Lock the whole discussion.

[mewa]

Further proof of my post. It just occurred to me that half (count it, 1 out of 2) of the threads on the forums front page are locked.

fascism becoming popular? mmmm.....

[DrRickDaglessMD]

And how many of those threads have valid reasons to be locked? practically all of them, I'd say. Which is much more indicative of the general low standard of behavior and quality of posts generated by most of this community.

Like the arguments against the prohibition of drugs stating that related crimes would go down if narcotics were legalised, I don't believe such a thing would generally lead to a pro-social change. I think the forum would further degenerate without the moderators help, I'm already sick of 'is DP dying' type threads and 'LOLOL SPEEDBALL RULEZ DA CLAN SEEN IZ DED!' 'discussions', why invite endless more - only this time without any repercussions!

There are those who often contribute meaningfully and pro-socially (if not always positively) to these forums, why make their lives even harder by having pages and pages of childish flame wars over clan memberships, match forfeitures, accusations of hacking, questions about where to find hacks, and the most popular - weird esoteric personal insults. There's a place for almost all these things to be dealt with properly, yet time after time we see threads like:

http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=14807.0
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=1320.0
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=13578.0

...which may or may not have had valid reasons for existing, but always degenerated into inanity and deserve to be locked.

Also, if you want to make a genuine change, might I suggest you'd be more likely to succeed if you didn't repeatedly issue your beliefs in an arrogant and confrontational manner? It wasn't so long ago that you called for a discussion between us about the Mac poll to be locked because it was 'getting out of hand', even though it was you who had gotten the wrong end of the stick. Please don't be a back seat moderator and call into question the mods integrity only when it doesn't suit your beliefs.

I don't want another flame war with you, so I'd suggest you make any reply go some way to placating Knack and y00tz if you want to see any changes at all.

- Dagless M.D

[Eiii]

Locking has picked up, but so have crappy threads. I just wish the locker would post a quick message at the end of the thread so we could tell who locked it, at least.

[Dirty_Taco]

Flame wars were half the reason I used to enjoy coming on the forums. Watching people get all raged out and mistype every word in caps is funny in my opinion.

I look at some of my old posts and can't believe how seriously I took this game.

[flip]

Flame wars were half the reason I used to enjoy coming on the forums. Watching people get all raged out and mistype every word in caps is funny in my opinion.

I look at some of my old posts and can't believe how seriously I took this game.

Good reply. I feel the same. It makes the things I go through each day seem a little less harsh after I read some of these peoples issues.

[mewa]

Nice, flip. We definitely seem to have more than our share of toolbags in this crew.

Good doctor....when I asked for the thread to be locked it was sarcastic commentary on the nature of administration around here. I realize sarcasm doesn't transpose well over the internet, so here I am spelling it out for you.

To be honest, I can think of very few times when an entire discussion would have to be stopped permanently because of derogatory comments. In the real world most people deal with insults constantly. I'm sure most can do the same here. If you/admins really feel that we are incapable of handling a comment, then simply warn/ban the person from the forum. To have to end the discussion is absurd, and will only fester animosity.

It's been shown that societies will constantly fail under oppression. There's a time and place for some regulation, but no need to have micromanagers monitoring every insignificant moment. Let the free speech continue and worry about some bigger issues.

[Justinph5]

my logic is... this isn't the real world. if they don't want it, they dont have to take it.

[Eiii]

In the real world most people deal with insults constantly. I'm sure most can do the same here.

I don't know what world you live in, but I pity you for living in it.

[flip]

It's sort of like society. When there is a bad person we send them to a neat little place that has four walls, surrounded by razor wire, with people on each corner with guns, and we forget about them for awhile. People will make the obvious comment... "but this is just a forum, not some murderer." Here is how to best look at the situation. This is a public forum. Public is the keyword. If someone can not keep their emotions under control just slap them with the obvious week vacation. Let the people who are civil keep the conversation going. We punish the  person in the wrong, not everyone. If the thread is a pointless topic, it is up to the community as to whether or not they want to continue. I guess my age is showing. I don't understand the need for abusive writing/screaming in public. Regardless where I am at, if there is someone being verbally abusive to someone in public then I normally confront the individual and tell them to be quiet. This does have the obvious side effects and requires a few doctor visits sometimes but if it teaches some that there is consequences for this crap they pull then it is well worth it. So the question we have is... Why punish all of us?

[DrRickDaglessMD]

I don't know what world you live in, but I pity you for living in it.

I couldn't agree more, I know that I don't spend my time being constantly insulted - and if I did, I'd make sure I wasn't part of that community any more. No-one here should feel they have to leave because they don't want to take abuse on these forums.

So you suggest we ban all the obnoxious people on this forum? I wouldn't count on there being many active members left! And this doesn't solve the problem of pages and pages of clutter and junk in otherwise good discussions. Good ideas and furtive soil for discussion aren't being quashed, endless threads about implementing sniper and shotgun paintball markers and counterstrike style XP systems are. Who needs more of them? no-one. But do the thread starters/contributers deserve bans? No, I don't think so.

People just need to think about their posts more, it doesn't take much to be constructive. I don't think Mewa is even talking about people going mental and flaming or whatever, I think it's more that reasonable threads are being closed a lot - to which I say that it's not that free-speech is being supressed, but idiotic/offtopic speech.

- Dag

[KnacK]

Thank you Dag, I could not have said it better.

[Bix]

most of the flaming is truth, which leads to locked threads.

[mewa]

First off, let me say that "constant insults" was a wrong choice of words. The point I meant to get across was that our world of free speech is based around the notion that although one's opinion is different than yours, it is still valid. It is allowed to stand based on that alone. Just because you think it's idiotic doesn't mean everyone does. If there is no interest in the persons idea, there will be little response and it dies on it's own. In no way does an idiotic thread require an administrators intervention.

I think it's more that reasonable threads are being closed a lot - to which I say that it's not that free speech is being suppressed, but idiotic/offtopic speech.

I'm not even sure this statement makes any sense. It seems like you agree with me (which I know by now can't be true), yet you still seem to think locking a discussion because of an individuals post is worthwhile. This is the key concept I am writing about. If there is offtopic post's, move them to a new discussion. If there is an individual creating "havoc" which is too offensive to your sensitive ears, then give the user a temporary forum ban. Locking the discussion is such a blanket move that end's (<--make a note of that crucial word) all further ideas, instead of actually fixing the issue.

If we were all in a room discussing some issue (regardless of how worthy you consider the topic) and one person kept interupting shouting obscenities like someone with tourette's, the meeting would not be called off and dismissed. Most likely the individual would be warned and then excused (or otherwise punished). The discussion would continue unaltered despite the momentary interruption. Choosing to end the gathering is ridiculous and will undermine any future discussion.

[DrRickDaglessMD]

I'm afraid your idealistic views have coloured your expectations of this forum (and from the sounds of it any other forum you might happen to use). Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that does not mean everyones opinion is important. I could have an opinion on lots of things, but no-one would care what they are if they aren't informed opinions. This is why some people prefer broadsheet newspapers and journals, and some prefer tabloids and copies of Viz. We don't have 'sensitive ears', we're just adults - adults don't spend much time being insulted in discussions, you leave that in the playground.

And thats what we're dealing with. This forum (like most) is intended to be helpful and of reasonable quality in terms of finding and contributing information about this mod. This means sorting the wheat from the chaff. If you want an anarchist regime, go and hang around on 4chan. As it is, discussions (however well intentioned initially) are very often just swamped with uninformed opinons (to put it mildly) to the point where the 'discussion' is so far off topic, it's not worth a moderators time pruning and banning. Locking is just the simplest and most effective course of action.

Take this thread for instance: Ways to make DP clan scene grow?

An important topic which warrants discussion.

Almost immediately, Olbaid pops up and makes a personal insult. Now, out of 19 replies to that thread on the first page, count how many of them are constructive and on-topic - I count 4, maybe 5 cogent and contructive posts. Now count how many of them are personal snipes or clan trash talk. Even bix, the thread starter, who posted in this thread with another inanity just before you, decides that by the end of the discussion its gotten out of hand, and seemingly locks the thread.

Don't blame the moderators for the patrons of this forum's behaviour forcing their hand.

And to clarify the point you quoted, I stated that I believed your intended point was about threads being closed a lot lately, not about threads being locked due to any 'individual creating "havoc"' as flip appeared to believe. Then I said that as far as that point is concerned, I disagreed with it.

Also, don't insinuate that I'm contesting you on this point just because it happens to be you. I simply think you are wrong in this instance and that the mods deserve some respect for the work they do.

- Dag

[flip]

I respect the mods highly. It is no doubt a difficult job. As far as banning people..... No. I do NOT think you should just ban someone over a comment. I do think, however, when it is the same constant person or persons that want to snipe at each other than maybe a warning or two is warranted. Then on possibly a third offense make them take a break. It doesn't have to be long. When your dog has a bowel movement on your carpet do you just let it go? Do you kill the dog? No. You swat it's nose and then after it has had a chance to cool down you nurture it. It does seem to me that the same people keep making useless threads or always make the same rude comments. If it doesn't happen then forgive me for having an opinion. Humans are creatures of habit. If they are social and are used to participating in something they will eventually return if taken away. To say that if someone was banned for a few days and would get so hurt they wouldn't return is absurd in my opinion. If that was the case then we wouldn't have anyone playing this game. This thread is a prime example of how many should and could be if they are allowed to go on if the obnoxious people are reprimanded.

[mewa]

Let me guess flip, your dog took a excrement on the rug just before you posted.

Dagless, this thread is the result of the respect I have for the mods. If I didn't have any left at all, I would simply run around talking excrement about them. This is the most direct way to approach all who use this forum. If it is too difficult or just too much work for some moderators to "prune" or actually attack the problem at it's source, maybe they are the ones who are inadequete. I'm sorry if I'm too ignorant to see why it's so much harder to warn/ban a user versus locking the discussion. It's appaling how many decent threads I've run across which are now locked for inane reasons. Just meddling deal with the babble and let the real talk go on.

[gonass]

You'd think people known to abuse power wouldn't get power 'round these parts but look at the dp committee.