Author Topic: Need Networking Lab Ideas.  (Read 5002 times)

eMo

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Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« on: January 29, 2009, 12:08:28 PM »
Hey guys, I was wondering if any of you had suggestions for labs that my teacher could use to not make my Data Communications: L.A.N course not so dry. We are Term 2 Computer Systems Analysts and have a pretty good grasp on the OS layers on the Windows platform.

We cover:

Network Standards
IP Addressing
Transmission Basics
Network Protocols
Subnetting
Networking Hardware
Networking Security

He's just looking for ideas to demonstrait these technologies and if any of you have ideas on how to do so I will gladly pass them along to him to make my learning experience not so not so talk and learn from Powerpoints.

Thanks,

KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2009, 12:11:28 PM »
get a few 2600 series running ios12.3 or better (check memory requiements).  @600 series can be had on eBay for cheap.

Get a few T1 WIC cards, a T1 crossover cable ( you can make that)

Get a few cisco switches running ios so you can do VLAN testing.

This should get you started.

I've got a lab here at work that is segregated from teh rest of the network that I make all my changes on a tests on before I move it over to production.

WOrks great.

eBay is your friend for used cisco gear.

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 10:51:37 AM »
Great suggestions from Knack there, with that kit you could definately make some headway with the concepts you learn on the CCNA (your school probably won't shell out for your class to do the actual certification though, I know mine didn't!). You could do allsorts with it, I can think of a few ideas off the top of my head to show some basic hands-on demonstrations of how networks work and behave.

Network Standards:
 - Knacks suggestion of using home-made crossover cables for your mediums is a good one as with the onboard ethernet ports and the T1 cards, you could show how the different standards use different pin-outs and the same RJ-45 connector (but how the principles are the same/similar). Also how crossover cables differ from straight through and why, and how most modern networking hardware autodetects the cable configuration.
 - Even cooler if you guys could get taught how to make the cables up yourselves, it's a pretty useful skill to have, even for non-networkers!
 - If you can get some E1/T1 Co-Axial/BNC cables, you can see how cat5e cables and wireless didn't always rule the LAN world.

IP Addressing:
 - A lot of this is theory, but with some hardware to play with you could do things like set up 2 machines with no DHCP (linux is really cool to do this on as you get to see whats actually happening) and manually configure the network adapters statically (with IP's and Subnet Masks which you and your class have worked out beforehand. All you need for this is a switch or hub and the machines I imagine you already have - plug them all into your hub/switch and pair up with someone else in the room, figure out your IP address and subnetting scheme (not classful, use VLSM because it's way more interesting) between yourselves and configure the machines, and see if you can ping each other.
 - Variable Length Subnet Masking can be a bit scary at first, but it's quite simple as long as you think about it the right way - and it's a strong skill to have when going into networks! This might be a bit dry for you though.

Transmission Basics
 - I guess by this you mean looking at signals and stuff, this is kind of hard to demonstrate without scientific equipment like oscilloscopes and stuff. This one will probably have to stay on the chalkboard, I'm afraid. Having said that, I learned a good few lessons about how fibre-optics work by just working on them, but I imagine this will be WAY too expensive.

Network Protocols
 - Again, this is a bit tricky to clearly demonstrate physically, but you could do things like a little set up to just send pings and traceroutes constantly (programs like the free WinMTR: http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/ let you do extended traceroutes and pings with a nice GUI) and have your teacher explain how those 2 commands work, i.e. the ICMP protocol, to show how important information like Round Trip Time etc... is used. If you had something like the SmartBits traffic generator boxes (expensive) you could show how packets are formed and even how things like WRED work, but that's probably a bit too indepth.

Subnetting
 - This is basically just part of the IP Addressing one, you'd demonstrate it at the same time. What you might want to do is set up a simple routing protocol like RIP up on the 2 2600's to show how connected network information is shared around the network, and why subnetting is very important to this.

Networking Hardware
 - Understanding the roles of each type of networking gear is pretty easy when it's all laid out infront of you, I can't think of a better way than to set up some of the CCNA lab type experiments with the gear Knack suggested.

Networking Security
 - This could be a bit expensive to show with dedicated hardware, and I'm pretty sure a PIX firewall or whatever is way overkill. What you could do though, is show how you can use Access Lists to control user access and network access on specific ports, etc...
 - NAT is an important thing to think about when you're talking security, so an explaination/demonstration of how that works and how it helps protect you from outside threats would be cool.

I can't really think of much else, if your teachers don't respond too well to 'buy a load of cisco kit', I'm sure we can come up with some cheaper (but not nearly as good!) options.

- Dag

KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2009, 02:01:38 PM »
..plus Dag and I will be here if you need any help.

eMo

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2009, 02:22:18 PM »
The problem is that it's a relatively new class being offered to the Systems Analyst so they really don't have any equipment for it yet. We'd obviously love to have a separate lab disconnected from the network to test switches but it really just boils down to getting these ideas through to all the appropriate staff members, coordinators and whoever is higher.

Last class he did some simple stuff with the cmd prompt in windows like netstat -na to explain ip addressing.

I really appreciate all you're ideas and I'll definitely be passing them along to him!


KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2009, 02:30:42 PM »
Well if you cant get hardware, how about a free simulator?

http://www.ipflow.utc.fr/index.php/Cisco_7200_Simulator

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2009, 05:13:09 PM »
Good link, that emulator is pretty good (although it might be a bit complicated for you guys to get running, I had a bit of a nightmare with it - in the end I gave up, I had about 20 7206VXR's with NPE-G2's to play with downstairs in the lab). Also I think you need a relevant IOS image for it, which at the time I tested it was easy to get hold of for me - if you don't have a CCO account with Cisco, you might have trouble.

I understand getting funding and stuff for things like this in education can be ropey, but the kit Knack suggested is pretty cheap for its equivalent teaching value in the classroom, honestly. Then again, getting funds out of faculties can be like blood from a stone, in the 4 years I studied it, they only just got in nice new equipment a month before I graduated!

for reference, this is the kind of router you'd be looking for: here

Which is cheaper for 2 than a lot of home broadband routers!

I'm presuming here that you do have I.T. facilities available to you - if you don't have a dedicated networking lab, I would at least propose that 2 or so PC's are given a second ethernet card each, with which to use any switches/hubs/routers with. This way the techs won't be annoyed you're just unplugging computers from the school network willy-nilly, and you can run a virtual machine like VMWare and boot Linux distributions in that, using the second adapter in your experiments (the techs would probably be a bit annoyed you were booting different OS's on the machines natively too!). This is how we did a lot of networking practicals because we could just install Windows Server and stuff onto a virtual machine and play with all the features in a safe environment.

I guess there's no way you can get around spending at least a little money, although if you use things like VMWare 60-day trials and stuff, perhaps you can get what you need out of trial versions (education/business licenses for this kind of software can be very expensive, I'll speak to my friend who is pretty knowledgeable on virtual machines to see if he knows any similar free/cheap alternatives).

You can demonstrate a lot of networking stuff with command prompt applications. eg, use commands like 'route PRINT' to see your local machine's routing table. Pretty useful when explaining concepts like default gateways, loopbacks, subnet masks and routing metrics!

It occured to me that i'd forgotten to mention a really valuable (and free) tool - a packet sniffer! Wireshark is a free and very powerful packet analyser, I can't think of a better way to show things like ARP messages, TCP/IP 3-way handshakes, error handling and ICMP messages. The way the packets are broken down by field and lets you examine the payload is a VERY effective demo of how protocols work. Especially when you can do fun things like fire up MSN and read the messages straight out of the packets or load up DP and look at how the global login's challenge-response handshake works. Get it here.

If your guy would prefer it if you could give him some more definate suggestions and prices (so he has something to take to his boss), with explainations and reasoning, I'm sure Knack and myself would be more than happy to help you compile that for him. I think it's great that networking itself is becoming a much more accessible route earlier in education - I'd never even seen any Cisco kit until University!

- Dag
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 05:34:19 PM by DrRickDaglessMD »

eMo

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 04:49:18 PM »
I understand getting funding and stuff for things like this in education can be ropey, but the kit Knack suggested is pretty cheap for its equivalent teaching value in the classroom, honestly. Then again, getting funds out of faculties can be like blood from a stone, in the 4 years I studied it, they only just got in nice new equipment a month before I graduated!

Sounds like this is going to be the same with me. He told me to thank you for you're guys suggestions and help. He's currently working on getting cisco switches, he also found that simulator interesting and told me about another one called gnu or gms or something. Today we wired our own cat5e cable and cross over, so he is trying his best to make it less dry.

I'll keep you guys updated.

KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 05:08:33 PM »
Let us know how we can help.

*on edit*

What study guides are you using in class for CCNA?
* KnacK has an idea

eMo

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 10:01:48 PM »
Just got a posting from him and thought I'd share it.

Quote
Hi Mike,

Thanks again for your suggestions.  I did mention two weeks ago about
possibly using Wireshark to sniff the data being transmitted to use as a
demonstration tool.  I had to re-think that concept simply because that
is significantly more complicated to fully grasp what is actually going
on when you consider that the majority in the class doesn't grasp the
basics to begin with.  If I were to do a demo, I think that I would be
fielding more questions then providing answers.

I might still incorporate it, but will probably wait; if I change my
mind then I might do it next class because I was thinking of using the
virtual environment.

Also, the link you provided about the Cisco simulator has been improved
drastically from the command line (Dynagen using dynamips) with a better
front end called GNS3.  It still uses dynamips as the back end, but
gives you a more then adequate GUI that can run in Windows, Linux and OSX.

www.gns3.net

Bob


I'll ask him about the study guide when I see him on thursday.

eMo

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2009, 05:46:19 PM »
So I'm applying for a placement and to apply i need to fill out a series of questions and what not. I came across one that I really couldn't solve.

I have:
10 desktop machines on XP
4 desktop machines on Linux
3 laptops that are wireless only
2 file servers: Web server, File server
1 wireless AP
Need switches to accommodate the MGMT and Developers sections + have enough expansion room for 5 more machines.

My question  is, I need to have 1 managed switch that's at the core. I need make/model of said switch and must place it in the correct level of topology. I really haven't learned anything about switches yet....

Any help would be appreciated.

KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2009, 05:52:29 PM »
A 24 port switch will do it but leave you 1 short for expansion.  That leaves a 48 port switch.

Since there is no discussion about WAN access, it is assumed to be a LAN environment only.

You could use a 2950 series Cisco switch or a Dell 5448 switch.

There really is not enough information.

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 12:48:53 PM »
Hey guys,
Sorry for the bump (I'm way out of the loop, no internet access at my new place yet!) but I was reading the question and wondered how you got to your figures knack - I count 14 desktops + 2 servers + 1 WAP that require a switchport (17 in total) then add the 5 expansion = 22 switchports total. A 24-port managed switch would do (the 24-port version of the Cisco 2950 Knack suggested would be fine), by my reckoning.

Because it is a switched LAN, it will be a physical and logical star topology (the switch in the center with all the workstations/WAP connecting to that directly. The only quirk is that the laptops would connect to the LAN using the WAP, so would be physically unconnected to the switch, but shown related to the WAP.

- Dag

KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 12:54:20 PM »
ACK!

Wireless laptops. I was counting devices...... getting old sux0rz

Yuppers a 24 port will be just fine.

eMo

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 11:25:55 AM »
hey guys,

We were discussing networking security and encryption in class today and he mentioned a firefox ad-on called "tor".
I downloaded and installed it but i can't seem to get it working....
Was just wondering if you guys have heard about it or have any idea to get it working.

ViciouZ

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 11:38:20 AM »
hey guys,

We were discussing networking security and encryption in class today and he mentioned a firefox ad-on called "tor".
I downloaded and installed it but i can't seem to get it working....
Was just wondering if you guys have heard about it or have any idea to get it working.

Not just a firefox addon, you need other stuff too. I think you can get it all here:

www.torproject.org

KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 11:55:58 AM »
Be careful about man-in-the-middle attacks with tor.

The Chinese use tor to get past the Great Firewall of China(tm)

eMo

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 01:44:01 PM »
I just want it to watch tv shows that fox streams off its website but im unable to due to the fact im Canadian :p
and could you elaborate about these man-in-the-middle attacks?

edit: i should probably just google it and read up on it :p

DrRickDaglessMD

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2009, 05:37:04 AM »
I'm only vaguely aware of the name and concept of Tor, a quick wikipedia search has some interesting info about it.

Seems like high-bandwidth applications like streaming TV might be a bit heavy for it (I'm not sure what the latency is like either, and depending on the streaming application you're using you might find that it's not consistent enough to stream smoothly).

Here in the UK our largest streaming IPTV services, BBC iPlayer and 4oD (Channel 4) are based on the Kontiki streaming media platform which is essentially bit-torrent based, so if your app is similar, you might have problems too.

If you are interested in network security/security in general, you should check out Bruce Schneier's blog: http://www.schneier.com/blog/
It's very interesting and almost always has thought-provoking and interesting articles on.

He's written an article on Tor here: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/09/anonymity_and_t_1.html

- Dag

KnacK

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Re: Need Networking Lab Ideas.
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2009, 06:30:49 AM »
http://www.gns3.net/

Check this out for a network simulator.

It's all freeware.