Author Topic: Review of ban penalties and their effectiveness (Read 7444 times)

m7feettall · « **on:** February 25, 2009, 12:26:44 AM »

Hacking appears to be an ongoing reality in DP. Bix's thread again put attention on the matter, but it dealt with the issue of a grace period which was a misunderstanding of Jitspoe's words. So this thread is more focused on the length of bans.

For those unaware of the system for calculating bans that Jitspoe has used for some time, the official statement reads as follows:

Quote

First-offense bans are typically 32 days. The ban length doubles each time you get caught.

Do you think that is the right number? Is it working to discourage cheating? Should it be different? How would you punish bans?

Show us your system, or comment on the current.

What factors should impact ban time?
-use in matches?
-use by active clan members?
-coming forward?
-cooperating in taking down others?
-turning over demos?
others?

eMo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:12:01 AM »

How about we leave jitspoe alone for once and stop complaining. Every time someone gets caught people go and make like 3+ threads trying to get this game changed and I'm pretty sure nothing has been changed to this point. The rules are the rules and people will always go out of there way to break said rules. I doubt lengthening the ban time would differ any cheaters because odds are their going to do it anyways.

Cheating is nothing new, theirs a system and penalties in place for these reasons so just let it run its course.

EDIT: I'm sick of you MEN crying. Things are being handled maybe not at the pace you would like but I'm sure as much time is being put into handling these cases as the commitee and jitspoe can spare.

coLa · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:15:41 AM »

I say change the ban time to PERMANENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAWR!

blaa · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:11:13 AM »

Quote from: coLa on February 25, 2009, 01:15:41 AM

I say change the ban time to PERMANENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAWR!

+1

m7feettall · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:06:10 AM »

Quote from: eMo on February 25, 2009, 01:12:01 AM

Cheating is nothing new, theirs a system and penalties in place for these reasons so just let it run its course.''

Running its course meant that Cuso could cheat again, this time using multiple cheats, developing a cheat and if Bix's account is to be believed, help people set up wall hacks and ratbots.

The game did not benefit by just letting that run its course.

Quote

EDIT: I'm sick of you MEN crying. Things are being handled maybe not at the pace you would like but I'm sure as much time is being put into handling these cases as the commitee and jitspoe can spare.

Discussing issues is not crying.

MyeRs · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2009, 06:36:00 AM »

He never helped set up ratbots and wallhacks. Notice he never got banned for a ratbot? How would he no so much about it? He has 64 days as it should be... He wallhacked and it was his second offence. What is unjust about it? The ban times have been set, he accepted his ban and it was his second time. So 64. The first ban is 1 month.

It's all happening cause people think cusoman should have a longer ban? Please somebody tell me, Whats the difference if somebody used 'zgh/modded content' or 'made their own wallhack' Either way you cheated and wallhacked. He deserves what he has, he didn't put up a fight and took his ban. He appologized, cause he doesn't want to come back in 2 months with people hating him.

That being said, i don't find the ban times to short, or to long. There in a pretty good area right now. 1 month for using a hack in a free online game. Whats wrong with that? Then it doubles each offence.

I don't think that their is a difference between using it in matches/pubs etc.. I think you used it once and get caught, 32 days. If you use it 100 times and get caught, 32 days. Cause it's still your first time getting caught. Why change things now? Its just my opinion that it is good where it's at.

KnacK · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2009, 07:20:58 AM »

The way things have been going lately I'm all for a perm ban on hackers.

Henkka · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:00:04 AM »

eMo said everything necessary.

m7feettall, you don't have to make five threads about the same subject. I would consider that crying. If jitspoe doesnt want to change the ban lengths after all the threads, wouldn't it be the time to let go?

S8NSSON · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:42:03 AM »

I support the per ban.

On the subject of hacking vs creating a hack...creating a hack is much worse.
People can't hack if they're not created. A person with the skills to create a hack, and then doing so, is exponetially more dangerous to the community than someone that simply obtains a hack. What's to say the creator won't just continue on with his work knowing that his current version of the hack was detected? Oh wait...that's right...he said he wouldn't. We'll take his word for it on that one. Afterall, he is completely honest and trustworthy...besides the creating and using of hacks.

I think creator of hack should face a much much stricter punishment.
The hack creator goes forward with malice and fore thought. The hack creator maliciously knows what he/she is doing, and must put conscious effort into their creation. The hack creator does this all the while KNOWING he/she has one goal in mind...to CHEAT.

If it weren't for the creators there would be no hacks.

My 32 cents.

eMo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:28:36 AM »

Quote from: S8NSSON on February 25, 2009, 08:42:03 AM

I think creator of hack should face a much much stricter punishment.
The hack creator goes forward with malice and fore thought. The hack creator maliciously knows what he/she is doing, and must put conscious effort into their creation. The hack creator does this all the while KNOWING he/she has one goal in mind...to CHEAT.

If it weren't for the creators there would be no hacks.

In Cusomans case I believe his intent was outa pure curiosity if he could actually hook the functions of the game. He did and now he gets to serve time for his accomplishment. Sure he created a hack but if he turns said hack into jitspoe, the games cheat detection just becomes that much stronger.

I know you're an old timer S8N but can you honestly say that if cheaters got a perm ban would you actually make a comeback to this game, or are you just trolling outa boredom and throwing your dimes of wisdom in where its obvious you're out of the loop?

m7feettall · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:53:00 AM »

Quote from: S8NSSON on February 25, 2009, 08:42:03 AM

I support the per ban.

On the subject of hacking vs creating a hack...creating a hack is much worse.
People can't hack if they're not created. A person with the skills to create a hack, and then doing so, is exponetially more dangerous to the community than someone that simply obtains a hack. What's to say the creator won't just continue on with his work knowing that his current version of the hack was detected? Oh wait...that's right...he said he wouldn't. We'll take his word for it on that one. Afterall, he is completely honest and trustworthy...besides the creating and using of hacks.

I think creator of hack should face a much much stricter punishment.
The hack creator goes forward with malice and fore thought. The hack creator maliciously knows what he/she is doing, and must put conscious effort into their creation. The hack creator does this all the while KNOWING he/she has one goal in mind...to CHEAT.

If it weren't for the creators there would be no hacks.

My 32 cents.

Indeed, he has been caught twice hacking, once taking time to make a hack. There is no argument that this was just on a whim.

Quote from: Henkka on February 25, 2009, 08:00:04 AM

eMo said everything necessary.

m7feettall, you don't have to make five threads about the same subject. I would consider that crying. If jitspoe doesnt want to change the ban lengths after all the threads, wouldn't it be the time to let go?

Nope. Time goes on. People have new evidence to consider. The more clan folks we have cheating and developing cheats the more evidence we have that the current system does not deter cheaters.

Quote from: MyeRs on February 25, 2009, 06:36:00 AM

He never helped set up ratbots and wallhacks. Notice he never got banned for a ratbot? How would he no so much about it?

Why did he say it to Bix then?

People can run things offline and not be caught, so it is certainly possible for him to know how it works. And he was caught walling and stated to Bix he had helped set that up too.

MyeRs · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:10:04 PM »

Would this be considered evidence? And how long would this person deserve?
Just a question: I have logs of somebody distributing an Ratbot, and explaining how to get wallhacks. I haven't been sure whether to post or not, but would it get taken seriously? Cause i have noticed logs aren't sufficent proof. But he did distribute it. I have logs and you could probably ask an IRC Operator to verify the pm's. So just want feedback as to if it's worth letting the logs to the community to see 'Even the older players are part of ruining the game' To prove bix wrong about 'The new generation' ruining the game.

lilb990 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:17:03 PM »

It depends really Myers. When bix had those logs on vent they were half cut off and etc. So no one knows really if it were true (which it wasn't true they were fake) But from now on we should get some committee members to check with IRC Operators to verify the logs and saying yes this convo. actually happened.

MyeRs · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:21:09 PM »

So if i got the IRC Operator to check the conversation it would be legit? It went something like this:
'x' says: Those newbies don't no how to use a ratbot.
'y' says: lol
'x' says: [Insert Link]
'x' says: Thats what you gotta do, undetectable.
Then later in the convo he explains how to make undetectable wallhacks. ' Those are just what the remember off the top of my head ill get the logs later if it will be taken seriously. And if it was taken serious, how long of a ban would 'x' get? And would 'y' Get banned for giving me the logs?

lilb990 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:26:17 PM »

It would be legit, but i said a COMMITTEE Member would have to ask that IRC operator like this

Committee member: Did myers ask you to verify those logs about so and so?
IRC Operator: Yes he did those logs are valid and he did have that convo with so and so
Committee member: Ok thanks.

From that point you can see that it would help out the committee. Because when people distribute it happens mostly on IRC.

cusoman · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:41:55 PM »

Lets get some things straight.

1. I DID NOT DISTRIBUTE MY HACK

2. I knew some mild c++, and I was curious. It was stupid. I realize that. I'm banned.

3. Someone explain why me being banned is being scrutinized far more seriously then any other ban?

4. I did infact intend to turn my Hack into Jitspoe. This was after i was banned, i thought i might as well help detection since I'm fairly convinced that some of my versions were not detected. This is not a hidden message that Im distributing hacks, this is me attempting to pm jitspoe about the hack i made. It was incredibly basic, and I want it patched. And for the record I did pm jitspoe on irc the day I was banned, and I have yet to get ahold of him.

5. What bix says is partially true and partially false.
I did discuss with bix the fact that I knew of multiple people hacking, and i did discuss with him that I also knew how to set these hacks up. However when I told him i did not hack, that was true, because IT had been a while since i did use the modified walls, and when i did i only used it a few times!

6. Number of days of truthful memory that I have hacked:

6-8 (can't exactly remember how many days I used the modified walls, but I know i used my own hack for 3 days.)

7. I have not been hacking for months. I hacked like 3 months ago for a very small portion of time, then stopped because it was wrong. After being provoked by the community because of the intense hacking, and because I knew some c++, I wondered how hard it would be to code a hack. Guess wut, It wasn't hard. I got caught up with it, and am now banned.

8. About the 2nd offense:

If anyone even cared to read about how I was banned the first time they would realize that I did not hack the first time, and instead made a stupid mistake while being extremely new at this game.

9. Am i honestly that different from other hackers? I hacked and feel horrible. I would never do it again, and intend to come back clean after my ban time is served.

I shall now sit back as the community searches for hidden messages, evil intents, paraphrases and selectively reads my once again sincere post. I am ashamed of what i have done. But regardless, I shall be flamed.

-Cusoman

lilb990 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:45:25 PM »

You actually WANT to get hacks detected not like other hackers, they want to use the hacks so i kinda do believe you want to get it detected cause you've talked with me many times of getting these detected.

IronFist · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:05:03 PM »

Quote from: lilb990 on February 25, 2009, 02:45:25 PM

You actually WANT to get hacks detected not like other hackers, they want to use the hacks so i kinda do believe you want to get it detected cause you've talked with me many times of getting these detected.

I'm pretty sure it was detected just fine. Jit has no reason to comment on the detection in cheat reports, since it only helps VS express alchemists refine their designs. As it is, DP is pretty safe from people swapping a few lines of code.

lilb990 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2009, 07:40:33 PM »

Quote from: IronFist on February 25, 2009, 05:05:03 PM

I'm pretty sure it was detected just fine. Jit has no reason to comment on the detection in cheat reports, since it only helps VS express alchemists refine their designs. As it is, DP is pretty safe from people swapping a few lines of code.

He usually does comment on the detections Ironfist.

IronFist · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:21:14 PM »

Quote from: lilb990 on February 25, 2009, 07:40:33 PM

He usually does comment on the detections Ironfist.

You're right man -- I am indeed wrong:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fdplogin.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Fboard%3D11.0+modified+client

So, what this indicates is that cusoman carefully planned out this cheat. Getting around the cheat detection requires a small bit detective work -- it's a significant time investment. What I think we have on our hands is a really dedicated cheater. I'm glad you pointed this out, since he was merely a run-of-the-mill cheat creator before. With your assertion, we can be sure that banning him for at least 32 days is justified.

Thanks, bro.