW - get your facts straight. It started at $250,000.00.  The last quote from the Obama camp was $150000.00 according to his VP. see here: http://www.nypost.com/seven/10292008/news/politics/biden_blows_fuzzy_tax_math_135787.htm

[Fitz]

From http://www.ontheissues.org/Gun_Control.htm

You sure do assume a lot about Republicans, but that's ok. It's expected.

BTW - get your facts straight. It started at $250,000.00.  The last quote from the Obama camp was $150000.00 according to his VP. see here: http://www.nypost.com/seven/10292008/news/politics/biden_blows_fuzzy_tax_math_135787.htm

Did you actually spend time to read that list which you quoted? Where does it say he wants to ban all guns? As far as I'm concerned, there is no need for people to own semi-automatic (which can be converted to fully automatic quite easily) assault rifles. Furthermore, a handgun ban in major cities would most likely lead to less murders, crime, etc. As it is, you can currently buy something like 21 handguns in Philadelphia without question. Is that ethical? Does one individual need 21 different handguns?

As for the taxes, get YOUR facts from reliable sources (in other words, get YOUR facts straight)
http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

[KnacK]

If you ban handguns, only criminals will have them. That's a fact. Check the crime rate in DC.
Check the crime rate in which assault style weapons were used.  Other than a few high profile cases, most are very common rifles and handguns.
Converting a rifle to full auto is not as easy as you portray it. Can it be done? yes. Is it easy? No. That's from a gun smith.
By banning semi-automatic weapons, the only thing left are revolvers and bolt-action rifles.  Not much there compared to all semi-auto weapons.
As far as owning 21 handguns ethical, what's unethical about it? Some people collect coins, some collect pr0n, some collect guns. Non-issue.

As far as taxes, when Biden said that, he said that as a representative of Obama.

I think we can agree to disagree on these points. BUt everything that I have posted ( including the NYT article) are facts.

[Fitz]

If you ban handguns, only criminals will have them. That's a fact. Check the crime rate in DC.
Check the crime rate in which assault style weapons were used.  Other than a few high profile cases, most are very common rifles and handguns.
Converting a rifle to full auto is not as easy as you portray it. Can it be done? yes. Is it easy? No. That's from a gun smith.
By banning semi-automatic weapons, the only thing left are revolvers and bolt-action rifles.  Not much there compared to all semi-auto weapons.
As far as owning 21 handguns ethical, what's unethical about it? Some people collect coins, some collect pr0n, some collect guns. Non-issue.

As far as taxes, when Biden said that, he said that as a representative of Obama.

I think we can agree to disagree on these points. BUt everything that I have posted ( including the NYT article) are facts.

It is true that we will disagree on certain points, but just let it be known that Obama does not want to (nor can he constitutionally) completely abolish the right to bear arms. You will always be able to own your .50cal sniper rifle to shoot down those terrorist airplanes that are about to fly into your house

As for the article, yes it's true, but the first thing it states is that it is a gaffe - a mistake made by Biden. Again, Obama's tax plan is online (http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf) and as of right now there is no evidence to suggest that it is different otherwise.

If you would like to make a case as to whether or not he will actually PRESENT that budget plan to congress next year, then you do have a valid point. In all likelihood he will present that budget, but things could be switched and changed to suit his sponsors' demands (Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and Merriyl Lynch are his top sponsors... taxing them would only piss them off). Again, we're going on his word, but in all sincerity, most people will stop caring by next year...

[KnacK]

It will be interesting to see what he actually puts out there on the plate.

Personally, the thing that really grates me about Obama was the whole "sharing the pie" bit.

But I have a lot of patience.

What I REALLY hope the Dems don't pass is the new legislation nationalizing 401k accounts. This would be my #1 worry above all.

[Eiii]

Obama - can be compared to Breen - wants to create a second constitution and revise how the country operates and turn it into a socialist country, like Breen controlling the world from the Citadel. Obama wants to create some sort of child defense regime where he takes the youth of the country and uses them for our military defense, against what? Ourselves? - which is like the Combine, and humans being taken to work for their will - Those who defy this new form of government will eventually lose t and go all out against it - as the Rebels are trying to bring a downfall to the Combine control -

You're scary. 'Second Constitution'? 'Socialist Country'? I'd love to see your definition of socialism, to be honest.

[S8NSSON]

Fair Tax

[Eiii]

And the harm in that is...?

[lekky]

Can't vote obviously as I'm English, but I would have voted for Obama. McCain was too close to Bush, and to be honest I think he's too old, and didn't give me any indication as to his suitability for presidancy. I mean yes, you served however long in a Viet prison, but so what.. He's too old, and the thought of Palin anywhere near the White House is just scary (She comes across as an idiot for want of better term).

[PiCaSSo]

why do you have to call him that?

I didn't "have" too, I chose too. A right (freedom of speech), that may very well diminish with our new president elect. I meant it more as a humor statement anyway.

[PiCaSSo]

Ahe, given the number of people who aren't old enough, this should have been who would you vote for.

EDIT: And to offset Picasso: Obama, because there are a mountain of reasons NOT to choose a corrupt, incompetent secessionist.

In what way was McCain "corrupt"?

Living in Georgia I can tell you straight up that a lot of black people voted for Obama just because he's black, period. Without regard to his experience or policies what so ever. Brilliant!

Same thing I've been hearing around here...

[Eiii]

In what way was McCain "corrupt"?

Oh, I was talking about Palin.

I know of several black people that seem more excited about Obama's race over anything else. It's a shame, I agree. But you can't honestly say that the other side didn't have a significant population voting based off of misinformation, rather than a lack of information.

Lekky:
McCain has a looong history as a senator, and he's certainly very competent-- if his campaign had reflected that, I would be much happier with his prospective presidency.

[PiCaSSo]

Oh, I was talking about Palin.

I'll ask the same question about her then.

I know of several black people that seem more excited about Obama's race over anything else. It's a shame, I agree. But you can't honestly say that the other side didn't have a significant population voting based off of misinformation, rather than a lack of information.

I'd say thank you to the MEDIA and the laziness of the average American voter to research what they see before making a choice to vote.  A mis-informed voter is as bad as those who don't vote at all.

Lekky:
McCain has a looong history as a senator, and he's certainly very competent-- if his campaign had reflected that, I would be much happier with his prospective presidency.

Gotta agree in respect to his campaign.  I felt it was quiet lacking as well.  Obama spent much more money on advertisement/television spots.  He did a very good job of reaching people through many sources.

[Fullmetal_Steeb]

... A right (freedom of speech), that may very well diminish with our new president elect ...

You do know that Democrats support civil rights MUCH more than Republicans, right? The only constitutional right reds fight for is having their guns. Get your parties straight.

[Eiii]

I'll ask the same question about her then.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jOTk11gvqDAgD0cY3i4WjI_2YOxwD93PJCT00
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jwb6ekOiK0T9yFvw_WURcrdPI65QD93V4AJ82

Less than respectable, on both counts.

[PiCaSSo]

You do know that Democrats support civil rights MUCH more than Republicans, right? The only constitutional right reds fight for is having their guns. Get your parties straight.

You've obviously been watching too many extremely lefty liberal TV channels.  I'm sure Biden was thinking about "freedom of speech" when instead of responding to a legitimate question from a lady from a local news station in Florida he made the statement "are you joking", never answered the question then the Obama liberals abolished any future interviews with that news channel. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1148272/orlando_tv_station_punished_for_joe.html

Then what say you to the fact that three reporters were kicked off of Obama's plane?  http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-ticket2-2008nov02,0,2691635.story.

Rather than civil responses they resort to these tactics?

I never referred to anyone's affiliation  or who does or does not support civil rights so get your response straight chump.

I am only referring to the fact that if the Obama camp doesn't like the question or a person's opinion, they resort to a coward's way out rather than a simple civil response.  Do you think "Joe the Plumber" was a Republican created conspiracy too?  Pfft!

I have no doubt that after Obama's first 4 year term is up that EVERYTHING that is screwed up in this country will still be blamed on George Bush...  Hopefully I'll be wrong but if you think things are bad now, let's see your response 4 years from now.  Oh, I forgot.... It will be the Republican's fault even though we have had a majority Democratic Congress 2 years prior to the election and now we have a complete Democratic US of A government with lil ole pres too.

[Eiii]

There's poor practices on both sides; both were running to win.

[PiCaSSo]

There's poor practices on both sides; both were running to win.

OOOOooo  Eiiii you said it all before I had a chance to respond to your response to the Palin discrepancies.  I'll respond anyway...  Are you so naive that you can't understand or believe that there is some form of isolated trash that can be drudged up on the majority of ANYONE in a political position or that political officials don't find some way to include their own family in special events.  "Less than respectable" to include your family or want them there? 

If the things one does affects an isolated few, it's one thing but what I'm concerned about are the things one does that has or may affect an entire country.