Hacking and Moving On

[b00nlander]

Screw grace periods.  Just give everyone a ban of 16/32 days for each day they have been caught hacking.  Only hacked once to try it out?  good, then you only get 16/32 days.  Hacked constantly?  Bye bye for a long time.

[atmays]

I think you completely misunderstood my post.  I'll quote the whole thing here.

Notice the quotes, and the fact that 32 days is typically the (first offense) ban time for cheating.  In other words, the grace is that, when caught, they only get banned for 32 days.  Sorry for not being more straightforward.  I thought everybody would have caught that.

[Bix]

Thanks atmays, we understand.

[idias]

Screw grace periods.  Just give everyone a ban of 16/32 days for each day they have been caught hacking.  Only hacked once to try it out?  good, then you only get 16/32 days.  Hacked constantly?  Bye bye for a long time.

I agree.
It variates on the case...If it is someone that is trying out and comes forward...light ban. But if it is someone that is "fighting" back and as used it several times...ban.

Like I said it depends on the type of case.

[mewa]

Second that. I really think this is a fine idea and a good way of distinguishing between light and heavy offenders.

It seems very appropriate that a player who has a undetectable hack, and uses it for a long time, should have an equally long punishment. I'd even say take it one step further and give twice the punishment for every day it was used in a match (or maybe on an hourly basis, if this doesn't make it too complicated). Then just through on multipliers for further additional acts. Like a 6x multiplier if you've distributed. A concrete and just system like this should cut down on the female dog factor and take some heat off jits and the committee.

[Bix]

I personally feel that people using 'undetectable' hacks should get longer bans. For example using modded maps and not expecting to get banned because they believed they were undetectable. Or using a ratbot. Is it really relevant if the person comes forward? Cheating is cheating. The only way they should be able to get time reduced is by providing conclusive evidence turning in other people that are cheating.

[Cameron]

The only way they should be able to get time reduced is by providing conclusive evidence turning in other people that are cheating.

Thats what has been done in 1-2 cases already.  Some people choose to do that, some people dont.

[Edgecrusher]

Perm ban. No questions asked if proved guilty.

It's the only way to teach anyone a lesson.

Also it repulses those ˝I just wanna test it out˝ sentences.

It's like when you kill a guy intentionally and than say: Please give me only manslaughter, I just tried it out to see wheather I like it or not.

A bit drastic but it proves a point.

[eMo]

Perm ban. No questions asked if proved guilty.

It's the only way to teach anyone a lesson.

Also it repulses those ˝I just wanna test it out˝ sentences.

If a cheater cheats once, whats to stop them from ban evading considering it's easy enough. You've obviously never played any games under the "security" of punkbuster lmfao

[m7feettall]

If a cheater cheats once, whats to stop them from ban evading considering it's easy enough. You've obviously never played any games under the "security" of punkbuster lmfao

For some probably not much. For others who are technically challenged, it would deter them.

I may not be able to stop someone who is highly determined from breaking into my house. But if I know someone has broken into my house I am not going to invite them back in 32 days and leave the doors open.

So assuming you are against cheating what would you do to lessen the cheating in the game?

[eMo]

You seem to have plenty of arguments for letting cheaters cheat. 

I'm a realist. Cheaters will always find a way. But in no way do I condone cheating.

So assuming you are against cheating what would you do to lessen the cheating in the game?

 I've played many fps games for the pc and one thing that I've always come across is cheating. No matter what you do their will be hackers... period. Probably one of the worst things you could do is give a talented coder a reason to cheat, cause he can and will make something that could possibly ruin the game. I don't think you can ever lessen cheating in this game, you come into this game as a noob and you see these people flying around all over the place making 1 ball shots and you think to yourself " god darn, i gotta get skills like that" so they turn to th3 h4x. Generations these days just seem to lack the determination or maybe the time to get good at this game.

Sure you could lengthen the time say 45 days, thats 45 days to create another hook, 45 days to get around the detection system.

OK SO WE PERM BAN THEM..YEAH!! .. except
1) its avoidable
2) Would you uphold the same penalties to previous hackers ?
3) What would define a perm ban? I'm pretty sure jitspoe has that already with his 1000+ day bans.

I just took a look down the banlist and everyone that deserved some hard time got it. Jitspoe has a system in place, you say it may not differ cheaters enough but its definitely stopped me from hacking and ruining my name and I'm sure it has stopped plenty of others aswell.

[m7feettall]

OK SO WE PERM BAN THEM..YEAH!! .. except
1) its avoidable
2) Would you uphold the same penalties to previous hackers ?
3) What would define a perm ban? I'm pretty sure jitspoe has that already with his 1000+ day bans.

A. It may be avoidable. But those who avoid it always have to be on the run or switching names in order to avoid more conventional means of detection. And therefore they are not able to easily take up a secure position in the community, build a name for themselves, etc. 

B. Some will not know how to avoid it.

C. You note that Jits already has 1k plus bans. So implement them more. Apparently he thought they were still worthwhile despite the ability of some to evade.

D. I agree that all PC FPS have hackers. That is no reason to invite hackers back or make it easy for them.

E. You also mention that you can give motivation to hackers....since Cuso for instance is already developing hacks he doesn't appear to need motivation.

F. As to what to do about previous bans you would have to simply move forward with the new policy.

 

[Edgecrusher]

eMo, just don't post to make post count. The reasons you give are laughable. Main thing is to perm ban all those morons that are using hax in matches. I believe most of people here don't really care if he hax in a pub. Of course, he should get banned to but when you use it in a match it's bigger problem. And if you perm ban that person he can avoid ban, but he wont get off with it in matches because our community is pretty small and he would be detected instantly.

1) its avoidable - yeah, he will rape pubs after, but not in matches
2) Would you uphold the same penalties to previous hackers ? - you can't do that but you can install new rules
3) What would define a perm ban? I'm pretty sure jitspoe has that already with his 1000+ day bans. - that's considered as perm ban - no reason why that shouldn't be raised to 10k

So yeah, perm ban. Period.

[eMo]

E. You also mention that you can give motivation to hackers....since Cuso for instance is already developing hacks he doesn't appear to need motivation.

Cuso did what he did outa curiosity of his own skill. He had no intention of distributing or playing with his HOOK. If you don't know the difference than i suggest you stop bothering me with you're posts please. I wasn't relating to Cusoman but to other previous hackers ... Where do you think the modded maps came from? Probably someone trying to get back at the community for his lengthy ban maybe?

eMo, just don't post to make post count. The reasons you give are laughable. Main thing is to perm ban all those morons that are using hax in matches.

I know exactly what I'm talking about sir, I have years of gaming experience to see how games have dealt with hackers.

Please don't just jump on the bandwagon, I am in no way sticking up for cheaters. I'm merely expressing the other point of view.
You tell me not to post for my post count, you're the one in the last 2 threads CAPS'N PERM BAN and all you can do is re-iterate that m7 said.

[m7feettall]

Cuso did what he did outa curiosity of his own skill. He had no intention of distributing or playing with his HOOK. If you don't know the difference than i suggest you stop bothering me with you're posts please. I wasn't relating to Cusoman but to other previous hackers ... Where do you think the modded maps came from? Probably someone trying to get back at the community for his lengthy ban maybe?

He did play with his hook.

By what he told Bix he did in fact help others set up wallhacking and ratbot.  He told Bix he didn't use any of them. We know now that last part at least was not true.

And even in the thread where he confessed he was still hinting around that some of his versions might have been undetectable.

I am pretty sure at this point he did not distribute the wall hack he made, because he is not yet sure which version was detectable. But from the account of Bix it appears he already did help with usage of hacks that he thought were not detectable. And he seemed eager to find out if there were versions of his hack that could not be detected.

So your portrayal of him as just a curious little inventor is not matching up.  He cheated multiple times, made a cheat, helped set up cheats and only made his big confession once it was discovered his cheat was detectable. He then asked for mercy for other cheaters for a time.


Now it seems you have more info than some of us about who is releasing these modified maps and perhaps TO WHOM they are being released.

If you are against cheating then feel free to pm Jits and tell all you know if you have not already done so.

Now as to previous hackers, if lifetime bans are pointless why did Jits impose lifetime bans on anyone?

[eMo]

And yet by what he told Bix he did in fact help others set up wallhacking and ratbot.

I don't know if that's true or not. I don't care. Bix could of made that up for all we know.

And even in the thread where he confessed he was still hinting around that some of his versions might have been undetectable.

Which I believe he is turning it into Jitspoe to strengthen his Detection system.

Now it seems you have more info than some of us about who is releasing these modified maps and perhaps TO WHOM they are being released.

Doesn't matter, the modified content is detected and people will get whats coming to them.

I never said lifetime bans were pointless. I just said IF people WANTED to they COULD get around it. Doesn't actually mean someone would waste their time ban evading just to play a free online game and if they did congrats jits on creating such an addicting game.

[m7feettall]

I don't know if that's true or not. I don't care.

So since you don't care if he helped others hack it doesn't matter?

It undercuts your idea that he is a helpful little inventor.

Which I believe he is turning into Jitspoe to strengthen his Detection system.

You believe...has it happened yet?

If he is such a nice guy that he was just trying to help out Jits all along why not tell Jits he was exploring possible exploits to help patch them instead of using hacks and getting caught an only then confessing?

Doesn't matter, the modified content is detected and people will get whats coming to them.

Did you even bother reading the other 5 pages?

Indeed I read all 5 pages, much of which was people making excuses for hackers.

And it does matter. If you know who the second-tier distributors are then you can help in giving them their due. Distribution under Jits' system still counts for more than hacking. And you already went on record defending Jits' current system.

[Edgecrusher]

I know exactly what I'm talking about sir, I have years of gaming experience to see how games have dealt with hackers.

Please don't just jump on the bandwagon, I am in no way sticking up for cheaters. I'm merely expressing the other point of view.
You tell me not to post for my post count, you're the one in the last 2 threads CAPS'N PERM BAN and all you can do is re-iterate that m7 said.

As for 1 I didn't used caps in either of my post so no need to set up a scene to make your point there.

2nd you started to quote me, I gave you my opinion and now you are saying that I'm to dumb to make a state of my own, that I have to copy what M7 said - no offense to you mate - I didn't even read what he said because I kinda figured it out when I flied over his post.

You pointed what's conserning you - that they can evade ban, we gave you our opinion on that, so why do you insist on pointing out your thoughts over and over again? If you have another argument please do.

[eMo]

You pointed what's conserning you - that they can evade ban, we gave you our opinion on that, so why do you insist on pointing out your thoughts over and over again? If you have another argument please do.

KAY, this is my last post since you guy's are eating my studying time.

nothings going to change, every time a situation comes up about this atleast 3 threads are opened crying about it and wanting longer ban times. Nothings ever changed. "Grown" men need to stop crying about a free game.

[Edgecrusher]

KAY, this is my last post since you guy's are eating my studying time.

nothings going to change, every time a situation comes up about this atleast 3 threads are opened crying about it and wanting longer ban times. Nothings ever changed. "Grown" men need to stop crying about a free game.

If you think it's irrelevant than don't post. I haven't posted on these forums for months, I only posted if I caught cheater. So let us ˝grown˝ man ask and discuss longer ban times and you go and study, much better than post here (not ironical about it). And why does everyone when a discussion is opened calls it crying? Do you want for instance lower taxes? Yeah? Well don't go crying to your government demanding them, keep it in yourself, it's much more efficient.