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[Delphi]

Ain't that a long time?

nope.
You need almost the same time on pb_renoir, carp and pb_pforest.

[magalhaes]

Well the speed jump in pb_renoir and pb_pforest is much easier wich makes all the difference. And when going from flag1 to flag2 in pb_pforest its impossible to fail some jump, thus taking twice the time

I think it's a bad map and that second flag is especially badly placed. But if you guys like it who am I...

[aircrew]

I was interisteng about it, so I took some time and test it.
pbcup_renoir (jump from 1 to 2)- 5seconds
carpathian(bunker)-6seconds
pbcup_pforest(small bridge ramp jump)-4seconds
zpar11_beta-(double to box, then double to second)-8seconds
So on zpar it´s slowest, but thats just the fastest way, if you don´t do any trick jump it´s the same time on all these map I think.
I don´t think this is a bad map, but I personally like pbcup_pforest or carpathian or pbcup_renoir much more.

[Rick]

If it takes so long to get to 2 from 1, go into the 'high bd' and jump straight to it and then drop to 1. OR Do speedjump to 2, from the hump.

[jitspoe]

u can do it with doublejumps

Those are still trick jumps.  Most players can't do that, and even if they can, the double jump path is pretty slow.  Really, all the main gameplay objectives (flags and capture points) should be easily accessible to a person playing the game for the first time.

[Fitz]

Way to attack my clan specifically. I didn't say anything about you or your clan and I was purposefully ambiguous to avoid bringing our differences to the forums.  I have many screenshots of playing your team on that map. I see you in 1 match there, which brings me to my next point.  I believe DT said "Suggestions from people that have matched on it will be taken the most seriously as that is ultimately what it is meant for."

I do have a couple of screenshots showing 40 point plus deficits against UR there in less the 12 minutes. Don't really know how that happens when all we do is "sit high and peg people". I believe the fact that we have 60 of 64 points on one of those screenshots from capping proves conclusively that it is a multipath map.  There are several combinations of paths available whether low or high, I truly don't understand how it "eliminates the more than one path mentality".

I did not doubt the fact that you kicked our ass everytime we played you there; I was actually complementing you for it. s2k is by far the most experienced clan in regards to this map, so the validity of your judgements is unquestionable. We did, however, play you on the map and we know how you play.  The only time you lost to us was when I sat on 2 and camped the whole map. In regards to your playing style, You sit high and peg people no matter what "combination of paths" people take. Once you shoot one or two people, you rush in on the remaining member(s), grab, cap, etc. What I was trying to say but you obviously took as a personal attack, is that if somebody sits high and camps, it's virtually impossible to rush no matter what path is taken. Again, there goes the whole multipath approach.

Yes, once you get closer to base there's multiple paths, but there's ultimately one path that all these combinations end near and that's the hump which is easily campable via that high bridge - don't deny it.

As for matching on it, I've matched plenty of times on it, maybe not against you but certainly against others. Not to mention the time I've put in to finding out random jumps... considering nobody in my clan can jump properly meaning I have to find all the jumps myself.

Uhm...they can? You can hit 2 from the hump.

You have to be a lot closer to the flag to hit 2; the person sitting there has time to peg you as you approach it. I know because I did it.

[atmays]

considering nobody in my clan can jump properly meaning I have to find all the jumps myself.

Where do you get your facts from sir?

[MosEz]

Those are still trick jumps.  Most players can't do that, and even if they can, the double jump path is pretty slow.  Really, all the main gameplay objectives (flags and capture points) should be easily accessible to a person playing the game for the first time.

ya so he should make a path like delphi said.

[Viper]

btw u can grab the 2nd flag without any trick or doublejump in like 8 seconds und with doublejump in 4-5.

EDIT : demo : 1st to 2nd flag without any trickjump/doublejump

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[Gold_Leader]

The pbcup series of maps are some of the best match maps that are in the game.  I was hoping zpar11 would keep this trend of game play and difficulty.  However the only problem i have with this map is the singular route to 1st flag.  pforest has ways around this singularity.  Pbcup_renior has multiple paths to both flags.  Zpar11 doesn't compete with these maps in my mind.  If it wasn't so one way to both flags then this would also be an excellent match map like the others because of its size and complexity.  The trick jumps don't bother me one bit it's what makes this game more challenging to some of the more seasoned players.  Which is why when DT makes a map it is usually some of the best quality maps that this game holds for matching.  If there were more routes to the 1st flag then possibly this map would live up to some of your better maps.  Just my 2 cents.

[fasian]

However the only problem i have with this map is the singular route to 1st flag.

I can think of 3.

[Rick]

I can think of 3.

-Haystack to 1.(Speed)
-left side
-Ride side
-Drop from the 'high bd'
-Triple boxes.

rah.

[magalhaes]

Those pillars supported by boxes look good!

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[SuKO-RU]

To what point in base though?  Would this add an extra path to 2 having it open up on the back side of the base or with enough speed to reach it from where ever it is?  Or would it just plop you down near or on 1?

EDIT: Saw the "almost in base" just now ^_^ how would making it exit ALMOST in base change the whole "single path" issue?

[Gold_Leader]

I can think of 3.

-Haystack to 1.(Speed)
-left side
-Ride side
-Drop from the 'high bd'
-Triple boxes.

rah.

Neither one of you actually understood what I was talking about.  DT understood on the money exactly what I referring to.  Pretty much once you are IN THE BASE there is a very limited choice on how to get the first flag.  You can go left or you can go right basically.  I was saying that possibly a back path to the 1st flag would make things more interesting, or maybe a few more paths that lead out to in base.

[Justinph5]

I'm thinking about extending the side route that goes from high mid to the hump so that it exits almost into the base.

I like the exit where's its at, it gives a good speed to get to flag from left. Unless you extended it to where a good jump would be able to reach the main bunker in front of flag.

And GLeader, there's 3 if you count dropping from high, but thats pointless instead of going for 2.

[Spartax]

r_speeds are bad .... =/

[Sawy]

r_speeds are bad .... =/

It's not easy to do a map like that without high r_speeds. Maybe dt could make them more slow, but if he can't, it's not really a big deal. This map can be playing with theses r_speeds, like renoir is played.