grenades in 4v4

[Shreds]

I'm wondering if grenades will be in 4v4.

I'd like them to be in for quite a few reasons:
-they break a stale game when one team blocks entrances (camps)
-a well placed grenade is often as much skill as winning rounds with a vm68
-they were part of the game since i started playing
-grenades in 4v4 matches are used as strategy and not wasted. Unlike pub games where people grab and throw at random most of the time.

Concerns I have:
-Impact-> I find these like the BFG of pball. It takes little skill to use and takes away from true organized gameplay. a defending team in a base has an unlimited about of these BFG shots and the attacking team is FORCED into running into them.

Final thoughts:
Grenades are a HUGE part of gameplay. I feel they should be included.
If they are, I feel impact grenades need to be removed.
If grenades are included and people feel impact grenades should be part of the game, its still better then no grenades. However, I suggest careful consideration when allowing impact (read "BFG") grenades.

----

Second question
-Where are smoke grenades? is there a video problem that makes this unfair for some people or do people feel they shouldn't be involved in gameplay?
-If there is no graphical problem with smoke grenades, I cant even begin to express my disappointment that these are not in the game.

[jitspoe]

Bain said something about including grenades once the proper client side support is implemented for primed grenades (read: when build 16 is released).

[XtremeBain]

Sorry Shreds, but grenades will not be included in the 4on4 tourney for the following reasons:
- There isn't a cvar/option to disable to command for the impact grenades in the current serverside pball library (and the PBCup website requires the current library due to functionality found in the STDLogging).
- The current grenades spawn way too fast, and this factor combined with the impact grenades offer way too much advantage to the defense, especially in maps of this size.

Otherwise I agree with all the points that you've mentioned.  I would like to include either fixed-timed grenades or primed grenades as part of the 4on4 but the grenade options that are currently available aren't something that I think will benefit gameplay.
I will almost certainly include primed grenades when and if they've been implemented properly in Build16(currently you have to use a couple aliases, and they're not backwards compatible with normal servers).  One of the benefits of the primed grenades are that if you're going to prime it, it will interrupt your ability to shoot while priming.  Otherwise you can just tap the button and launch them like the current timed grenades.

I love the smoke grenades as well but eiii publically showcased his knowledge and tools here no the forms for eliminating the puffs of smoke that the grenades create.  So the only option would be to distribute the hack to everyone who isn't using it now and go back to the way smoke grenades were in Q2 (where the screen gets polyblend'd lighter depending on distance from grenade) or let cheaters cheat with a big advantage.  I share your disappointment as well since I believe that the recent smoke grenades have been one of the best features that the PB2 client has introduced.

[Shreds]

* Shreds sighs

thanks for the answers. wish they were what i wanted

[loial21]

BLAH!!!! This stinks of when the grenades and 300 hoppers were removed from e3rrt server. For all you have done bain, on this I must say BOOO. This is a personal opinion issue.

Just another reason for voting.

[Reed]

Im with bain on this, until impact nades can be controlled serverside then they should be removed.

[loial21]

I just think its logical to allow votes on such things.

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[loial21]

Logicaly speaking of course, do most elections have 100% voter turn out? So why vote in the first place? We both know that anwser.

Well as the old saying goes "If you dont vote, you don't have a say". Just becuase some people choose not to vote does not make the vote illogical or uneeded.

Not only should thier be a vote for every thing but there should be votes on what to vote on as well.

Just a bit o' loial's logic.

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[Playah]

well, im the same opinion as bain. To Loial: It seems that you´re the only one being against this decision. I think this decision is pretty logical because when you would let the impacts implemented it wouldnt be much about aiming (aiming---> ego-shooter ---> for what some people have chosen this game) and the game-play would get another "direction"/feeling than it has previously been. If you (and not many more of this community; im not talkin about 3-4 persons) dont like this "game-play" - change then you maybe can look also for an other game which is more like your flavour.

[loial21]

This is not a rant.

Taco,

I am not delusional enough to think my vote matters much in a electorial college voting system. We should all know where a popular vote got Gore. Yes its was off topic. Not to belabor your assumption of what I know I what I don't, but where did I every mention my vote 'matters' in this country?  I was speaking of voteing in general. **edited**


The point of not being able to vote on settings and maps is illogical and hardly fair in my opinion, thats all.  I just strongly feel that a vote with this size of community can be done with fun and bring new ideas to the forefront. Moreover I dont see the harm in voting, other than the hassel and and mabey some hurt feelings for the loosers.


To bain's point of not allowing certain equipment I say the following. Even if we were allowed to vote I am pretty sure that the instaburst would be voted out. I see them as a newer and tougher challeges to overcome. Not complain about.

Playah
Well in this case I will agree with everything you said. Can you agree to this? If your that good of a player it should not matter whats being thrown at you. Unless you dont want to be challenged in that way then fine I understand your hesistation. If you wanted this game to be about aim only then why not drop your gun never upgrade equipment (air / barrells / hoppers) and use the 10 paintballs the dp gods gave you and have at it in the 4v4.


Thanks for your time and brain cells.

-L

[Reed]

Seems to me like youre saying impact nades are part of the game, deal with it. If youre a good player you should be able to cope? I think its pretty much impossible to have any strategy to defend against impact nades, no matter how good you are. I could suggest its like saying 'hacking is part of the game, if youre good enough youll cope with it'  but this is a completely different context.
Allowing voting on everything would severely hinder the progress of the pbcup, although important things, such as the maplist, should have been voted for or at least influenced by the clans playing pbcup. Maybe there should be avote on what we should vote on.
If youre good enough youll learn to cope without grenades

[loial21]

I can cope with out them. I was hoping the better players could learn to cope with them instead of complaining about them.

Calling them a BFG is a great example. The weapon was not meant to be rapid fire. Nor was it meant to expend little plasma in the cells like the hyperblaster. Weapons like this are in all games. Low rate high yield. They 'the low rate / high yield weapons are most certainly harder to overcome when regarding strategy but NOT impossible. Alter your strategy. Really when was then last time in q2 when a map winner only used the bfg. As a matter of fact give me a hyperblaster vs a bfg anyday on any map. With no equipment respawns.

Now to Bains point of high respawn rate of grens. Meh I concede. But I thought that was adjustable.

[Playah]

loial: I think that nade-tossing isnt very funny because you dont have to have that much practise/precision as you gotta have with the gun to hit somebody. So i wouldnt make use of those nades because it takes the fun and the competition out of the game then. It takes the aiming out of the game. But when i wouldnt want to use them in those pbcup-matches who says that the others wont use them also? Nobody. So i Must use impacts too because the advantage for them would be too big.

PS: MY Greatest Complaint/ best solution for impact nades is: less paint-radius!